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Future you see - 11/12/2008 8:46:14 PM   
rexrgisformidoni


Posts: 578
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline 		What sort of future do you see for the US if you live here? Or if you don't, what sort do you see for your own country or the world in general?

I see a slide towards semi chaos, 8 to 10 years of hard, lean times. Then hopefully, god willing if you believe in that sort of thing, things will turn around. maybe we'll all be nicer to each other. leave each other alone, or work toghther to solve some of the huge problems we face as a species. anyhow, I'd like thoughts. thanks, J


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RE: Future you see - 11/12/2008 9:02:15 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline 		I see one, maybe two years of economic recession (although not depression).  I see government efforts confounded, resulting in surging deficits without corresponding economic growth.

I see an anti-incumbency movement arising in either 2010 or 2012, as voters decide that since Democrat and Republican alike have screwed the pooch, its time to send the lot of them home and start from scratch.

I see America rediscovering her libertarian roots, as people remember that only individual man can be free, and that only individual man is possessed of the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.  And I see prosperity returning, as free men tend to be either a) industrious or b) quite dead.


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RE: Future you see - 11/12/2008 9:27:24 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

I see America rediscovering her libertarian roots, as people remember that only individual man can be free, and that only individual man is possessed of the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.  And I see prosperity returning, as free men tend to be either a) industrious or b) quite dead.



Optimist! 
Here's hoping you are right on the money! 

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


(in reply to celticlord2112)
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RE: Future you see - 11/12/2008 9:50:20 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		 

I see a whole generation tuned in like never before and engaged like never before.

I see a smarter ,sustainable approach to energy and land use.

I see neo-conservative ideals and ideas completely debunked and repudiated.

I see a new responsible attitude toward government with better stewardship and a less parasitical citizenry.

I see a future for my family`s offspring and for everyone`s as well.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to celticlord2112)
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RE: Future you see - 11/13/2008 8:30:19 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		I see some hard times, which if we still have it in us we can find the silver lining. I see some very hard times, so hard for example that not everybody will be able to even afford a TV set. This one has two silver lining almost because for one people won't be glued to the thing, and secondly people might get together in neighborhoods and get to know one another as some invites go out to people to come and watch the show. Like the old days when someone was the first family on the block to get a TV, and then later a color TV.

I see more carpooling, the use of public transportation, people getting together to buy things collectively such as a side of beef and taking it to a local butcher. I see more home gardens with people developing a system of barter to get what they need.

I see tough times, but at the same I see necessity is the Mother of invention. People will find a way to survive, and we will have stories to tell the young, much as the eighty something year old guy down the street has for me.

I am pretty sure the bailouts will fail, they always do. But borne from this will be people again learning to survive. Subsequently the mechanism of society will be repaired, not only to be more fair, but more reliable. We might see auto manufacturers making money on cars, not cards.

We might see the declne of the entertainment industry, and families will have discussions again instead of renting three DVDs every night. Not that I am against the entertainment industry, but I don't see them looking for a bailout,,,,,,,,yet.

Sure there is plenty of doom and gloom to go around, but sooner or later the sun rises.

I think we need these changes, and alot of them rest with the People. If we have any luck at all, sometime in the future people will realize that we are the true source of wealth, and we'll learn once again how to act like it.

T

PS, just so you know, I am not talking about me nor anyone in particular. We are not normal here, something in which I actually take some pride. I have been rolling in money and also have been homeless. I have never owned a DVD player. My TV is only on for the PC sound, like music or something on youtube. The only things on TV I pay any attention to are the weather report, Jeopardy and Millionaire, and once in a great while Are You Smarter Than A Fifth Grader ?

Ironic as it may sound, let people not afford  a TV. Let the family set at a table and Dad say "This reminds me of a time when I was a kid", and talk about it.

All most people want to do is play. Play and or be entertained. We had a science guy come to the school when I was a kid. Not the same as Bill Nye, and not overdone to be entertaining. That was more entertaining to me than any entertainment because it was real and demonstrated laws of physics. That was a long time ago. So I was never normal.

When I was young, we heard the words "Turn the TV on". The reason you don't hear that today so much is because it is already on. In some cases 24/7. Think about it.

T

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: Future you see - 11/13/2008 9:19:47 AM   
housesub4you


Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		Term..

What do you mean can't afford a TV set?  There are TV's in every home now, it's the new format people will not be able to afford.

Gee just think one day we will be able to tell our grandchildren, "I remember when TV was free and supported by Ads alone" 

Ahhh...come Feb.  the days of free TV will be gone

As for what I see, I do not think the hard times will last to long, perhaps a year or two. 

