RE: Credit Crunch Comes Home... (Full Version)

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kittinSol -> RE: Credit Crunch Comes Home... (10/30/2008 5:37:37 AM)

Nah, free speech is way overrated. It allows for way too much bullshit being broadcasted. Give me speech restrictions anyday: it's so much more fun.






TreasureKY -> RE: Credit Crunch Comes Home... (10/30/2008 7:22:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

It's like this: a poster makes a genuine heartfelt thread about his real concerns for his small business, and a big shark and his girlfriend jump right in there stating ridiculous McCain/Palin talking points: not pretty [8D] .


Did it ever occur to you, kittenSol, that my comments were based on my feelings, genuine and heartfelt? 

Has it ever crossed your mind that those "talking points" that you so glibly assign to McCain and Palin are really my feelings that they just happen to share? 

Is it really such a stretch for you to understand that for some of us, our political beliefs and feelings (held long before Bush, McCain, Palin, or any other flavor-of-the-moment politician came along) are formed from our own personal life experience, based on an understanding of history and a pragmatic perception of a possible future, and rooted in our genuine concern?

How "shitty" is it of you to come along and malign my genuine and heartfelt posts?




BitaTruble -> RE: Credit Crunch Comes Home... (10/30/2008 8:57:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

So I own a small picture framing business in Northern Colorado.  The business is just over a year old and doing pretty well - slower and lower than my business plan projections, but still good enough to warrant continuance.

We have all heard about how the credit crunch is affecting small business. Well yesterday it hit home when my bank, Chase, canceled a home equity line of credit that was serving as a source of credit for the business.

We never missed or were late on a payment.  They just changed the rules, revalued our home and canceled our line unilaterally.

We are now in a terrible position, operating only on cash on hand.  The economy is the worst it has been in 70 years...

Our plan included using some of our retirement accounts if the business failed - those are now below the value of the debt we incurred opening the shop.

We are in the midst of a financial "perfect storm" that will very likely wipe us out.

Protect yourselves out there friends - it is rough sailing and boats are being lost...  [&o]



It's unfortunate, but the news just got a little bit worse. Setting aside the fact that people who are losing their homes quit paying property taxes which reduces revenue to the government, the numbers coming out just today have indicated a drop in the 3Q of .3% of the GDP .. the worst performance in 7 years ... and when you factor in the government spending, it's very telling in that without the war expense that drop would have been even more significant than it already is. This is a direct reflection of consumer spending (and things like housing values etc) and that directly impacts small and medium sized businesses. (Apparently not mega-corps like Exxon though.. who is posting huge windfall profites - go figure. [8|])  The numbers for 4Q are expected to be negative (holiday spending should mean not 'quite' as bad as 3Q ::cross yer fingers!::) and for 1Q 2009. Couple that with the loss of 3/4 of a million jobs this year and, of course, the wild ride of the DJI and all I can really say is hold your breath and pray. Cash really is king right now, so if you can hold out with a 7 or 8 month cushion, you'll probably be able to ride the tide. If you don't have that sort of cushion, then I do wish you the best. [:(]

3Q = third quarter profits
GDP = Gross domestic product (THE # to watch in terms of economic spending trends)
DJI = Dow Jones Industrial (stock market)




bestbabync -> RE: Credit Crunch Comes Home... (10/30/2008 11:11:15 AM)

Otter

i will be praying for you, your family and your business!




pahunkboy -> RE: Credit Crunch Comes Home... (10/30/2008 1:01:33 PM)

when I think of the bail out billionaire thing the we, via congress as agreed to bill us, I am  sad that real people who are doing what they are suppose to do are punished.

I wish I had answeres that could help you both.  (bus situation)




MzMia -> RE: Credit Crunch Comes Home... (10/30/2008 4:04:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

So I own a small picture framing business in Northern Colorado.  The business is just over a year old and doing pretty well - slower and lower than my business plan projections, but still good enough to warrant continuance.

We have all heard about how the credit crunch is affecting small business. Well yesterday it hit home when my bank, Chase, canceled a home equity line of credit that was serving as a source of credit for the business.

We never missed or were late on a payment.  They just changed the rules, revalued our home and canceled our line unilaterally.

