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Obama - the rubber hits the road - 11/5/2008 9:07:15 PM

OrdernChaos

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Obama, is now the first African American President, and in doing so he defeated a good and honorable man in Senator John McCain.

I was listening to the Diane Rehm show this morning, and a statistic was mentioned that only 8% of the white voters voted for McCain because of race.

As inflamatory as these questions might be, I would love them answered, in a calm and objective way:

I would be curious in the following answers:

What percentage of the white voters voted FOR Obama because of race?
What percentage of that vote did Obama win?
What percentage of the African American voters voted FOR Obama because of race?
What percentage of that vote did Obama win?
What percentage of the Latino voters voted FOR Obama because of race?
What percentage of that vote did Obama win?

I would like to ask does the fact that we now have an African American President put an end to Brown v. Board of Education or at least the quota derivatives of that decision?

And one more comment on Mrs. Rehm's show:

It was noted that Pres-Elect Obama will enjoy the same type of Democratic majority in the Congress and the Senate that Pres. Clinton enjoyed.

It was quickly decided that the Republicans will be hostile towards Pres. Obama, and he will have the "daunting" task of keeping the various factions of the Democratic party focused and united to get things done.

It should be something that should be "small work" for a "uniter" who can "reach across the isle".

I would be curious to read un-emotional rational responses.

OnC

Post #: 1

RE: Obama - the rubber hits the road - 11/5/2008 9:24:39 PM

marie2

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From: Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrdernChaos

I would be curious to read un-emotional rational responses.

Oh, you're not going to find that here.

(in reply to OrdernChaos)

Post #: 2

RE: Obama - the rubber hits the road - 11/5/2008 9:27:08 PM

TheHeretic

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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrdernChaos

I would be curious to read un-emotional rational responses.

Very best of luck with that.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to OrdernChaos)

Post #: 3

RE: Obama - the rubber hits the road - 11/5/2008 9:40:45 PM

popeye1250

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From: New Hampshire
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Whoa! Hold the phone!
Clinton was the first African-American president!
And why is it that the only ones who seem to be talking about Obama's "race" are liberal talk show hosts?

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(in reply to OrdernChaos)

Post #: 4

RE: Obama - the rubber hits the road - 11/5/2008 9:43:55 PM

BitaTruble

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~FR~

I don't think you'll be able to find the information you seek in any substantive way and I'm not sure why it matters, but you can try the CBS website. They gave a demographics breakdown based on %'s on their broadcast last night although I don't recall them specifically asking the ?'s from your OP. Where have you already searched for your answers?

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 5

RE: Obama - the rubber hits the road - 11/5/2008 10:18:50 PM

corysub

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And so it continues. The constant reminder that Obama is a black man from the left. In all of my conversations with people who did not vote for Obama, including myself, his race was never a factor in our view that the man was not capable of the job by dint of his lack of experience on the world stage, his lack of any political history of important legislative accomplishment, his history of somehow finding the most radical of the left to be his friends...and than make excuses for these relationships. Are there people with white, brown, yellow and red races who are bigots and vote only the color of a mans skin...of course...as well as his religion and ethnicitiy. I don't now how you measure that number...and while 8% was thrown out here, maybe it was 2%...maybe it was 15%...but that's not the point. He won because more people agreed with his "words" than those that thought it was charismatic nonsense telling a fearful people what they wanted to hear...pandering with promises of government checks, free health care,..and for many guilt ridden liberals, a sense of history.
No question that this election was historic. No question in my mind things WILL change...and the percentages I leave up to people who love statistics. How this country will be changed IS the question...and very few people who voted for the man have any vision about HIS vision...or they, in fact, love the idea of more central, big government control over their lives.

I hope this was a "calm" essay on my part....I'm not full of hatred for Obama..and never have been... I just feel his America is not my America, and, again, it was pretty evenly split pro-con on this score. In most States the race was not the 10 or 15 point spread the "statistics" of the pollsters showed, and the popular vote was pretty close, particularly if you take out the strong showings he had in a few big states like California and New York. McCain ran a poor campaign relative to the disciplined Obama ground game. McCain also lost the election on an issue that was not the reason Obama won the nomination of his party...the economy hit the skids in the past few months and worked against the republicans big time. The crash of the stock market killed the post convention momentum of the McCain campaign, and going to Washington was a stupid thing to do, and only hightlighted a negative issue and gave him ownership that he could have avoided.