I see national health coverage, sure everyone says the government should not.  But that thought loses strength when the government is bailing out everyone these days and taking ownership of publicly traded businesses.  The governement owns more "for pofit" business under Bush than ever before.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: Future you see - 11/13/2008 9:39:13 AM   
shivermetimbers


Posts: 2060
Joined: 6/7/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

I see America rediscovering her libertarian roots, as people remember that only individual man can be free, and that only individual man is possessed of the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.  And I see prosperity returning, as free men tend to be either a) industrious or b) quite dead.



Optimist! 
Here's hoping you are right on the money! 


Here Here!!!!

_____________________________

I love you Deanna, you make every day a better day.

If we descended from monkeys and apes, why are there still monkeys and apes?

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RE: Future you see - 11/13/2008 10:15:54 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		There will be an even wider gap between the 'haves' and 'have nots' as the 'haves' stop investing or generating new businesses; eliminating the possibility of creating more 'haves'.

I see an era where more personal liberties are encumbered by the 'good intent' police who only want to follow democratic ideals when is suits their agenda.

I see an increase in the current 40% of the population who don't pay anything in taxes but expect everything as an entitlement.

I think the religious fervor for PE Obama will continue, and any critic will be labeled a 'racist' making the word a modern day version of 'heretic'

I see PE Obama's intelligence, focus, and, dare I say pragmatism, causing some of his disciples, especially in the Democratic Party, to lose faith in him. He's already tipped his hand a bit regarding illegal workers and following President Bush's program of issuing another 'economic stimulus check'.

I see stagnation because the government can't print enough money fast enough.

I see a mass exodus many successful major corporate entity to some other county. 

I see a dead economy when, with too many failures to 'bail out' there aren't enough 'successes' left to pay the tab.

I see a place where what you eat, what you watch, and what you listen to must be approved by some governmental monitoring agency and be politically correct.

I see a need and a use for all those guns that people are buying for self protection.

I see the repeat of prior historically documented failure of attempting pseudo-socialism.

I see a second generation where children can only remember fondly what it was like to have the opportunity to exceed the success of their parents.
quote:

ORIGINAL: shivermetimbers
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
I see America rediscovering her libertarian roots, as people remember that only individual man can be free, and that only individual man is possessed of the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.  And I see prosperity returning, as free men tend to be either a) industrious or b) quite dead.

Optimist! 
Here's hoping you are right on the money! 

Here Here!!!!


I'll also drink that 'Kool-Aid'!

(in reply to shivermetimbers)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Future you see - 11/13/2008 12:15:47 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Despite what has happened with the financial institutions, everything will get back to some semblance of normality, or at least we will be told it has. We will from that period onwards continue to be hood winked as we have always been. Any fluctuations from this mess up, the public will bear as usual, whilst those that continue to play with the economy will always be ok.

We might see a search for a scapegoat, but as to anyone being, 'found' and perhaps punished, I would say that is a very long shot, but who ever or whatever is the cause, you can bet they will escape any forms of justice and if they don't the punishment will not be anything to write home about, as people with money tend to look after their own.

Military ventures, well they exist and despite the damage done to people, people are of no consequence, there is always another person born, but the revenue that is created for those that thrive on war, they will always receive a tidy income. If we do pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq, there will always be another conflict on the horizon, the media do well to whip up public sympathy for a cause before 'police actions' come to be.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Future you see - 11/13/2008 12:21:54 PM   
michaelOfGeorgia


Posts: 4253
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

What sort of future do you see for the US if you live here? Or if you don't, what sort do you see for your own country or the world in general?

I see a slide towards semi chaos, 8 to 10 years of hard, lean times. Then hopefully, god willing if you believe in that sort of thing, things will turn around. maybe we'll all be nicer to each other. leave each other alone, or work toghther to solve some of the huge problems we face as a species. anyhow, I'd like thoughts. thanks, J



i'm still hoping a real version of the Star Trek universe will eventually occur. would be nice to be able to travel the galaxy and meet new lifeforms.


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Are we having fun, yet?

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Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Future you see - 11/13/2008 12:26:24 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Everybody will eventually cark it. Happy, happy. Joy, joy.

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Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Future you see - 11/13/2008 1:51:03 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

There will be an even wider gap between the 'haves' and 'have nots' as the 'haves' stop investing or generating new businesses; eliminating the possibility of creating more 'haves'.

I see an era where more personal liberties are encumbered by the 'good intent' police who only want to follow democratic ideals when is suits their agenda.

