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Escape Clause - 12/3/2008 11:15:06 AM

Infinitesub

Posts: 3
Joined: 11/24/2007
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I wanted to ask the Dom(me)s/Masters as well as the subs/slaves of this site what were they're thoughts on the concept of a Dom/me providing an escape fund for a sub that comes halfway across country to live with them. Do agree or disagree with it? Is it something you use and/or require when dealing with a sub/slave?

Post #: 1

RE: Escape Clause - 12/3/2008 11:22:46 AM

OttersSwim

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Joined: 9/1/2008
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Hi there, and welcome to the forum.

You have posted this in 3 different areas. Just so you know, the Mods here discourage that, so don't be surprised if it is condensed down into a single topic. You might want to post where you would prefer it to be.

_____________________________

I am on a journey of authenticity and self.

(in reply to Infinitesub)

Post #: 2

RE: Escape Clause - 12/3/2008 11:45:50 AM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
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I personally believe it to be a very good idea, and have employed such a fund myself on several occasions. Anyone that relocates here across country or across the county is taking a chance that it may not work out, and I believe I should accept some of the consequences should that happen.

John

(in reply to Infinitesub)

Post #: 3

RE: Escape Clause - 12/3/2008 11:58:56 AM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
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For us, it depends on the circumstances. We don't bring someone to live directly in our household, so we let them know up front that, while we are in a 'probationary' period while we're determining whether this will work or not, they are responsible for maintaining their own domicile. We work our service and training around that person having a steady job, and we let them know that they probably want to make sure they'll like the area before relocating, in the even that things don't work out.

For someone who has reached the point where xhe's become a full-time servant (but not a bond-servant), we do have a savings system set up, in the event that the servant has to leave the household or chooses to move on after a period of time. For our bond-servants (a bond servant has typically been with us for 5+ years by the time they take this step), they are treated more like a spouse (in the same way that keepers would be), with legal protections put in place. Once they become a bond-servant, they become part of the family, and earn the right to inherit if anything happens to the Keepers and they can no longer be maintained by the House. If, however, they 'divorce' the household and break their bond, they basically leave with just what they came with.

In further answer to the OP's question... if this were a vanilla situation, and you were moving for a job, or to be closer to someone you were dating, would you expect the person or employer to set up a 'safety net' or 'savings account' for you in case it didn't work out? I wouldn't, and have (and would) accept the risks inherent in moving as part of the consideration for whether this particular relationship is worth making the move. Unless it worked out, I can't see having any onus on either party in terms of 'assurances' or 'guarantees'. In many ways, I don't see this as any different than moving for a new job or a potential lover. Everyone is taking a risk, and if a person isn't comfortable giving up where they are and setting out on the adventure of a move, with no promises aside from the opportunity to see if things work out once everyone is in the same place, then I think that perhaps that person shouldn't make the move.

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 4

RE: Escape Clause - 12/3/2008 12:17:12 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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I think Calla said it well. You wouldn't...hopefully...expect a vanilla boyfriend or girlfriend to make a monetary "set-aside" for you, would you? This is generally why visits and discussion take place before the step of moving ever does. When my girlfriend...who became my wife...considered moving to Minnesota and attending nursing college there while I was attending chiropractic college, we sat down and discussed many things. One of the things that was NOT said by her to me was: "Do you have money set aside so that I can go back home if it doesn't work?" When my second submissive moved here to be with me, it was understood before she ever did so that she was expected to have a job in place before she came here (or at least have a line on one) and that she was expected to share in at least some of the expenses. I paid for groceries and entertainment but she helped with utilities and rent on the apartment we chose. I believe in the idea that investment into what you BOTH want is an impetus to try to work things out, not just walk out and take the money and run.
Hell...there are plenty of people who will run with little or no explanation and without having the financial wherewithal to fall back on. Why even put the idea into the dealings between two people that "well, if it doesn't work OR if he gets too this or she gets too that or if someone better comes along, I always have the bucks to get out...and he/she paid for it".

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 12/3/2008 12:21:18 PM >

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

Post #: 5

RE: Escape Clause - 12/3/2008 12:28:18 PM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

You wouldn't...hopefully...expect a vanilla boyfriend or girlfriend to make a monetary "set-aside" for you, would you?

Actually, I have done the same in a (long ago) vanilla relationship in which I moved and took my girlfriend with me. So yeah, I'd expect to do this for anyone who is pulling up roots to be with me, regardless of lifestyle.

Not to be fully responsible for making her whole if things don't work out, but to do my share to make sure she can be put back on her feet in reasonably similar fashion to when I found her.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 6

RE: Escape Clause - 12/3/2008 12:34:02 PM

chamberqueen

Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline

It should definitely be discussed in advance. In some cases the Dom may not be able to afford it. In others he may not feel obligated. I moved to be closer to my Master (not live in the same home with him) and it was always understood that I would pay my own way which I gladly accepted.