We are now in a terrible position, operating only on cash on hand.  The economy is the worst it has been in 70 years...

Our plan included using some of our retirement accounts if the business failed - those are now below the value of the debt we incurred opening the shop.

We are in the midst of a financial "perfect storm" that will very likely wipe us out.

Protect yourselves out there friends - it is rough sailing and boats are being lost...  [&o]



It's unfortunate, but the news just got a little bit worse. Setting aside the fact that people who are losing their homes quit paying property taxes which reduces revenue to the government, the numbers coming out just today have indicated a drop in the 3Q of .3% of the GDP .. the worst performance in 7 years ... and when you factor in the government spending, it's very telling in that without the war expense that drop would have been even more significant than it already is. This is a direct reflection of consumer spending (and things like housing values etc) and that directly impacts small and medium sized businesses. (Apparently not mega-corps like Exxon though.. who is posting huge windfall profites - go figure. [8|])  The numbers for 4Q are expected to be negative (holiday spending should mean not 'quite' as bad as 3Q ::cross yer fingers!::) and for 1Q 2009. Couple that with the loss of 3/4 of a million jobs this year and, of course, the wild ride of the DJI and all I can really say is hold your breath and pray. Cash really is king right now, so if you can hold out with a 7 or 8 month cushion, you'll probably be able to ride the tide. If you don't have that sort of cushion, then I do wish you the best. [:(]

3Q = third quarter profits
GDP = Gross domestic product (THE # to watch in terms of economic spending trends)
DJI = Dow Jones Industrial (stock market)

Thanks for the information, Celeste.
The economy seems to be collapsing a bit more every day.
There are not that many shoes left to drop.
Hang on to your hats, the rides are going to get bumpier.





bestbabync -> RE: Credit Crunch Comes Home... (10/30/2008 4:11:46 PM)

yes it seems....my county just today lost 2200 jobs[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m22.gif[/image]




JumpingJax -> RE: Credit Crunch Comes Home... (10/30/2008 5:42:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

So I own a small picture framing business in Northern Colorado. The business is just over a year old and doing pretty well - slower and lower than my business plan projections, but still good enough to warrant continuance.
..........
We are in the midst of a financial "perfect storm" that will very likely wipe us out.




Best of luck to you. I totally understand this. Started the year off with a 5 year old company that had 4 employees (not counting myself). Ending the year with no employees and barely covering month to month business expenses. That's the way the cookie crumbles, crumble being the key word.

Otter, Do you have a website? Maybe the CM community can throw you a few extra sales.







LookieNoNookie -> RE: Credit Crunch Comes Home... (10/30/2008 6:01:05 PM)

For those of you who'd like to know this data (discussed below) before it hits the news wires....

http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/ecalendar/index.html

(Very interesting stuff).

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

So I own a small picture framing business in Northern Colorado.  The business is just over a year old and doing pretty well - slower and lower than my business plan projections, but still good enough to warrant continuance.

We have all heard about how the credit crunch is affecting small business. Well yesterday it hit home when my bank, Chase, canceled a home equity line of credit that was serving as a source of credit for the business.

We never missed or were late on a payment.  They just changed the rules, revalued our home and canceled our line unilaterally.

We are now in a terrible position, operating only on cash on hand.  The economy is the worst it has been in 70 years...

Our plan included using some of our retirement accounts if the business failed - those are now below the value of the debt we incurred opening the shop.

We are in the midst of a financial "perfect storm" that will very likely wipe us out.

Protect yourselves out there friends - it is rough sailing and boats are being lost...  [&o]



It's unfortunate, but the news just got a little bit worse. Setting aside the fact that people who are losing their homes quit paying property taxes which reduces revenue to the government, the numbers coming out just today have indicated a drop in the 3Q of .3% of the GDP .. the worst performance in 7 years ... and when you factor in the government spending, it's very telling in that without the war expense that drop would have been even more significant than it already is. This is a direct reflection of consumer spending (and things like housing values etc) and that directly impacts small and medium sized businesses. (Apparently not mega-corps like Exxon though.. who is posting huge windfall profites - go figure. [8|])  The numbers for 4Q are expected to be negative (holiday spending should mean not 'quite' as bad as 3Q ::cross yer fingers!::) and for 1Q 2009. Couple that with the loss of 3/4 of a million jobs this year and, of course, the wild ride of the DJI and all I can really say is hold your breath and pray. Cash really is king right now, so if you can hold out with a 7 or 8 month cushion, you'll probably be able to ride the tide. If you don't have that sort of cushion, then I do wish you the best. [:(]

