RE: Question for practical types. (Full Version)

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Musicmystery -> RE: Question for practical types. (11/4/2008 8:08:10 AM)

In addition to Hunter....

Go to your local hardware store and talk to the guys at the back counter. You'll get good suggestions/ideas and advice on how to follow through. They even have the tools/hardware right there.






UncleNasty -> RE: Question for practical types. (11/4/2008 8:27:52 AM)

Proper and complete diagnosis of the problem is required before effecting any proper repairs. Kind of like surface preparation is the key to good painting.

What is the construction and material of the door itself?

Inexpensive modern doors are typically hollow core or masonite. Neither of these doors will sag, or shift, and they won't swell enough to be the likely cause of your problems. Even solid core doors are extremely stable.

Where is the door jamming?

Wooden doors, of frame and panel construction, will most commonly sag by becoming paralellograms, as opposed to rectangles, and will evidence this at the upper portion of the non-hinge side, and/or the bottom edge furthest from the hinges. If the door has come unglued (yes, really) the best fix is to take it apart, clean out all the joints of old glue, clamp and reglue. This is the best fix but is also the most involved and expensive fix. Likely you'll need to hire someone to do this for you.

Do the best can to close the door and look at the gap between door and jamb on all four sides. The eye can detect difference in paralell pretty easily. Mine can anyway, but then I do this stuff for a living. You'll be looking for small, minor differences, as small as 1/32 - 1/16 of an inch.

Your problem could also be screws in the hinges having come loose, or the wood having stripped. In either case the hinges aren't holding as they should be. This could be either in the door side or the jamb side of the hinges. If loose merely tighten and see if this fixes the problem. If stipped you can use larger srews, longer or wider, or both. Make certain the head configuration and size is the same so they will seat properly in the hinges.

Another alternative for stripped wood is to drill out the holes to 1/4 inch, and then glue in fresh wood in the form of a 1/4 inch dowell. Sand flush, put hinges in place and drill proper pilot holes, reinstall screws. Screws don't hold as well in end grain as long grain but this is still a good fix.

Still another alternative for stripped wood is to put wood expoxy putty into the holes and insert screws while the epoxy is still soft. Not recommended as further problems, when and if they occurr, will require an "undoing" of an improper repair before the proper repair can be effected. But it can be quick and easy.

There is also the possiblity of chiseling out the hinge mortices for either the door side or jamb side. Your problem is likely not on the hinge side in a way this would be the fix. If you're new to this I'd recommend this as a last option. My chisels are sharp enough to shave hair (though really, I use a razor for this, LOL) and this makes the work quite easy. I've also got countless hours of experience with a chisel in my hand. Tackle it if your determined but remember any where you cut wood away is gonna be permanent.

If your problem is hinge side it will most likely be fixed best by shimming. You can use very thin stips of wood for this, or even card board, which in essence is processed wood anyway. Back in the day, when match books were more readily available, I fixed most door ways with this problem using match book covers as shim stock. Shimming the lower hinge fixes many door problems.

If the door is painted, an old, you may simply have paint build up in either the door, or the jamb, or both. Scape, sand or plane away the build up, repaint and reinstall the door.

If the problem is in the jamb and it is severly out of square you can either alter the door to fit the jamb, or alter the jamb to fit the door. If altering the jamb you'll need to remove trim work around it, cut the nails holding it in place and reste it to square. An involved process. I see it as the better fix though.

Altering the door is easier and can be done with a good hand plane. Do not use a hand held circular saw for this if you care about the appearance at all. Cutting lines that straight by hand is very difficult to impossible. Also blades in proper tooth configuration, and sharp enough, are rare. Likely you'll tear and chip the wood, have a crooked cut, and will cuss at yourself a lot when you're done.

Hope this helps.

Uncle Nasty









RCdc -> RE: Question for practical types. (11/4/2008 8:33:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Dar,  try not to take this the wrong way, appealing pic.  Good job!  :-)


PA - thank you, your so kind.[:)]
 
the.dark.




RCdc -> RE: Question for practical types. (11/4/2008 8:41:04 AM)

You are all fantastic for taking the time to answer.
 