Maybe it's a dream...but it would be so nice not to have people categorizd by race, color or creed...but by their philosopy. Unfortnately, it does not suit "divide and conquer" politcs..and will never happen.

(in reply to OrdernChaos)

Post #: 6

RE: Obama - the rubber hits the road - 11/5/2008 11:13:21 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrdernChaos
I would like to ask does the fact that we now have an African American President put an end to Brown v. Board of Education or at least the quota derivatives of that decision?

Seperate will always be unequal and no election will ever change that. Perhaps if you actually knew what Brown v Board was about you would have known this question had no merit.

(in reply to OrdernChaos)

Post #: 7

RE: Obama - the rubber hits the road - 11/5/2008 11:13:23 PM

OrdernChaos

Posts: 9
Joined: 8/31/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

And so it continues. The constant reminder that Obama is a black man from the left. In all of my conversations with people who did not vote for Obama, including myself, his race was never a factor in our view that the man was not capable of the job by dint of his lack of experience on the world stage, his lack of any political history of important legislative accomplishment, his history of somehow finding the most radical of the left to be his friends...and than make excuses for these relationships. Are there people with white, brown, yellow and red races who are bigots and vote only the color of a mans skin...of course...as well as his religion and ethnicitiy. I don't now how you measure that number...and while 8% was thrown out here, maybe it was 2%...maybe it was 15%...but that's not the point. He won because more people agreed with his "words" than those that thought it was charismatic nonsense telling a fearful people what they wanted to hear...pandering with promises of government checks, free health care,..and for many guilt ridden liberals, a sense of history.
No question that this election was historic. No question in my mind things WILL change...and the percentages I leave up to people who love statistics. How this country will be changed IS the question...and very few people who voted for the man have any vision about HIS vision...or they, in fact, love the idea of more central, big government control over their lives.

I hope this was a "calm" essay on my part....I'm not full of hatred for Obama..and never have been... I just feel his America is not my America, and, again, it was pretty evenly split pro-con on this score. In most States the race was not the 10 or 15 point spread the "statistics" of the pollsters showed, and the popular vote was pretty close, particularly if you take out the strong showings he had in a few big states like California and New York. McCain ran a poor campaign relative to the disciplined Obama ground game. McCain also lost the election on an issue that was not the reason Obama won the nomination of his party...the economy hit the skids in the past few months and worked against the republicans big time. The crash of the stock market killed the post convention momentum of the McCain campaign, and going to Washington was a stupid thing to do, and only hightlighted a negative issue and gave him ownership that he could have avoided.

Maybe it's a dream...but it would be so nice not to have people categorizd by race, color or creed...but by their philosopy. Unfortnately, it does not suit "divide and conquer" politcs..and will never happen.

If it matters, I found your post very calm and rational. I did not, not like Obama because of skin color, it was just that I thought the media made such a big deal of it, and it seems in quite a few ways he benefited from it, starting even from primary run offs against Hillary.

I believe that it is wrong to judge a man by the color of his skin. I also believe it is wrong to promote a man because of the color of his skin. I see efforts to abolish the first one. I don't see any efforts to abolish the second one.

How can we truly put color behind us if we continue to treat it especially in some light?

OnC

(in reply to corysub)

Post #: 8

RE: Obama - the rubber hits the road - 11/5/2008 11:25:10 PM

OrdernChaos

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Joined: 8/31/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrdernChaos
I would like to ask does the fact that we now have an African American President put an end to Brown v. Board of Education or at least the quota derivatives of that decision?

Seperate will always be unequal and no election will ever change that. Perhaps if you actually knew what Brown v Board was about you would have known this question had no merit.

I am very well aware of the case and its history, as well as Plessy v. Ferguson.

The issue I have is with the enforced quotas in place to ensure the desegragation of such places as for example higher education institutions that are government funded.

I was privilidged enough to attend a private educational institution that by choice did not receive govt funding of any sort. They did not have to abide by quotas. Quite a few people that attended it (myself included) would not have been able to afford it, if it was not for some special grands the institute made available on the basis of MERIT (a merit based system you say? what a concept!!!!).