I see an increase in the current 40% of the population who don't pay anything in taxes but expect everything as an entitlement.

I think the religious fervor for PE Obama will continue, and any critic will be labeled a 'racist' making the word a modern day version of 'heretic'

I see PE Obama's intelligence, focus, and, dare I say pragmatism, causing some of his disciples, especially in the Democratic Party, to lose faith in him. He's already tipped his hand a bit regarding illegal workers and following President Bush's program of issuing another 'economic stimulus check'.

I see stagnation because the government can't print enough money fast enough.

I see a mass exodus many successful major corporate entity to some other county. 

I see a dead economy when, with too many failures to 'bail out' there aren't enough 'successes' left to pay the tab.

I see a place where what you eat, what you watch, and what you listen to must be approved by some governmental monitoring agency and be politically correct.

I see a need and a use for all those guns that people are buying for self protection.

I see the repeat of prior historically documented failure of attempting pseudo-socialism.

I see a second generation where children can only remember fondly what it was like to have the opportunity to exceed the success of their parents.
quote:

ORIGINAL: shivermetimbers
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
I see America rediscovering her libertarian roots, as people remember that only individual man can be free, and that only individual man is possessed of the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.  And I see prosperity returning, as free men tend to be either a) industrious or b) quite dead.

Optimist! 
Here's hoping you are right on the money! 

Here Here!!!!


I'll also drink that 'Kool-Aid'!


Pragmatist!
I am afraid you are right on the money.
But, what the hell...*passes the Kool-Aid*

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Future you see - 11/13/2008 2:13:20 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

But, what the hell...*passes the Kool-Aid*

Any chance of getting a slug of Vodka in some of that Kool-Aid? The Blood Alcohol Level's been kinda low lately!

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Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Future you see - 11/13/2008 2:20:10 PM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		I really don't know.  I don't think anyone does.  We've had scares before -- the collapse of the Savings and Loans, the 'deflation' of junk bonds -- and I haven't any way to wrap my mind around world-wide macro-economics.
 
Personally I don't think it'll get as bad as you and Termy do, but I am not so stupid as to ignore changes in my environment, either.
 
Wouldn't be terribly sad to see the return of 'broadcast tv'.  I never have understood why anyone would spend $5,000 on a television set -- there's nothing on but crap anyway.
 
I was more content back in the day when I knew the Thursday night line up on NBC was worth watching.
 
candystripper 

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Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Future you see - 11/13/2008 2:56:08 PM   
StrictnSaucy


Posts: 363
Joined: 1/6/2005
Status: offline 		I see a total shift in the way people manage their money. A move away from banks and funds and a more hands on approach. I see people investing their hard earned cash in start up companies they believe in. I see more respect for our surroundings. I see people open their eyes and take personal responsibility for their carbon footprint and other eco matters. I see improvement and I look forward to it.

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RE: Future you see - 11/13/2008 3:57:57 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

But, what the hell...*passes the Kool-Aid*

Any chance of getting a slug of Vodka in some of that Kool-Aid? The Blood Alcohol Level's been kinda low lately!


I prefer scotch Myself, but you're right.  Vodka is probably a much better choice with Kool-Aid.
*Cracks open a bottle of Absolut straight from the freezer*

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Future you see - 11/13/2008 7:15:16 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

I prefer scotch Myself,

Aha!  A woman of quality!

(pushes the KoolAid and vodka off to the side and pulls out a bottle of Loch Dhu)


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Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Future you see - 11/13/2008 7:58:35 PM   
corysub


Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I see a totally inept and dysfunctional Congress already enjoying the lowest popularity in history, will continue bogged down wasting taxpayer money in hearings after hearings trying to GET Bush and Cheney..not focusing or caring about the middle class average "Joe" who is trying to feed his family.  The Reid/Pelosi team  will take their politics into the core of our capitalistic system and destroying incentive to invest and prolonging the agony of a deep recession.  Our energy policy will be to dictate highter mileage standard for our car companies, regulations that have significantly caused, along with crazy union settlements, the demise of the U.S. auto industry.  Nuclear, oil, coal will be discarded in an economy that runs on fossil fuels in favor of "windmills"...but NIMBY. 
Workers will be denied the right to a secret ballot to vote  if he/she wants or doesn't want a union shop, another increase in the miniumum wage will be inacted and being the last straw for so many small businessmen already fighting to stay in business in a deteriorating environment.   The age of the environmentalist in control of the legislative agenda will hamstring business with regulations, destroy any remaining competitive advantage our industry might posses in the world.....and the destruction of the U.S. military by a President who will work the ultra liberal democrat  agenda of compromise, defeat and withhdrawal that has been the formula of that party for the past half century..  85% of Americans will lose their healthcare plans to satisfy the needs of the 15% who don't have healthcare.  Idiots that purchased homes they could not afford will be bailed out along with wealthy Wall Street bankers, and the middle class working slob trying to do the right thing will be tapping out his savings account to stay in his home. 
Esprit d''Corp and morale that our volunteer army presently posseses will be destroyed by the radical principles of the 1960's that guide our new president.  Large numbers of the officer corps will probably take early retirement rather than be led by a Commander In Chief who has been against the military all of his public life.  The stock market will trade down another 30% plus as people rush out of stocks and into gold and other hard assets. 
Net, I don't see anything good happening for a few years.......the four horsemen are coming. 
P.S. The girls will get a labradoodle puppy.

