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RE: Ron Paul interview by John Stozel' - 12/5/2008 6:35:50 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Ken,  I think the states can handle regulations all by their self.  We do not need soviet central power.  such power can not last - for it is top heavy and will  fall.

How many states rights are there?    NONE!

The states have to sue the fed to have stricter or lighter rules.  This is not self rule. It is not self determination.   It is not freedom.   It is not liberty.

But you know what? Short of a nuclear bomb the states WILL SECEDE in my lifetime.

It could be as many as 7 regions.  The folks will actually be better off this way.   We the people WILL BE GREATER this way.

Wether you like it or not,  the revolution has started.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Ron Paul interview by John Stozel' - 12/5/2008 7:12:45 AM   
Truthiness


Posts: 251
Joined: 11/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

That's just wrong. Ron Paul has repeatedly introduced federal legislation that would have criminalized accidental miscarriage and made all abortion first degree murder and force all states to treat it as such.


Umm...

"the federal government has no authority whatsoever to involve itself in the abortion issue."  - Ron Paul.

Looking up this legislation, one sees that Ron Paul introduced the "Sanctity of Life Act" which defines life as starting at conception, but doesn't force the states to treat anything as first degree murder.  You're vastly exaggerating Ron Paul's positions/legislation.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Ron Paul interview by John Stozel' - 12/5/2008 7:22:09 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Are you a bloke, Truthiness?

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Ron Paul interview by John Stozel' - 12/5/2008 7:23:01 AM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline 		The Revolution has started?.....and no one told Me?.....
Damn!
Wonder which side I am on?...is it South vs. North again?.... East vs. West?...has Vegas succeeded yet?...
Where's that gun thread maybe I need to buy one?
No one ever tells me anything!


(in reply to Truthiness)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Ron Paul interview by John Stozel' - 12/5/2008 8:12:28 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

That's just wrong. Ron Paul has repeatedly introduced federal legislation that would have criminalized accidental miscarriage and made all abortion first degree murder and force all states to treat it as such.


Umm...

"the federal government has no authority whatsoever to involve itself in the abortion issue."  - Ron Paul.

Looking up this legislation, one sees that Ron Paul introduced the "Sanctity of Life Act" which defines life as starting at conception, but doesn't force the states to treat anything as first degree murder.  You're vastly exaggerating Ron Paul's positions/legislation.

I've read the actual bill. Making life start at conception means intentionally ending that life is first degree murder. The states would have no options. Don't believe what he claims about the bill, read the bill and consult with a decent constitutional scholar if you still don't see how it doesn't do what he claims it does.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Ron Paul interview by John Stozel' - 12/5/2008 10:32:48 AM   
Truthiness


Posts: 251
Joined: 11/27/2008
Status: offline 		I've read the bill too.  It opens the door for further legislation that could do what you claim, but doesn't do it in and of itself. 

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Ron Paul interview by John Stozel' - 12/5/2008 3:34:50 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Here's the relevant text
quote:


SEC. 2. FINDING AND DECLARATION.

    (a) Finding- The Congress finds that present day scientific evidence indicates a significant likelihood that actual human life exists from conception.


    (b) Declaration- Upon the basis of this finding, and in the exercise of the powers of the Congress--


      (1) the Congress declares that--


        (A) human life shall be deemed to exist from conception, without regard to race, sex, age, health, defect, or condition of dependency; and


        (B) the term `person' shall include all human life as defined in subparagraph (A); and

    So a fertilized egg is a legal person and receives all the rights and protections of any other person, see 14th ammendment. Therefore medical abortion is first degree murder and must be treated exactly like any other murder, see 14th ammendment again.

    Therefore as I previously stated Paul's claims are simply lies. His bill would give states no options at all in dealing with abortion.

(in reply to Truthiness)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Ron Paul interview by John Stozel' - 12/5/2008 3:39:10 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

Therefore as I previously stated Paul's claims are simply lies. His bill would give states no options at all in dealing with abortion.

Quite wrong.

It would, in fact, move the debate onto an ethically sound basis, unlike the sham ethics imposed by Roe v. Wade. Abortion itself could still be legislated as permissible by the states.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Ron Paul interview by John Stozel' - 12/5/2008 3:41:20 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Therefore as I previously stated Paul's claims are simply lies. His bill would give states no options at all in dealing with abortion.

Quite wrong.

It would, in fact, move the debate onto an ethically sound basis, unlike the sham ethics imposed by Roe v. Wade. Abortion itself could still be legislated as permissible by the states.

No. The 14th ammendment would preclude any legislation allowing for the definition of a class of people which it would be lawful to kill.

Go find an actual lawyer and get him to tell you what that section means.

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Ron Paul interview by John Stozel' - 12/5/2008 3:55:21 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		As a woman... as a foreign woman, accustomed to liberated medicine... I am getting increasinbly horrified at the will to curtail my rights, and those of my sisters, for the benefit of political gain. I cannot believe that today, in the XXIst century, people are still arguing that their ideology should prevail over my rights, and over what I should do with my womb. Enough, enough, ENOUGH. Ron Paul and all the others... leave us and our wombs alone, and deal with your own lives. I don't want you in MINE.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Ron Paul interview by John Stozel' - 12/5/2008 4:08:02 PM   
kidwithknife


Posts: 193
Joined: 9/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
Quite wrong.

It would, in fact, move the debate onto an ethically sound basis, unlike the sham ethics imposed by Roe v. Wade. Abortion itself could still be legislated as permissible by the states.