There was a disproportionate low amount of african american students in this institute and it was not a result of any racism on the part of the admissions board. I am not saying that african-americans are not intelligent, or should not attend this particular institute, all I am saying is that if in the population that applied there were not enough african-americans that qualified to make the quota, special provisions should not be made to make sure that quota is met at the expense of qualified non-african-american (or whatever other people) might be.

OnC

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 9

RE: Obama - the rubber hits the road - 11/5/2008 11:44:31 PM

OrdernChaos

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Joined: 8/31/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

~FR~

I don't think you'll be able to find the information you seek in any substantive way and I'm not sure why it matters, but you can try the CBS website. They gave a demographics breakdown based on %'s on their broadcast last night although I don't recall them specifically asking the ?'s from your OP. Where have you already searched for your answers?

Thanks for pointing out the CBS site:

http://election.cbsnews.com/election2008/exit.shtml?state=US&race=P&jurisdiction=0

I wish there was a little more focus on what I am looking for, but it is a good starting point. From a statistical pov, some of the numbers on the latino and african american population are interesting.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 10

RE: Obama - the rubber hits the road - 11/5/2008 11:46:35 PM

Vendaval

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Try msnbc.com for more statistics or Politico.

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(in reply to OrdernChaos)

Post #: 11

RE: Obama - the rubber hits the road - 11/5/2008 11:48:41 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

Your school, BJU or a competitor by the sound of it, is welcome to exclude people on any basis they choose. However if a school or other entity takes my tax dollars then they need to make sure that they do not create a situation that violates the 14th ammendment.

Since you seem to misunderstand the very basis and effects of the ruling might I suggest you do some research on th esubject before making specious claims about one of the most important SCOTUS rulings in history.

(in reply to OrdernChaos)

Post #: 12

RE: Obama - the rubber hits the road - 11/6/2008 1:40:15 AM

meatcleaver

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Obama is not black, he is mixed race with a white American upbringing on the whole. He was an ideal candidate for the progressive move of voting in a black president.

That being said, he was obviously by far and away the best of the two candidate.

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(in reply to OrdernChaos)

Post #: 13

RE: Obama - the rubber hits the road - 11/6/2008 7:01:37 AM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
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quote:

I would be curious to read un-emotional rational responses.

There is nothing un-emotional about politics. There is very little that is rational about electoral politics.

I would not be curious to read "un-emotional rational responses" so much as I would be shocked, amazed, and probably disbelieving.

_____________________________

(in reply to OrdernChaos)

Post #: 14

RE: Obama - the rubber hits the road - 11/6/2008 7:28:36 AM

Cagey18

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Joined: 9/7/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

In most States the race was not the 10 or 15 point spread the "statistics" of the pollsters showed, and the popular vote was pretty close

You could not be more wrong. Actually the state votes came right in line with the polls' predictions. To cite but a few examples:
Wisconsin: 13 point spread (polls: 12)
Minnesota: 10 point spread (pollls: 11)
Michigan: 16 point spread (polls: 13)
That's just the first few I looked at.

As for the popular vote:
Obama: 64,077,703
McCain: 56,502,395

This is what you call "pretty close"? Twice the gap of Bush vs Kerry! What was 2004 in your world, "really really really close"? Oh wait, the Republican was declared the victor, must have been a "popular vote landslide".

But hey, it's not like you've let facts stand in your way in the past.

(in reply to corysub)

Post #: 15

RE: Obama - the rubber hits the road - 11/6/2008 7:37:27 AM

BlackPhx

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It doesn't matter Order...not as much as you think, because Obama is both Black and White. So either way unless you are asking how many Native Americans or Asians voted for Obama because of race, it's not a factor. Even Latinos are considered a white race or Mixed depending on where they originate, Spain, Mexico, South America etc.

People voted for Hope, for someone who maintained the dignity under adversity they would like to see face the rest of the world. They voted for inspiration where there has been none, they voted for new blood, they voted their minds, their consciouses and their pocketbooks. More than anything else one of the things I saw was they voted against Fear and FOR America. We are a melting pot, all races, all religions and all economic levels. We are taught from the first day we are born that we can be ANYTHING, Cowboy, CEO, Ballet Dancer, Doctor, President..whether we are male or female, white black, red, yellow, green, orange, purple..we just have to work for it and towards it.

