Iraqi government

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MissSCD -> Iraqi government (10/26/2008 8:14:09 PM)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081025/ts_nm/us_iraq_raid;_ylt=AmM2KAxW7M3.mWexKYDCNDJh24cA *Why are we still there? They are breaking ties with the US over raid. We have lost over 4,000 troops, and they turn on us? We need our folks back home.* *Regards, MissSCD*

Real_Trouble -> RE: Iraqi government (10/26/2008 8:55:05 PM)
First - The Sunni's have been at odds with us since we got there. That's Saddam's old power base, and we knocked them off the top. Of course they don't like us. Second - We have lost 4,000 troops, but how many civilians (ie - non-insurgents or Iraqi military during the invasion) have we killed in Iraq? (Hint: More than 4,000) Third - We're inappropriately attempting to fight insurgents by doing precisely the things that both create more insurgents and tend to undermine the legitimacy of the actual government in Iraq. I, too, believe we should leave. Primarily because there won't be meaningful peace or progress while we stay.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Iraqi government (10/26/2008 10:22:45 PM)
Whether we should or should not have went is a moot point now. We're there. It's a vital region of the world in terms of energy supplies. Despite what you may believe, we can't run our country with wind and solar power. We need petroleum to keep things running. A massive civil war would destabilize the entire region in ways that have not been seen in modern times. It could potentially halt oil supplies from the Middle East. It wouldn't be good; it would be catastrophic. It's why we are still there, and it's a valid reason.

meatcleaver -> RE: Iraqi government (10/26/2008 11:41:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissSCD http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081025/ts_nm/us_iraq_raid;_ylt=AmM2KAxW7M3.mWexKYDCNDJh24cA *Why are we still there? They are breaking ties with the US over raid. We have lost over 4,000 troops, and they turn on us? We need our folks back home.* *Regards, MissSCD* Eer...you invaded them and caused countless deaths of innocent people in the process. They didn't invite you, you are there for their oil and that the region is vital to US interests. Why should they like you and why should they care how many Americans (or Brits for that matter) died in the process?

corysub -> RE: Iraqi government (10/27/2008 2:45:48 AM)
I could be wrong, but as I read it the comment you linked it was made by the head of the Sunni party, the dominant religious group in Anbar. I have not heard of any similar comment made by the "government" of Iraq. In the USA we have had the democrat party condeming Bush for years, saying we should leave Iraq immediately for years, and essentially not "talking to the government of the US". Heck, it's what won the democrat party control of Congress, in addition to the stupidity of the republican powers at the time. It's what politicians do. On the other hand, it's interesting to see people blame the USA for countless deaths and never bring up the genocide of the Sadaam regime of the Shite'. I guess the interpretation of genocide for some is like a buffet, you pick and choose the horror palatable to ones agenda.

MissSCD -> RE: Iraqi government (10/27/2008 7:22:27 AM)
Haven't you figured out that they are holding oil over our heads at gun point? If we leave, they will have to put it back into oil production. It is all about the black gold. In the beginning, I did not think that it was because I was still emotional towards 9/11; however, as we get deeper into this war, we seriously need to be free from it because we are accomplishing nothing by being there. We are broke because of it. *Regards, MissSCD* quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou Whether we should or should not have went is a moot point now. We're there. It's a vital region of the world in terms of energy supplies. Despite what you may believe, we can't run our country with wind and solar power. We need petroleum to keep things running. A massive civil war would destabilize the entire region in ways that have not been seen in modern times. It could potentially halt oil supplies from the Middle East. It wouldn't be good; it would be catastrophic. It's why we are still there, and it's a valid reason.

servantforuse -> RE: Iraqi government (10/27/2008 7:28:03 AM)
We are on our way out. 12 of 18 provinces in Irac have been turned over to their control. I think the doubters should talk to the soldiers coming home just what is happening over there. You certainly won't hear it in the liberal media...

meatcleaver -> RE: Iraqi government (10/27/2008 8:09:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: corysub On the other hand, it's interesting to see people blame the USA for countless deaths and never bring up the genocide of the Sadaam regime of the Shite'. I guess the interpretation of genocide for some is like a buffet, you pick and choose the horror palatable to ones agenda. I don't remember the USA being so concerned when Sadam was a US allie and Rumsfeld was glad handing him. Why wasn't rightwing Americans so concerned about the genocide then? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDABe8AOuCQ I'll answer my own question. Because rightwing Americans are up to their eyes in shitty dealings with abominable regimes when their is something in it for them.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Iraqi government (10/27/2008 8:19:02 AM)
quote: Haven't you figured out that they are holding oil over our heads at gun point? If we leave, they will have to put it back into oil production. It is all about the black gold. In the beginning, I did not think that it was because I was still emotional towards 9/11; however, as we get deeper into this war, we seriously need to be free from it because we are accomplishing nothing by being there. We are broke because of it. *Regards, MissSCD* How are they holding it over our heads? We are the ones that need oil to maintain our way of life. If a huge civil war erupts in Iraq, it will eventually draw neighboring countries into it. It's hard to pump and ready oil for export when there is a chaotic war going on. Iraq can't survive without the international community. You won't find people willing to do business there if a war like that erupts. It will be a disaster of epic proportions. We undertook this little adventure, and we can't just pack up and leave before the job is done.