Either way, it still accepts the premise that the state (big states, little states, they're still states) should have the right to control women's bodies.

That's not a libertarian position.  But that would be because Ron Paul isn't really a libertarian, he's a conservative with economically libertarian views.

And yes, I know the Libertarian Party supported him.  But the statists took the LP over years ago.

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Ron Paul interview by John Stozel' - 12/5/2008 5:12:15 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Can I make a suggestion? Get laid man. Do something, anything. You are spending time listening to and reading BS by peddlers of conspiracy and paranoia and you're starting to sound as crazy as realone did.


http://www.thatminoritything.com/?p=127226  here is a musical on prop 8.    now that you mention it - I have been sexually charged this week.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Ron Paul interview by John Stozel' - 12/5/2008 5:19:16 PM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Therefore as I previously stated Paul's claims are simply lies. His bill would give states no options at all in dealing with abortion.

Quite wrong.

It would, in fact, move the debate onto an ethically sound basis, unlike the sham ethics imposed by Roe v. Wade. Abortion itself could still be legislated as permissible by the states.


Roe vs Wade imposes nothing. It simply allows women a choice. In many cases, a choice between legal, medically sound procedures vs the back alley quacks of the not so distant pass.


< Message edited by cjan -- 12/5/2008 5:22:14 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Ron Paul interview by John Stozel' - 12/6/2008 4:42:35 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

The Revolution has started?.....and no one told Me?.....
Damn!
Wonder which side I am on?...is it South vs. North again?.... East vs. West?...has Vegas succeeded yet?...
Where's that gun thread maybe I need to buy one?
No one ever tells me anything!




Where are you preparationwise?

10,000 people who attended the Ron Paul rally, which was a bigger event then the GOP, ....  the fight is self determination  vs the new world order.

under the new world order, you are not a person. you are an animal to be chipped, tracked and exploited.   what do you need to happen to realize this?

the time for setting policy tho has passed.  the spiral out to the bottem has started.    during the depression, a few countries still had the gold standard...not so this time.

what do you think that 11 bail outs mean?  the gutting of the constitution?    people who have their money swindled rise up and commit terrorism.    the war on terror is against you my dear friend.  wake up.

it is easy to critique it.  to go with no food for 30 days, and the public mind will then be tuned in. of course at that point, nothing can help the individual.

(in reply to SilverMark)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Ron Paul interview by John Stozel' - 12/6/2008 1:03:19 PM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline 		I think a lot of things....none have to do with a revolution inside the United States. I put no credence in the hysteria that a convicted felon and political cultist like your hero Larouche and others can create. They are simple architects of fear, and the more people feed into it them the more they propagate all the BS that some buy into and others do not....guess which one I am?

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Ron Paul interview by John Stozel' - 12/6/2008 1:29:26 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

As a woman... as a foreign woman, accustomed to liberated medicine... I am getting increasinbly horrified at the will to curtail my rights, and those of my sisters, for the benefit of political gain. I cannot believe that today, in the XXIst century, people are still arguing that their ideology should prevail over my rights, and over what I should do with my womb. Enough, enough, ENOUGH. Ron Paul and all the others... leave us and our wombs alone, and deal with your own lives. I don't want you in MINE.


Ah, Conservatives.....

Government should get out of our lives.....except for the areas where they should dominate our lives......

And they say this with straight faces.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Ron Paul interview by John Stozel' - 12/6/2008 4:15:02 PM   
Lorr47


Posts: 862
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

The Revolution has started?.....and no one told Me?.....
Damn!
Wonder which side I am on?...is it South vs. North again?.... East vs. West?...has Vegas succeeded yet?...
Where's that gun thread maybe I need to buy one?
No one ever tells me anything!




Since Blackwater made the largest purchase of small arms ammunition by a private party in history may I suggest you really arm yourself.  I know the only licensed seller of machine guns in Western Michigan.  He lives.........oh oh.  He lives in the same county that Prince is from.  Don't you just love it when they all know each other. Cozy.

< Message edited by Lorr47 -- 12/6/2008 4:49:08 PM >

(in reply to SilverMark)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Ron Paul interview by John Stozel' - 12/6/2008 4:20:09 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Why is it that so many folks have theories about how industries are playing us, but no one ever suspects the gun industry?

Oh yeah. They're just in business because of their belief in the Second Amendment. Same as the media and religion exist for their belief in the First Amendment.

P. T. Barnum was right--"There's a sucker born every minute."

(in reply to Lorr47)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Ron Paul interview by John Stozel' - 12/6/2008 4:20:10 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

The Revolution has started?.....and no one told Me?.....
Damn!
Wonder which side I am on?...is it South vs. North again?.... East vs. West?...has Vegas succeeded yet?...
Where's that gun thread maybe I need to buy one?
No one ever tells me anything!


I'm starting a chapter of the Weather Underground. All I need is a copy of "The Anarchists Cookbook".  

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to SilverMark)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Ron Paul interview by John Stozel' - 12/6/2008 4:24:01 PM   
kidwithknife


Posts: 193
Joined: 9/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
All I need is a copy of "The Anarchists Cookbook".  
I wouldn't.  The only person you'll be in danger of blowing up with the AC is yourself.  Um, or so I've heard.  I haven't read it or anything.  *shifty eyes*


_____________________________

We went to see the fall of Rome - I thought it would please us
To watch how the mighty go in a blaze of hubris
But I just stood there hypnotised by all the beautiful madness

(New Model Army, Into the Wind)

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 40
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