_____________________________

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 7

RE: Escape Clause - 12/3/2008 12:34:03 PM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

You wouldn't...hopefully...expect a vanilla boyfriend or girlfriend to make a monetary "set-aside" for you, would you?

Actually, I have done the same in a (long ago) vanilla relationship in which I moved and took my girlfriend with me. So yeah, I'd expect to do this for anyone who is pulling up roots to be with me, regardless of lifestyle.

Not to be fully responsible for making her whole if things don't work out, but to do my share to make sure she can be put back on her feet in reasonably similar fashion to when I found her.

John

Would you expect the same from her (ie, to set aside enough money for you to get back on your feet in a 'reasonable fashion') if your relationship doesn't work out? Why or why not?

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 8

RE: Escape Clause - 12/3/2008 1:01:19 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Infinitesub

I wanted to ask the Dom(me)s/Masters as well as the subs/slaves of this site what were they're thoughts on the concept of a Dom/me providing an escape fund for a sub that comes halfway across country to live with them. Do agree or disagree with it? Is it something you use and/or require when dealing with a sub/slave?

She will provide it for herself. Everyone in my house holds up their end of the financial expenses. All potentials are made well aware of this early on. If they are not a trust fund baby, they will work. If they are expecting a free ride, my house is definately NOT the place for them.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Infinitesub)

Post #: 9

RE: Escape Clause - 12/3/2008 1:18:56 PM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
Status: offline

quote:

thoughts on the concept of a Dom/me providing an escape fund for a sub that comes halfway across country to live with them. Do agree or disagree with it?

My thought is subs should think through such moves very carefully and take responsibility for their own choices.

_____________________________

(in reply to Infinitesub)

Post #: 10

RE: Escape Clause - 12/3/2008 1:27:26 PM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

Would you expect the same from her (ie, to set aside enough money for you to get back on your feet in a 'reasonable fashion') if your relationship doesn't work out? Why or why not?

If I were the one leaving my home, my job, my friends and family, then you betcha I'd expect her to contribute to putting me back on my feet in a reasonable fashion should it not work out. When one partner moves like that, they accept a greater degree of the risk and consequences.

So for me, it only makes sense to distribute that risk and consequence more equitably. What others do is up to them.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

Post #: 11

RE: Escape Clause - 12/3/2008 1:48:45 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

I think everybody ought to have a savings account of their own to cover them for six months minimum in case of job loss, and two years is better. Beyond that if you propose to move cross country you ought to add a thousand to cover a moving van, assuming you can't just stuff your things in a car.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 12

RE: Escape Clause - 12/3/2008 1:51:15 PM

sexisubi

Posts: 373
Joined: 11/23/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

Hi there, and welcome to the forum.

You have posted this in 3 different areas. Just so you know, the Mods here discourage that, so don't be surprised if it is condensed down into a single topic. You might want to post where you would prefer it to be.

Oh my god!! i finally got to use that emote!!! :D :D well that made my day its the little things in life that make me a happy camper.

_____________________________

bound by love,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIvvaqUdDm8

(in reply to OttersSwim)

Post #: 13

RE: Escape Clause - 12/3/2008 3:14:35 PM

kiwisub12

Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline

Hehe - glad you are happy!

and if the dom can afford it, an escape clause is a good idea. I know for myself, it might well make the difference in moving, if i knew that if i needed to leave there was a few bob set aside so i wouldn't be broke when i got home. Having said that, i wouldn't move unless i was really sure that things were going to work out

.

(in reply to sexisubi)

Post #: 14

RE: Escape Clause - 12/3/2008 3:21:03 PM

DavanKael

Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
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It sounds like a dandy idea but I always have my own 'plan b' so that if things go south, I can take care of me and mine. :>
Afterall, if something hasn't worked out with someone, why would one inherently trust them to take care of you on the turning away?
Davan

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
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(in reply to kiwisub12)

Post #: 15

RE: Escape Clause - 12/3/2008 4:01:37 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

I moved to someone and at the time I was in no position that could be considered even secure financially. My (adult) son recently brain damaged, my illness... things were not at all stable and there was no way for me to be able to afford extra or to take part in much besides existing. I didn't move too fast and took my time, held out just existing until I felt I knew him well and we meet and then carried on a long distance relationship making plans. Since he had a business and property he could not move so it had to be me. Scary stuff there, but we did make a plan. I did have income.

Part of that plan was to put aside a certain amount each month for a year or two until we knew we would make it, so that I could replace all I gave up to move and could move along if things diddn't work. If we did work that money would fund one hell of a vacation to a romantic spot. I really trusted this man and how we did things. But this is where I learned the real truth of what grandma used to say. You don't know someone until you live with them. We had discussed my getting a place on my own, but for work reasons and his needing to hire someone, we just decided to go for it so I could be that someone.