To answer Uncle Nasty - I couldn't say wha the door is made of, but it certainly isn't a solid wood.  It's a modern six panel door with one coat of paint, not a fire door and it is an internal.  Jamming top corner opposite side of the hinges and side.  It is certainly a door that has not been recently painted etc.
 
I am going to go have a good old study of it again now and see if I can add any other info.  I am starting to think it may have swelled(is that even a word?) given it's position, but there are no cracks or splits in the door nor the frame.
 
the.dark.




Termyn8or -> RE: Question for practical types. (11/4/2008 9:00:59 AM)

UN it sounds like you know what you're doing over there, but as we all know there is a need for a trained eye usually. I can't tell you how many times I have walked into something like this and was told "So what we are going to do is ....." and I say "No no no, that is not the problem,. THIS is the problem".

Now I am going to make a couple of assumptions. First of all things do not fall up, so I would assume that the door is hitting the jamb at the top. Assuming that it used to fit properly there are a few possible causes for this. Usually the screws on the top hinges simply need to be tightened. In other cases the hinge plate has bent, as mentioned from hanging on the door, or possibly from it's own weight, over the years.

I have also run into so many doors that were not installed properly it's not funny. People have been doing things wrong for a long time. I rebuilt a house almost, and among the tasks was to install a new back door. I found no header there and of course I installed one. The front door was installed by yokels and was not replaced, only refurbished. When you slam the door I did not install it shakes the whole house almost, when you slam the door I did install it sounds about like a refrigerator door being closed.

When the door was not properly installed there is a good chance that over time the jamb will become a paralellogram. This can cause problems.

Thing is, without seeing it for myself I can't go much further. I can say this much, if the door is painted, the wear pattern of the paint can be very telling. If you stick with the assumption that things do not fall up, and that the door closed properly when first installed, with the laws of gravity taken into account a useful conclusion can be drawn.

Some pictures would be very helpful. Problem is, if someone knows what pictures to take, they can probably figure it out for themselves. I assume the OP is trying to avoid calling a contractor. If I were in the area I would take on the job, which is a minor job in my opinion. While I am not cheap, I would be cheaper than most.

Sometimes the next best thing to being there is just not good enough.

T




celticlord2112 -> RE: Question for practical types. (11/4/2008 9:07:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

So I am arty, not practical.[:D]
We have a door - that keeps sticking.  It is totally out of line and will not shut.  It simply jams.  The alignment is out, but the is another door adjacent to it that is perfectly fine and closes no problem - so it isn't 'shifting'.  It isn;t swollen.  It isn't damaged.  Would sorting/tightening out the hinges assist?  Or should I consider something more major?
 
the.dark.

Planing tool, T-Square, and a fresh coat of paint/stain for both doors when done.

If the frame is square, and there is no warping, then the door itself is likely not perfectly square.




UncleNasty -> RE: Question for practical types. (11/4/2008 9:21:22 AM)

D and the D,

There are 4 edges - a top, a bottom, and 2 long sides. 

"Jamming top corner opposite side of the hinges and side."
 
When you say "top corner" do you mean to describe the top edge , and furthest from the hinge side? Or do you mean the "top corner" of the long non-honge side?

Term is right that eyes on sight are better and faster.

Uncle Nasty




RCdc -> RE: Question for practical types. (11/4/2008 9:32:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

D and the D,

There are 4 edges - a top, a bottom, and 2 long sides. 

"Jamming top corner opposite side of the hinges and side."
 
When you say "top corner" do you mean to describe the top edge , and furthest from the hinge side? Or do you mean the "top corner" of the long non-honge side?

Term is right that eyes on sight are better and faster.

Uncle Nasty


Facing door, hinge on left, top right corner is the issue.  The bottom of the door looks straight with no problems, the top looks higher on the top right.  But this is an issue that has become progressively worse(even if it's gradual and slight) since we moved in, but no cracks in the door, frame or wall/ceiling.
I wanted to delve into it myself - but with all this advice, I might just have to wait for Aneirin to visit.  He is already working on my chair leg.
 
the.dark.




