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RE: speach - 10/16/2008 8:31:05 AM   
VampiresLair


Posts: 1307
Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline 		Personally, I have always thought that a lot of the submissives and slaves tat used third person speach are trying to impress upon those they are talking to how selfless they are. Inside a relationship the Dominant will tell you what they wish to see/use. I prefer proper grammar when my Fox speaks. He is not allowed to use third person for that simple reason. I abhor slashspeak siplu ebcaue it makes things so difficult to read.

There is nothing in this lifestyle that is set in stone. What works for some will invariably not work for others at some level.

DV


_____________________________

Separately we are DiurnalVampire and DVsFox

10/18 Wedding date. 1 year and still blissfully happy

10/13/10 3 year anniversary of his becoming my Fox

Talk impolitely to me, baby - Thanks sunshinemiss



(in reply to MistressOfGa)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: speach - 10/16/2008 8:35:38 AM   
RealSub58


Posts: 1073
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shewhoserves

Hi
Being still new to the lifestyle, alot of things i dont know about, for one....... speach in the third person, can someone please explain the purpose?  i noticed both Dom/mes and sub/slaves peaking that way

                                                                                     thank You


Not to confuse you further, but on another site a woman speaks of herself not only in 3rd person but as an "it"...no identity.
As others have said..it is up to the those in relationship.
 

(in reply to shewhoserves)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: speach - 10/16/2008 8:39:30 AM   
RealSub58


Posts: 1073
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VampiresLair

Personally, I have always thought that a lot of the submissives and slaves tat used third person speach are trying to impress upon those they are talking to how selfless they are. Inside a relationship the Dominant will tell you what they wish to see/use. I prefer proper grammar when my Fox speaks. He is not allowed to use third person for that simple reason. I abhor slashspeak siplu ebcaue it makes things so difficult to read.

There is nothing in this lifestyle that is set in stone. What works for some will invariably not work for others at some level.

DV



Selflessness is the ability to put another's interests before your own.
This is a quality of character... to use it it as a form of pride is not selfless at all.

(in reply to VampiresLair)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: speach - 10/16/2008 9:10:08 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		My wife and I do not do this and have no need, really, for such things.  But I just got a great explanation of it from someone else on the gorean forums.  I think what had confused me in the past is, exactly as this person said, oft-times all that is done is a simple word replacement.  Such a thing is, in fact, shallow just as I had perceived it... an affectation.  However, this person presented a different view to me.  The purpose was not simply to swap words around and doing such was not really an adequate result.  Rather, the purpose was to refocus the subject of the sentence on the dominant rather than the submissive. 

I'm going out to dinner with my Master
This girl is going out to dinner with her Master

Master is taking his girl out to dinner.
Master is taking me out to dinner.

Now, I see the first two as identical and the second two as identical, but I see a significant difference between groups one and two.

Just another viewpoint.  There is also beth's rather simple and eloquent, "She speaks that way because it pleases her Master." 



_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to shewhoserves)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: speach - 10/16/2008 10:27:41 AM   
IvyMorgan


Posts: 729
Joined: 7/5/2007
From: Midlands, UK
Status: offline 		On occasion, it has been known for this poster to refer to herself as "Girl" and to also speak in the third person format.  Oftentimes, that is used as a tool to focus and calm a busy mind, and to drag her thoughts into the present to stop them becoming entangled in remembered occurances.

For this individual, speaking in third person does little to enhance her sense of serving/slavery/servitude, as she does not see the spoken word as being very much involved in that aspect of her life at all, unless the service she is being asked is literacy based, in which case, she is of the view that using common vernacular/the accepted language format and tone of the task is most appropriate, rather than something which could be viewed as affected or odd or misunderstood.

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: speach - 10/16/2008 10:33:18 AM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline 		This girl find the whole W/we U/us Y/ou and third person speech annoying as hell. The only person I have seen do it wtih grace and elegance is beth of Mercnbeth.  And yes IrishMist, I too have seen it quite frequently on the Gorean Boards.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

This girl has no clue what you're talking about...