Rever -> RE: Iraqi government (10/27/2008 8:29:26 AM)
Theirs an Iraqi Government now?

MissSCD -> RE: Iraqi government (10/27/2008 11:34:24 AM)
*slaveboy:* *I am keeping my distance from you because you keep showing up attacking my threads.* *Regards, MissSCD* quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou quote: Haven't you figured out that they are holding oil over our heads at gun point? If we leave, they will have to put it back into oil production. It is all about the black gold. In the beginning, I did not think that it was because I was still emotional towards 9/11; however, as we get deeper into this war, we seriously need to be free from it because we are accomplishing nothing by being there. We are broke because of it. *Regards, MissSCD* How are they holding it over our heads? We are the ones that need oil to maintain our way of life. If a huge civil war erupts in Iraq, it will eventually draw neighboring countries into it. It's hard to pump and ready oil for export when there is a chaotic war going on. Iraq can't survive without the international community. You won't find people willing to do business there if a war like that erupts. It will be a disaster of epic proportions. We undertook this little adventure, and we can't just pack up and leave before the job is done.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Iraqi government (10/27/2008 11:51:39 AM)
quote: *slaveboy:* *I am keeping my distance from you because you keep showing up attacking my threads.* *Regards, MissSCD* A little paranoid are we? Really, don't flatter yourself. I respond to a lot of threads on here. I looked and I've only responded to two of your threads, and I didn't attack you. I disagreed with you. If you don't know the difference, than you need to seriously think about getting some counseling. You're going to find yourself very unhappy if you expect everyone to agree with you.

kdsub -> RE: Iraqi government (10/27/2008 1:44:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou Whether we should or should not have went is a moot point now. We're there. It's a vital region of the world in terms of energy supplies. Despite what you may believe, we can't run our country with wind and solar power. We need petroleum to keep things running. A massive civil war would destabilize the entire region in ways that have not been seen in modern times. It could potentially halt oil supplies from the Middle East. It wouldn't be good; it would be catastrophic. It's why we are still there, and it's a valid reason. Just wondering slaveboyforyou...sense Iraq supplies us with a very small percent of our total oil imports couldn’t we do without imports from them altogether? As far as that goes couldn’t we…with a little hardship I admit…only use Canada, Mexico, friendly South American supplies, along with our own and not worry about Middle Eastern oil at all? Perhaps temporarily relax some of our clean air standards and use some of our soft coal for power and release some oil reserves until we get our alternative energy sources on line. Then pursue our diplomatic endeavors based on right or wrong not who has oil? Just a thought…I’d pay $8 a gallon or more for this to happen. Butch

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Iraqi government (10/27/2008 1:54:05 PM)
quote: Just wondering slaveboyforyou...sense Iraq supplies us with a very small percent of our total oil imports couldn’t we do without imports from them altogether? As far as that goes couldn’t we…with a little hardship I admit…only use Canada, Mexico, friendly South American supplies, along with our own and not worry about Middle Eastern oil at all? Perhaps temporarily relax some of our clean air standards and use some of our soft coal for power and release some oil reserves until we get our alternative energy sources on line. Then pursue our diplomatic endeavors based on right or wrong not who has oil? Just a thought…I’d pay $8 a gallon or more for this to happen. Butch Unfortunately, that's not the way it works Butch. Oil is traded on the world market. A disruption in the Middle East would affect supplies all over the world. Prices would go up, and it would be devestating to the economy. You maybe fine with paying $8/gallon, but I'm not. It would be difficult for our economy to recover from a blow like that. We're using coal now. We are using alternative energy sources, but we aren't going to be off petroleum anytime soon. The technology is not efficient enough for us to come off of oil. I doubt I will see that happen in my lifetime. Even if I do, I will be an old man.

kdsub -> RE: Iraqi government (10/27/2008 2:02:17 PM)
If we are not using Middle Eastern oil the price would go down not up...there would be an excess.. Yes we are using coal... expensive coal because of the clean air standards.. there is a lot cheaper coal out there and coal would not need to be shipped all over the country as it is now. You see I believe the hardship would only last a few years...There would be a massive investment in alternative sources and industry...Industry that would employ Americans. You mean to tell me you would not pay $8 a gallon to be out of the middle east mess? I would...Without the money they are receiving and funneling to terrorists that problem will fade away.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Iraqi government (10/27/2008 2:11:15 PM)
Butch, you're older than I am. I know you don't want to go back to the days of burning coal without standards. I'm too young to remember it, but I heard the stories about how horrible it was to live around those plants. I'm all for building new nuclear plants, but you know the resistance that gets. In my opinion, nuclear energy is the only way we can drastically reduce our dependence on oil. Oil prices would go up if there was a disruption in supply out of the Middle East. It goes up anytime there is the slightest hint of instability there. Terrorism wouldn't stop if Middle Eastern countries lost their primary income. When young men don't have any work, they tend to gravitate towards activities like terrorism and crime. It would be bad all around.