MistresseLotus -> RE: Question for practical types. (11/4/2008 9:53:59 AM)

Door Solutions




UncleNasty -> RE: Question for practical types. (11/4/2008 11:01:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

D and the D,

There are 4 edges - a top, a bottom, and 2 long sides. 

"Jamming top corner opposite side of the hinges and side."
 
When you say "top corner" do you mean to describe the top edge , and furthest from the hinge side? Or do you mean the "top corner" of the long non-honge side?

Term is right that eyes on sight are better and faster.

Uncle Nasty


Facing door, hinge on left, top right corner is the issue.  The bottom of the door looks straight with no problems, the top looks higher on the top right.  But this is an issue that has become progressively worse(even if it's gradual and slight) since we moved in, but no cracks in the door, frame or wall/ceiling.
I wanted to delve into it myself - but with all this advice, I might just have to wait for Aneirin to visit.  He is already working on my chair leg.
 
the.dark.


 
Eyes on site are probably best. Site unseen it sounds like a settling problem and your jamb is moving. Houses do this.
 
Try shimming the top hinge in order to move the door. This will bring the out of whackness back into whackness in relation to each other.
 
When doors go bad (sounds like a Fox TV special) they usually move down, not up. In this case it sounds like your jamb is moving down.
 
Should be an easy fix. Shouldn't need to shim it more a 16th, an 8th at max. More than an 8th and longer screws may be in order too.
 
Uncle Nasty




xxblushesxx -> RE: Question for practical types. (11/4/2008 11:11:41 AM)

Uncle N. I see your lips moving, but all I hear is "blah blah blah..." *lol* that was a lot of (what I assume is) very good info! I didn't understand it, but, it sounded technical and correct.

Dar, (can't remember which dar asked the q.) don't put yourself down for being creative. Many times HM will be working on a technical project (with me assisting), and comes up against a problem He doesn't have a solution to. Since I "see" and "comprehend" things differently than He does (or most do) I can often come up with an unusual but workable solution. (I love the look on His face when that happens!!)




RCdc -> RE: Question for practical types. (11/4/2008 11:46:01 AM)

Hey Christina
No worries, I am not putting my creativity down at all.  I fucking rock creatively.[;)]  I wanted to 'branch out' and see if I could deal with something outside my comfort zone.  Darcy is always encouraging me to learn and do more and all that could possibly learn to gain self improvement.  This was one of those thangs.  Obeying, self improvement, learning and making him proud - what else could be cooler?[:)]
 
the.dark.




Aneirin -> RE: Question for practical types. (11/4/2008 12:36:29 PM)

Yes dark, I was going to ask you if you had a plane, but was functioning on the same apathy that made me take off the chair leg at the last minute. I will do it in a few weeks if you can wait that long, and I know the door and saw it's problem.




LaTigresse -> RE: Question for practical types. (11/4/2008 1:51:31 PM)

Problem solved!




Irishknight -> RE: Question for practical types. (11/4/2008 6:26:06 PM)

Two words.  "sledge hammer"




MadAxeman -> RE: Question for practical types. (11/4/2008 8:00:19 PM)

Buy exact replicas of the furnishings and fittings of your next door neighbours house. Redecorate your house to look like theirs, then move in while they are out. Remember to switch the door number.




Termyn8or -> RE: Question for practical types. (11/5/2008 12:45:46 PM)

Finally got you some weed after the election did you Madax ? That was waaaay off the wall.

T




MadAxeman -> RE: Question for practical types. (11/5/2008 8:36:32 PM)

This is the good shit




DesFIP -> RE: Question for practical types. (11/6/2008 4:42:13 AM)

Does it stick year round, or only in summer? Because if it's seasonal that would indicate that the door needs to be taken down, planed back to size, and then resealed to prevent it absorbing moisture.

But I always start with tightening hinges, it's simply the easiest thing to try.




barelynangel -> RE: Question for practical types. (11/6/2008 4:48:14 AM)

the dark, lol now that more practical people have actually given you great advice, i feel safe in saying..... isn't that the Man's job???  [sm=dunno.gif]Sorry lol, i have the same reaction when people talk about fixing cars lol  taking out the garbage, mowing the lawn, putting together electronics lol.    Yes Yes i know ---->   [sm=Groaner.gif]   




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