_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to Aileen1968)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: speach - 10/16/2008 10:35:15 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VampiresLair

I prefer proper grammar when my Fox speaks. He is not allowed to use third person for that simple reason.

DV



See, now -this- is what I was referencing earlier. There is a perception within the BDSM community that 3rd-person speech is, somehow, a violation of the rules of grammar. Nothing could be further from the truth, when it is properly applied. 3rd-person speech is a common attribute of many expressions of English grammar. In fact, it is not possible to write an academic paper for publication that is -not- in 3rd person speech.

The problem with 3rd person speech, as far as I've noticed, is that many who use it do not bother to learn how to use it effectively and gracefully. 3rd-person speech is a completely legitimate verbal and written grammatical form. If one is to use it, then it is appropriate to be properly skilled in its presentation. If, as the dominant force in a relationship, one does not wish to make the effort to assure that one's property uses 3rd-person speech effectively and artistically, then it would, perhaps, be best to refrain from requiring its use.

If it is the submissive individual choosing to make use of the 3rd-person perspective, either for personal immersion into one's servitude or as an external display of one's willingness to submit and capacity for submission, then it is imperative upon such a submissive individual to make sure that xhe uses the form effectively and artistically, in order to assure that hir use does not irritate, but is, in fact, an enhancement of the presentation of hir perspective.

And if grammar bores you??? Avoid 3rd-person affectation and blotchy grammatical forms like the plague, or risk finding oneself as the brunt of jokes at the hands of a judgmental, opinionated, and occasionally rather inflexible and obstinate community.

Calla Firestorm

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 10/16/2008 10:38:08 AM >

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to VampiresLair)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: speach - 10/16/2008 10:40:56 AM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline 		People should talk as they want....I had a kajira..and she talked in the beginning in 3rd person..till I told her otherwise.
To me it did nothing....to others it does. People should do it..as it makes them happy.
It is mentioned in the Gorean books..so propably a lott of Goreans use it.
quote:

Captive of Gor, chapter 15, Ute issues the command "Speak as a slave!", meaning in the third person

Let them enjoy their lifestyle to the max.

quote:

  And if grammar bores you???


lets agree that grammar by defination is boring :P


< Message edited by JustDarkness -- 10/16/2008 10:57:48 AM >

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: speech - 10/16/2008 10:55:43 AM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		Personally, I am not a huge fan of speaking in the third person as I dislike the implication of lack of ego/objectification but if I knew that the person I was with found it hot, I would do it and I would derive pleasure from the fact that it pleased them. 
On the flip side of things, and acknowledging that each circumstance and interrelation is unique, I don't find a contemplation of having one speak to me in that fashion particularly appealling.  I enjoy spirit in submission and I like to hear "I" or "Your" because that dances closer to what is Mine and to intimacy. 
  Davan

(in reply to MistressOfGa)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: speach - 10/16/2008 12:17:39 PM   
tweedydaddy


Posts: 673
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline 		speach? didn't Popeye eat that?

(in reply to shewhoserves)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: speach - 10/16/2008 1:22:27 PM   
Usako


Posts: 697
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NYC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shewhoserves

so it is up to the individuals, not a set rule carved in stone,  thank You


Thank god it's not set in stone! It would drive me nuts. I, personally, find the third person crap (along with the slashy speak and upper/lower case letter crap) annoying. I've been happily raised reading normal English and grammar and find all that BDSM chat lingo just as bad as chat speak like u/ur/lyke/etc. If I see third person or slashy speak, whatever, I just refuse to read the post.

(in reply to shewhoserves)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: speach - 10/16/2008 1:30:09 PM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

If I see third person or slashy speak, whatever, I just refuse to read the post.


Why is that? It doesn't make the person stupid.

