Give it up! (Full Version)

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subtee -> Give it up! (10/8/2008 12:06:59 PM)

A question from last night's debate:

"Since WWII we have not been asked to sacrifice anything for our country except the blood of our heroic men and women. As president what sacrifices will you ask every American to make to help restore the American dream?"

In WWII there were black outs, women went to work outside the home (Rosie the Riveter), products were unavailable, rations and black outs were instated. There were victory gardens and service clubs; people bought war bonds and kept their mouths shut, all for the collaborative notion of helping with the war.

During the last three years of WWII, Americans needed ration stamps to purchase products such as meat, cheese, canned goods, sugar, butter, shoes and gasoline. A typical allocation of sugar was 12 ounces per week. Auto validation stamps permitted three gallons of gas a week. One pair of shoes a year was the norm between February 1943 and October 1945.*

These were some of the slogans the government used on collateral materials:

Food is a Weapon Don't Waste it! Buy Wisely-Cook Carefully-Eat it all.
Do with less so they'll have enough.
Have you really tried to save gas by getting into a car club?
Use it up–wear it out–make it do!
All fuel is scarce: plan for winter now!
Millions of troops are on the move…is your trip necessary?
Plant a victory garden: our food is fighting.


*http://www.nh.gov/nhsl/ww2/ww12.html

So, my questions are, what will or have you done to sacrifice for the war and/or for our economic meltdown?

Are you surprised that our government has not asked this of us? Please explain.

[edited for font funkiness]



pahunkboy -> RE: Give it up! (10/8/2008 12:15:32 PM)

I have become tighter with money if that is possible.

Im thinking of stocking up on some meds...  in case I cant not get them later.

I shop at outlet stores for food.  I grew my own tomatos which saved me maybe $40 THIS YEAR.



DMFParadox -> RE: Give it up! (10/8/2008 12:18:13 PM)

I'm growing veggies. Peppers, in particular, but if I can get away with it I think I'll try for some tomatoes. We've got the space here, definitely.



TabrisMaceth -> RE: Give it up! (10/8/2008 12:39:10 PM)

I, for one, support our troops by slapping on a bumper sticker that says such. I think I've done my part!

Seriously, wanna know why the government hasn't asked anything of us? Because the American public has very much turned into a bunch of greedy, self-centered motherfuckers. Yeah, I'm being a little pessimistic when I say that, but honestly, who's going to respond well if the government says it needs help from them? People think that the government is supposed to take care of them. Why else would anyone pay taxes and obey laws if they weren't getting anything out of it? Why else would the average citizen hand over any control of their lives unless they thought someone was going to handle all the big stuff, like wars and economic meltdowns?
It's not what you can do for your country anymore. It's what your country can do for you.

-Tabris



subtee -> RE: Give it up! (10/8/2008 12:43:39 PM)

I knew it!
Someone needs a hug!!!^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I believe (most, many) people would respond well to being asked.

[Edited. ]



CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Give it up! (10/8/2008 1:35:51 PM)

  • We've had a garden every year for the past 3 years. I also teach organic container gardening in the inner city (since lots have gotten so small that most people don't believe they can even -have- a garden any more).
  • We drive a hybrid. Even then, we only have one car for the household, and we carpool and combine trips. We've been a 'one car' household for the full 10 years that I've been with the House, and we've had a hybrid for half that time.
  • We've limited our travel, especially air travel, substantially this year. We're finding more things to do around home or around the neighborhood.
  • We've always been frugal about where money goes, and we tend not to waste anything. Both our girls have a love-affair going with the second-hand stores in our area... they'd rather shop there, build clothing from pieces they bought second hand, or make their own from scratch than buy pre-made.
  • I also am active in the Local Foods and Slow Foods movements, helping people to get better access to healthy foods from local farms and local small family farmers.
Every little bit helps. My parents lived through the big recession in the early 70s. My dad was out of work for almost 4 years, so I learned about gardening, canning, and making-do. My parents both went through the Great Depression, so the economic hard times didn't phase them -- they knew what they had to do to keep our family healthy, fed, and with a roof over our heads and shoes on our feet. It's going to be tough, though, for a lot of the folks under, say, 35 who have never really gone through anything like this before.

Calla Firestorm



pahunkboy -> RE: Give it up! (10/8/2008 1:38:42 PM)

with all the problems- I ask myself - what happens if THIS happens LOCALLY.  Some areas are worse then others.

due to the leveraging- the bail outs can not work.   if every known asset in the globe were worth 100$  we loaned out $1000.  this leaves $900 for which no real asset exists.   Now add to that the rate is more like 30 or 33 to 1 for "investment banks".   the books can never balance.  since there were never the said assets to BACK the paper.

in a way we a stupid enough to fall for it.

BTW for reading this post- I will add 12 points, to your bonus card, and double it since today is Wednesday.





OttersSwim -> RE: Give it up! (10/8/2008 2:25:12 PM)

I own a small business...



LaTigresse -> RE: Give it up! (10/8/2008 2:36:49 PM)

Well let's see, I already carpool, garden, can and freeze.

I try to eat everything on my plate (please note the size of my caboose)

I've offered to share my home with several female sub/slaves.....which would result in cutting down on all sorts of living costs.

I've already cut my bling buying back to almost nil......[:o]

I refurbished an old high milage economy car so that we will have to drive the truck less this winter (cuz the M3 sucks in snow).

I heat with pellets to cut back on LP usage and I already keep the house "cold enough to hang meat in!!" during winter, per some whiney ass family members.

Giving up chocolate would be dangerous.

I now buy wine by the box rather than the bottle.