3Q = third quarter profits
GDP = Gross domestic product (THE # to watch in terms of economic spending trends)
DJI = Dow Jones Industrial (stock market)





Hippiekinkster -> RE: Credit Crunch Comes Home... (10/30/2008 6:39:53 PM)

Q4 sales are going to tell us what will happen in 2009. I anticipate the lowest retail sales numbers in over 30 years. We're going to see a LOT of small businesses die, and that is where jobs are created, not by the Fortune 500 companies.

I empathize with you, Otter.




OttersSwim -> RE: Credit Crunch Comes Home... (10/31/2008 7:12:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JumpingJax

Best of luck to you. I totally understand this. Started the year off with a 5 year old company that had 4 employees (not counting myself). Ending the year with no employees and barely covering month to month business expenses. That's the way the cookie crumbles, crumble being the key word.

Otter, Do you have a website? Maybe the CM community can throw you a few extra sales.


Yes, I do have a website.  It is www.ptframing.com.  I will ask for, and greatly appreciate any work people want to send me.  It might be prohibitive for sending large things through the post, but small stuff would do just fine and I do good work and am priced very reasonably!  Anyone local that wants to stop in and say "Hi", I would love to meet you.  [:)]

Thank you all for your comments and good thoughts.




candystripper -> RE: Credit Crunch Comes Home... (10/31/2008 9:05:52 AM)

Otter, there are some things to do before you decide to liquidate your retirement assets.
 
Banks are not the only lenders.  If you've been paying your business's invoices on time, some of your creditors might be willing to let you have a 'line of credit' so to speak.  Even '90 days same as cash' might be enough to save at least some of your retirement assets.
 
Read your loan agreement with your bank carefully.  The same damned thing is happening here....banks are willy-nilly cancelling home equity lines of credit.  However (and I will admit I have never read such a document) a line of credit agreement is a contract.  I wonder how in the hell banks can avoid these contractual obligations when the borrower has fulfilled all his obligations to date.  You might consider consulting a lawyer about this.
 
Contact the local SCORE....http://www.score.org/index.html.  Ask for assistance in obtaining a Small Business Administration Loan.  This is not a quick or easy process, but on the other hand, your business has an established track record, which should hasten the approval process.  SBA loans are unsecured....they are signature loans.
 
Look around for Commerce Associations, etc., and network with other businesses.  Yours may be an investment opportunity for someone looking for a decent rate of return...not easy to find in this economy.
 
I hope any of this helps.  I am very sorry to hear about the dilemma you find yourself in, and would be happy to help further if you wish to contact me on the other side.
 
candystripper  [sm=pole.gif]




OttersSwim -> RE: Credit Crunch Comes Home... (10/31/2008 9:54:02 AM)

Thanks Candy, that is good advice.  [:)]  I have communication out to two different organizations who are supposed to help small businesses in trouble, and am going in to talk to a local bank or two.




candystripper -> RE: Credit Crunch Comes Home... (10/31/2008 11:39:46 AM)

Otter, I was most sincere in my offer to you...and I'd try and help you as well, JumpingJax.  I have always admired entrepreneurs for their courage and will, and it only takes a bridge for most people to make a go of things.
 
I thought the idea of selling to a university was most excellent, and worth expanding on, and I'd be happy to help you contact my alumni associations.  However, I think in the short run, I'd be better able to help in conserving cash than in generating it....lawyers are not known for their business acumen, lol.
 
Best wishes to you both.
 
candystripper  [sm=pole.gif]
 
P.S.  JumpingJax, if I may ask, what does your business sell?  Is it something a website would help with?




cjan -> RE: Credit Crunch Comes Home... (10/31/2008 12:22:17 PM)

Best wishes, Otter.