We saw that come true this November 4th. No silver spoon in his mouth when he was born, mixed race in a world that was just beginning to deal with interracial marraiges, no trust fund baby, no private schools , NOTHING we cannot and have not offered our own children to start them on the road to fulfilling their dreams and an overwhelming majority placed him in the highest seat of the country.

There lies the truth of this country at last. ANYONE can reach for the stars.

poenkitten

(in reply to OrdernChaos)

Post #: 16

RE: Obama - the rubber hits the road - 11/6/2008 7:41:16 AM

Musicmystery

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quote:

I would be curious in the following answers:

What percentage of the white voters voted FOR Obama because of race?
What percentage of that vote did Obama win?
What percentage of the African American voters voted FOR Obama because of race?
What percentage of that vote did Obama win?
What percentage of the Latino voters voted FOR Obama because of race?
What percentage of that vote did Obama win?

Calmly and rationally, unemotionally, why don't you go do your own research, come back with the data and the source(s), and then offer and ask for interpretations?

(in reply to OrdernChaos)

Post #: 17

RE: Obama - the rubber hits the road - 11/6/2008 7:55:23 AM

amelliagrace

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrdernChaos

Obama, is now the first African American President, and in doing so he defeated a good and honorable man in Senator John McCain.

I was listening to the Diane Rehm show this morning, and a statistic was mentioned that only 8% of the white voters voted for McCain because of race......

I would be curious to read un-emotional rational responses.

OnC

Last night on CNN, I saw part of the demographic breakdown while watching Lou Dobbs. I can tell you that overall, Obama did very well among white voters. Among those 18-29, he raked in over 70% of the vote. That doesn't sound to me as though race was a big factor. Certainly, for most voters, it appears that "its the economy, stupid" was more of an issue that skin tone.

As to other sources, you might want to take a look here , http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_stump/archive/2008/11/05/it-s-the-economy-stupid-kinda.aspx. This is an excerpt: "A couple more quick demographic points:
Despite all the early and-wringing about Latino defections, Obama did far better among this group than John Kerry (66 percent versus 53). There were similar, if slightly more modest, gains among Jews (77 for Obama versus 74 for Kerry) and white evangelicals (25 versus 21).
The GOP nastiness in the homestretch (Wright, et al) appeared to have some effect, as McCain won voters who decided in the last three days by five points. But Obama won the Election-Day deciders by a similar margin. Which is to say, at the very end, it appears McCain behaved more like the incumbent than Obama (not surprising given the association with Bush), despite Team McCain’s argument that it would be the opposite thanks to Obama’s lavish spending.
Finally, on the question of race, Obama won 51 percent of people who said it wasn’t a factor, 54 percent who said it was a minor factor, 52 who said it was an important factor, and 59 who said it was the most important factor. Though the first group was by far the biggest (80 percent of the electorate), the numbers suggest that, to the extent race was a factor, it tended to help rather than hurt Obama. Or, put differently, of the people for whom race mattered, more wanted to see a black man become president than didn’t.
*This is based on exit poll numbers from early this morning. It’s possible that they’ll change a bit over time. "
--Noam Scheiber

The article below may be found here: http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/11/the_breakdown_who_elected_obama_and_did_they_give_him_a_mandate.html
The Breakdown: Who Elected Obama, and Did They Give Him a Mandate?

See a James Carville article here, pointing out that the younger a group of voters, the more of them voted for Obama. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/fa7343fe-ab6f-11dd-b9e1-000077b07658,dwp_uuid=729ab242-9cb1-11db-8ec6-0000779e2340.html?nclick_check=1

Grace

(in reply to OrdernChaos)

Post #: 18

RE: Obama - the rubber hits the road - 11/6/2008 7:57:43 AM

amelliagrace

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Joined: 8/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Calmly and rationally, unemotionally, why don't you go do your own research, come back with the data and the source(s), and then offer and ask for interpretations?

Why Tim, it is obviously because he has not yet discovered the universal truth that "Google is your friend".

Grace

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 19

RE: Obama - the rubber hits the road - 11/6/2008 8:00:12 AM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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I guess not, Grace.

Or that news organizations, the government, and reference materials all maintain searchable databases online.

Tim

(in reply to amelliagrace)

Post #: 20

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