Low and behold, I learn new lessons in passive aggressive behavior... yes even an old dog can learn new tricks! Oh dear... we haven't had time to put aside all that money. I just gave up most my belongings and moved to a place where I knew one person and oh shit! We had a plan for that too, but still... it was one hard place to be in!

I recommend always having enough that no one can get to, to at least be able to get 'home' or set yourself up. I did the background searches... checked him out well, knew him for some time and had meet and spent a good deal of time in person and still... So think smart because even when being smart... things can happen and it isn't easy even with a plan. The romantic stuff isn't harmed by being wise.

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No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to DavanKael)

Post #: 16

RE: Escape Clause - 12/3/2008 4:07:22 PM

ExKat

Posts: 300
Joined: 8/25/2008
Status: offline

I believe that having an escape fund is not only a smart idea, it's a pretty necessary one. If you're moving into a situation where you might have the need to 'escape', and you can't rely on someone else to help you in dire need (mom and dad, a good rich friend), then money needs to be set aside for that. However, I'm not sure why it's the Dom's job to provide it...unless the dominantwas funding the move entirely and expected the submissive to be his full-time slave (so she couldn't get a job), then the slave should have their own money set aside.

I don't see this as a strictly BDSM thing either...in any situation where a couple was moving across the country to be together, spending a good length of time and presumably cohabitating for the first time, then you have to plan for the possibility that it won't work out.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 17

RE: Escape Clause - 12/3/2008 4:39:09 PM

lovingpet

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I have my own little nestegg off to the side in the event of a terrible disaster. This is in my vanilla marriage and has absolutely nothing to do with the health of our relationship. I have been through having to walk away from a marriage and subsequently losing my spouse to death. There was no insurance, I had little income, and still had to manage supporting myself and my child. I chose to never be in that position again.

This money is mine. The account and assets are in my name only with beneficiaries listed in the event of my death. Only one other person knows about this money and the arrangements set upon it, and that person is not my husband or my children. It is a strongly interest bearing account and reasonably accessible upon being needed (this is a way to account for inevitable inflation and other expenses that may arise in the meantime). It is not a motherload of funds, but it is enough to start over if needed or maintain things for awhile. Sometimes I think the time has come to dip in, but I resist because there are only a few limited reasons I would use it, my spouse's death or the dissolution of our marriage by other means. Being broke isn't enough. Health issues aren't enough. It is for the REAL emergencies of life.

I don't think I would want anyone knowing of my escape plans, especially the person I just might be escaping from. I would think I would want all the funds I needed in place prior to moving even if that grossly delayed the move. I would insist on having my own money in the form of employment and separate banking accounts for a very long time after the move because of the lack of supports and other "comforts of home".

I also have all my important papers together (birth and death certificates, insurance items, deeds and titles, etc). This is in a safe deposit box that, again, only I know of and one other person. I don't have to collect these things from boxes as I am in the middle of a move or worse. They are organized, legal, and readily available. I also have such things as change of address forms and a listing of all my various everyday accounts such as bank accounts, telephone account, and the like available as well.

None of this is about trust. It is about being smart and ready when life throws you a curve. I learned the hard way, but I took the lesson. I don't expect someone else to take care of me. That is my job. If a dominant wanted to have a part, the money would be handed to me in cash prior to my arrival for me to use at my discretiion, but for that specific purpose. It would never be seen again and would be considered mine. I would treat it as I do these funds. The money will one day be used, the only question remaining is how or when.

lovingpet

(in reply to ExKat)

Post #: 18

RE: Escape Clause - 12/3/2008 4:46:46 PM

CountrySong

Posts: 554
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline

I believe in escape funds and more; but, then I'm a bit old fashioned because I also believe that the man should pay the bills and the woman should be able to work at home and be with the kids. (Places fire extinguisher on table for all the flames that will come from that comment!) By work I actually mean income producing activities not just palying momma and watching TV. (Now where did I put that other extinguisher?)

Also, I've seen too many sub/slave end up in really bad situations. I'm sure you have seen the adds on here that basically say - "Help I'm screwed and not in the nice way. Must move in a week or less. If you can help I'm yours."

Finally, with me it is about the LOVE more than the lifestytle. I think the saying goes - if you love someone let them go. If they come back they are yours. If not they never were. Life is to short to have to live it with someone you don't love.

(in reply to ExKat)

Post #: 19

RE: Escape Clause - 12/3/2008 5:15:49 PM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline

Ok, here's something to think about. Would you want to depend on someone with whom you weren't getting along to make sure that you were taken care of after everything fell apart?

My general philosophy is "make sure you can take care of yourself -- because when everything goes to hell in a handbasket, there isn't anyone else you can count on. Call me a cynic, but that's my take.

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to ExKat)

Post #: 20

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