JumpingJax -> RE: Credit Crunch Comes Home... (10/31/2008 2:56:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

P.S. JumpingJax, if I may ask, what does your business sell? Is it something a website would help with?



I was going to post more info but I really don't want to steal the thread from the OP. To give you the quick version our business is web design and this year we saw about 80% of our business go overseas. That is in addition too a couple other uncontrolable events that happened in the last year.
It might be worth noting that I am not worried. We are protected and my family isn't going to starve with or without this business. The business just made things a whole lot easier. At this point we are slowly regrouping and trying to evaluate what we can do to rebuild.

Anyway real Entrepreneurs have many failures before they ever find that success. If my math is right this is only my 2nd business venture (well 4th if you count companies started before the age of 18). I'm willing to try a dozen more before I totally give up..... nah that's not true... I wouldn't give up.






candystripper -> RE: Credit Crunch Comes Home... (10/31/2008 6:16:38 PM)

OMG, JumpingJax...do you know how many of my friends have their hopes pined on transitioning into web design?  It's being outsourced how, exactly?  How does a foreign national compete for English-speaking business?  Is the price they set so low you cannot compete?
 
This brings me sad reaffirmation of a 'factoid' I have noticed about myself....by the time *I'm* aware a market is exanding anywhere in the economy, it's glutted.  Apparently *I'm* permamently on the 'last to know' list. 
 
If it makes you feel any better, legal services are also being outsourced. 
 
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/08/21/business/law.php
 
IMO, this country very badly needs some protectionist legislation to reduce or eliminate this trend....or else our entire economy will be outsourced from under us.
 
candystripper  [sm=pole.gif]




JumpingJax -> RE: Credit Crunch Comes Home... (10/31/2008 6:43:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

OMG, JumpingJax...do you know how many of my friends have their hopes pined on transitioning into web design? It's being outsourced how, exactly? How does a foreign national compete for English-speaking business? Is the price they set so low you cannot compete?



Language doesn't really matter.... From what I can tell the whole world is speaking English now. At least in the IT field.

Years ago the IT Industry was in a BOOM and there were more then enough jobs to go around for everyone. But now this industry has become extremely competitive.

Large companies have completely closed up the hosting business and overseas development shops are charging hourly rates that are as low as 7 – 10 an hour. Note that equates to an 80% discount over what I've been having to charge.









BeingChewsie -> RE: Credit Crunch Comes Home... (11/6/2008 2:22:34 PM)

 

Hi,

I'm curious how thing are going? Have you had any luck getting your HELOC opened up again? We have had great luck this week with 4 of our HELOC's turning on the spigott after several months of being bone dry and refusal after refusal for more money,..They said "approved" this week on properties we own in the midwest which have not increased in value..in fact they have dropped a little...I thought of you and your situation and wondered if you had re-approached your bank or another recently about another line of credit. Banks are loaning money, it is just much tighter out there right now. Hang in there and keep on your bank!


quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

So I own a small picture framing business in Northern Colorado.  The business is just over a year old and doing pretty well - slower and lower than my business plan projections, but still good enough to warrant continuance.

We have all heard about how the credit crunch is affecting small business. Well yesterday it hit home when my bank, Chase, canceled a home equity line of credit that was serving as a source of credit for the business.

We never missed or were late on a payment.  They just changed the rules, revalued our home and canceled our line unilaterally.

We are now in a terrible position, operating only on cash on hand.  The economy is the worst it has been in 70 years...

Our plan included using some of our retirement accounts if the business failed - those are now below the value of the debt we incurred opening the shop.

We are in the midst of a financial "perfect storm" that will very likely wipe us out.

Protect yourselves out there friends - it is rough sailing and boats are being lost...  [&o]





popeye1250 -> RE: Credit Crunch Comes Home... (11/6/2008 5:05:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

It's kind of shitty to hijack a personal thread like that with such blatant political propaganda, no?


Kittin, you and Me would never do that now, would we?

Hey! I bought a new scratch-off lottery ticket today called "Spread the Wealth" for $10.
I thought to myself; "Hey, how about some good ol' Obama socialism for Popeye!"
I lost my ten bucks.




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