< Message edited by corysub -- 11/13/2008 8:00:48 PM >

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Future you see - 11/13/2008 8:54:50 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		        We shall live in interesting times...


      A few things are pretty much givens, not if but when.

     China will take their billion + people to war in our lifetimes.  They have to do something with the millions of surplus young men growing from their population control policy, and they don't seem to be promoting an homosexual lifestyle.  The Chinese government is going to need to kill them off.  Africa, if we in the West are lucky.

      California, a big chunk of the U.S. economy, is going to get fucked up by a major earthquake sooner or later.  The immediate damage estimates for the drill today were $200,000,000,000 (that's with a 'b').  (Scroll down here for the video simulation of the wave intensity.)  

      The Islamic Crazy People are going to remind us they are still around.  

      The price of gas is going to go back up.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Future you see - 11/13/2008 9:46:03 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline 		I don't know, I'm sorta caught in between the optimism of potential progress, and the pessimism that comes from trying to analyze human behavior.

On the one hand, we could in theory correct all these problems by implementing and focusing on new means of energy production. I think that is the answer regardless of the price of a barrel of oil. I've written before on my views on energy and most of our modern day problems are fundamentally based around how expensive fuel is, and the mere fact that it is not a infinite resource. So, could we starting today have a better richer world, yes.

However, I do not think it will be done. Why, well for one we have trashed 5 trillion according to an article (real news source like cnn or cnbc can't remember which)this year (previously I read 3 trillion, either or they are both deadly numbers), trying to prop up a relatively useless segment of the economy. Financials merely multiply and enhance real wealth they still need the underlying base to work from, and that is what is lacking. So, we are throwing all of our money at a symptom and not the problem, we have yet to even address the problem at all.
Now, whether you think that is Bushs fault the banks fault or whoever it really doesn't matter it has happened, now the big downer is that Obama is set on continuing bushes policies of misdirected resources by supporting a bailout of GM, and fellow car companies. Anyway, even if Obama would like to invest in alternative energy there is only so much money to go around, and it we are quickly approaching tapped out.

While I'm not a supporter of any government entertwining with business, or 99% of welfare. If the government (will of the people), was properly focused it could be fixed. Throwing money into GM will not create a reduced cost energy source, they may make some advancements in more efficient vehicles but that is at most a piece of the pie, and at best maintains jobs, and leaves almost zero room for growth. However, take that same 5 trillion we have trashed on the financials, and instead we could have removed all taxes on any alternative energy, research, labor, or products. We could have built 1000's of solar farms, wind farms, and gave special low interest loans to viable alternative energy businesses. We could have done a lot with 5 trillion. Now we are left with the exact identical system that broke itself to begin with, and no better off, the best we can hope for is another market frenzy(tech bubble, housing bubble, etc), to carry us out of this temporarily, but we will be back barring some new tech gets ramped up very quickly. Those nanosolar.com guys seems to have a good solution, why don't we build 3000 nanosolar plants. The shit works.


Anyway, I think the opportunity has nearly if not already passed to change the direction in the short term. Thus my best guess is Obama will continue with the bailouts, he will throw a token amount at alternative energy, and he will increase welfare programs we will ride the rollcoaster of a stock market, and in a few years it'll bottom out. We will not reach new non-inflated highs, until a viable energy alternative is developed and available to everyone (Wal-Mart shelves), that is significantly cheaper than coal.

In summation I think we're fucked, because people are greedy, the corps are greedy, individuals are greedy, everyone is looking out to save their own ass, and the solution receives relatively minor attention in comparitive dollar amounts.

So, fuck it, guns, ammo, food, wood heat, essential quantity of non-grid power that's what you need at minimum.

(in reply to rexrgisformidoni)
Profile   Post #: 20
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