(in reply to Usako)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: speach - 10/16/2008 2:26:39 PM   
housemouse61


Posts: 60
Joined: 6/12/2008
Status: offline 		i tried that 3rd person speak when i first discovered "the lifestyle" and felt completely silly doing so.  It felt fake and unnatural.  i still don't care for it when i see others using it because i think it lends a fantasy quality to this thing that W/we do that turns me off.  And i'm one of those old fuddy duddies who prefers to remain firmly rooted in reality except for certain, special occasions.  *weg*  Fortunately for me, speaking in 3rd person is not something Master requires of me.  It's also fortunate for me that Master likes my nutty, witty and sometimes smart-assed personality.

Peace favor and blessed be,

nikki
Property of Cruel Desires


(in reply to shewhoserves)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: speach - 10/16/2008 2:34:56 PM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

My wife and I do not do this and have no need, really, for such things.  But I just got a great explanation of it from someone else on the gorean forums.  I think what had confused me in the past is, exactly as this person said, oft-times all that is done is a simple word replacement.  Such a thing is, in fact, shallow just as I had perceived it... an affectation.  However, this person presented a different view to me.  The purpose was not simply to swap words around and doing such was not really an adequate result.  Rather, the purpose was to refocus the subject of the sentence on the dominant rather than the submissive. 

I'm going out to dinner with my Master
This girl is going out to dinner with her Master

Master is taking his girl out to dinner.
Master is taking me out to dinner.



English 101  The subject in the sentance is dinner.  Sheesh  nuff siad

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: speach - 10/16/2008 2:46:02 PM   
Venatrix


Posts: 2238
Joined: 11/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

I'm going out to dinner with my Master
This girl is going out to dinner with her Master

Master is taking his girl out to dinner.
Master is taking me out to dinner.



English 101  The subject in the sentance is dinner.  Sheesh  nuff siad

BadOne


I hope you're better at sailing than you are at English lessons.

(in reply to SailingBum)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: speach - 10/16/2008 3:00:02 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

My wife and I do not do this and have no need, really, for such things.  But I just got a great explanation of it from someone else on the gorean forums.  I think what had confused me in the past is, exactly as this person said, oft-times all that is done is a simple word replacement.  Such a thing is, in fact, shallow just as I had perceived it... an affectation.  However, this person presented a different view to me.  The purpose was not simply to swap words around and doing such was not really an adequate result.  Rather, the purpose was to refocus the subject of the sentence on the dominant rather than the submissive. 

I'm going out to dinner with my Master
This girl is going out to dinner with her Master

Master is taking his girl out to dinner.
Master is taking me out to dinner.



English 101  The subject in the sentance is dinner.  Sheesh  nuff siad

BadOne


Wrong... "out to dinner" is a dependent clause.


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to SailingBum)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: speach - 10/16/2008 4:24:11 PM   
housemouse61


Posts: 60
Joined: 6/12/2008
Status: offline 		i better look this up because i thought "out to dinner" was a prepositional phrase. 

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: speach - 10/16/2008 4:25:56 PM   
OttersSwim


Posts: 2860
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline 		You people are -Out to Lunch- with your grammar!  

_____________________________

I am on a journey of authenticity and self.

(in reply to housemouse61)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: speach - 10/16/2008 4:27:20 PM   
natasha66


Posts: 321
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: NJ
Status: offline 		Sometimes i use it, sometimes i don't....depends on my mood that day.

_____________________________

"If you bother me again I shall visit you in the small hours of the night and put a bat up your nightdress".
~Basil Fawlty

Collared June 4th, 2008
Love is giving him the power to destroy you, but trusting him not to.



(in reply to MistressOfGa)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: speach - 10/16/2008 5:45:11 PM   
Usako


Posts: 697
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NYC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

quote:

If I see third person or slashy speak, whatever, I just refuse to read the post.


Why is that? It doesn't make the person stupid.


To me it does and it makes me feel stupid to try and decipher the nonsense. BDSM is no excuse to butcher the English language.

Perhaps I'm just a Grammar Nazi. *shrugs*


< Message edited by Usako -- 10/16/2008 5:46:43 PM >

(in reply to JustDarkness)
Profile   Post #: 40
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