kdsub -> RE: Iraqi government (10/27/2008 2:36:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou Butch, you're older than I am. I know you don't want to go back to the days of burning coal without standards. I'm too young to remember it, but I heard the stories about how horrible it was to live around those plants. I'm all for building new nuclear plants, but you know the resistance that gets. In my opinion, nuclear energy is the only way we can drastically reduce our dependence on oil. Oil prices would go up if there was a disruption in supply out of the Middle East. It goes up anytime there is the slightest hint of instability there. Terrorism wouldn't stop if Middle Eastern countries lost their primary income. When young men don't have any work, they tend to gravitate towards activities like terrorism and crime. It would be bad all around. Do I look older...lol...Most of the pollution you are talking about in the old days was coal as household heating not electric generation. The reason for terrorism against us will go away if we can fairly pursue foreign policy and not worry what will happen to our oil supply. It just takes will to change our policies. Nuclear energy scares me…It only takes one accident to kill thousands and make a good part of the country uninhabitable for centuries…as the accident in Russia has shown. Not sure it is worth it. Butch

Sanity -> RE: Iraqi government (10/27/2008 3:10:53 PM)
The problem with your idea is that the oil market is global, and so any serious cut in production anywhere causes prices to spike everywhere. And you can't just call out, "Stop gas prices at eight dollars a gallon" and have that happen, it could as easily go to sixteen dollars a gallon if the conditions are right. As we've all recently learned, a lot of the price of the barrel of oil is speculation, and so if there were domino wars in the Middle East causing a serious shortage prices could potentially skyrocket and we could all be screwed bad. And the problem isn't as much as what you as an individual think you can can afford to pay, it's more a question of what society can afford. Farmers need fuel to run their equipment and to ship their harvests, and a lot of their fertilizers and other necessary chemicals are oil dependent. Anything that is mined or harvested or manufactured, everything that is transported... in other words everything becomes more expensive. Fishing trawlers become more expensive to operate... just name it. So essentially our money becomes less valuable. People on fixed incomes suffer terribly when fuel costs skyrocket - imagine what double digit inflation does to the poorest people in third world countries, living on around a dollar a day... or even people here, getting by on minimum wage, or the elderly trying to get by with just their social security. Even the "middle class" obviously feel the pinch with any serious cut in the oil supply. We need affordable energy, and like it or not oil is going to be a fundamental part of any energy equation for the foreseeable future.

SilverMark -> RE: Iraqi government (10/27/2008 3:17:45 PM)
Succinct and complete and well thought out post Sanity....Damn, did I just write that?

kdsub -> RE: Iraqi government (10/27/2008 3:44:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity The problem with your idea is that the oil market is global, and so any serious cut in production anywhere causes prices to spike everywhere. And you can't just call out, "Stop gas prices at eight dollars a gallon" and have that happen, it could as easily go to sixteen dollars a gallon if the conditions are right. As we've all recently learned, a lot of the price of the barrel of oil is speculation, and so if there were domino wars in the Middle East causing a serious shortage prices could potentially skyrocket and we could all be screwed bad. And the problem isn't as much as what you as an individual think you can can afford to pay, it's more a question of what society can afford. Farmers need fuel to run their equipment and to ship their harvests, and a lot of their fertilizers and other necessary chemicals are oil dependent. Anything that is mined or harvested or manufactured, everything that is transported... in other words everything becomes more expensive. Fishing trawlers become more expensive to operate... just name it. So essentially our money becomes less valuable. People on fixed incomes suffer terribly when fuel costs skyrocket - imagine what double digit inflation does to the poorest people in third world countries, living on around a dollar a day... or even people here, getting by on minimum wage, or the elderly trying to get by with just their social security. Even the "middle class" obviously feel the pinch with any serious cut in the oil supply. We need affordable energy, and like it or not oil is going to be a fundamental part of any energy equation for the foreseeable future. Sanity I’ll admit I have no expertise in economics, do you?…I’m not talking about an immediate cut in production…just a shift where we get our oil. Remember we are only talking a 20 to 30 percent shift. The impact of that shift can be greatly reduced by the options I described above. I really don’t care what Saudi Arabia does with its extra oil.. maybe they can turn oil into food in the way we turn food into oil. The whole Idea in my suggestion is not to give a rats ass about domino wars in the Middle East…That is our problem and has been for years…we’ve let oil cloud our fair judgment. I remember you and others saying how the cost of oil was a true reflection of supply and demand…Now we see it was just speculation...so I do find it hard to believe all you say now. I don’t believe there would be any long-term shortage of energy with a comprehensive energy plan. Butch

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