I am already a tightass, not sure what more I can do.



Sanity -> RE: Give it up! (10/8/2008 2:47:46 PM)

I guess that's one major difference between Liberals like Tom Brokaw and American Conservatives. Brokaw believes that Americans needs to slither under rocks and resign themselves to third world status. Resign, forfeit,... hang our heads in shame for having nice homes, using energy and for eating well.

I remember how Jimmy Carter gave fireside chats while we suffered under him, how he told Americans that we need to put on sweaters and adjust our thermostats until it hurts. Barack Obama said in the debate that we can scare the Russians by conserving energy, which just means go into recession, really. Obama told Oregonians, and I quote, "We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times ... and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK,".

Conservatives say "America isn't through yet... we need to roll up our sleeves and get to work. Drill, drill, drill. Build clean coal plants and safe nuclear plants. Not only because American industry needs power, but we can't let let America's poor go without food and heat and air conditioning when the temperatures are extreme.

Why force them to suffer, and to sacrifice... as Brokaw and Obama and Carter insist? 



LadyEllen -> RE: Give it up! (10/8/2008 2:53:21 PM)

I'm sorry, but if the UK government asked UK workers to give up any more - it might just result in most giving up altogether.

There is now and has been for a while a definite line as to when its worth going to work or better to claim social benefits. I reckon its not worth any single person going to work unless they get minimum 14k per annum before tax - which is slightly more than national minimum wage guarantees and slightly over the combined value of all social benefits to which that person would be entitled.

If the tax bill goes up - as it must to meet the spending to bail out the banks - that line moves, making it for instance only worthwhile working rather than claiming if one gets 18k per annum before tax.

Meanwhile, with average income in the UK of around 22kpa then notwithstanding the creeping line referred to above, this doesnt buy anything more than basic living as things are - what exactly are the majority meant to give up?

Forgive me my cynicism, but if I thought for one moment this country and our constitution were worth giving things up for, I would - as things are I feel we have been taught well by the example of those who claim to be our leaders that this is all about what I can get out of it personally. And one thing's for sure - they wont be giving anything up soon.

E




LaTigresse -> RE: Give it up! (10/8/2008 2:56:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I guess that's one major difference between Liberals like Tom Brokaw and American Conservatives. Brokaw believes that Americans needs to slither under rocks and resign themselves to third world status. Resign, forfeit,... hang our heads in shame for having nice homes, using energy and for eating well.

I remember how Jimmy Carter gave fireside chats while we suffered under him, how he told Americans that we need to put on sweaters and adjust our thermostats until it hurts. Barack Obama said in the debate that we can scare the Russians by conserving energy, which just means go into recession, really. Obama told Oregonians, and I quote, "We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times ... and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK,".

Conservatives say "America isn't through yet... we need to roll up our sleeves and get to work. Drill, drill, drill. Build clean coal plants and safe nuclear plants. Not only because American industry needs power, but we can't let let America's poor go without food and heat and air conditioning when the temperatures are extreme.

Why force them to suffer, and to sacrifice... as Brokaw and Obama and Carter insist? 


I think America's poor have already been suffering and I doubt those are the people driving the rediculous SUV's, eating as much as they want and living in rediculously large, over heated homes. Just a hunch, I could be wrong.



Sanity -> RE: Give it up! (10/8/2008 3:01:51 PM)


It isn't the rich who will suffer when Obama gets his way, and cuts off America's energy supplies.

When we are forced to sacrifice, and don't kid yourself into thinking it's going to be a voluntary thing... who is it going to hurt really?

Certainly not the rich. Michelle Obama won't suffer, her mansion won't go cold...


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I think America's poor have already been suffering and I doubt those are the people driving the rediculous SUV's, eating as much as they want and living in rediculously large, over heated homes. Just a hunch, I could be wrong.




NeedToUseYou -> RE: Give it up! (10/8/2008 3:02:37 PM)

I'll sacrifice the federal government and our global empire for the country, that is the ultimate problem.



bipolarber -> RE: Give it up! (10/8/2008 3:07:11 PM)

Well, let's see...

Last few years I've run a local haunted house which gathered canned food for the homeless, and also split a portion of the profits toward sending supplies to the troops.

I've been a part of several charity auctions which helped to raise money for body armor (since I have a nephew over there, it was how I got started on this work)

Although not related, I did help out with support for the Katrina evacuees (still a sacrifice of time and effort, since the Bush Administration was perfectly happy to let people die, otherwise) I recently did the same with Gustav... luckily that was better prepared for. Many of those folks, you'll find, are friends and relations of people serving in the military.

I eat out regularly at resteraunts that donate to the troops on a regular basis. (Such as the local "On the Boarder" in Little Rock, Gesanos Pizza, and Vinos, when they have troop benefit events.)

And especially, I speak out about the assholes who sent them there, without adequate reason.

And I vote.




Sanity -> RE: Give it up! (10/8/2008 3:08:56 PM)

The Federal Government could stand to sacrifice way more than a little, but I wouldn't count on that happening under an Obama presidency. Admittedly that didn't happen under Bush either, but I think McCain is sincere when he pledges to kill earmarks.

The reason I think that is that he has a history of not taking them as a Senator - he has a proven record.


quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

I'll sacrifice the federal government and our global empire for the country, that is the ultimate problem.




subtee -> RE: Give it up! (10/8/2008 3:09:49 PM)

Aren't we the federal government?



bipolarber -> RE: Give it up! (10/8/2008 3:11:06 PM)

Sanity,

Neither will McCain, with his seven... (Ten? Twelve?) houses that he can't remember where they are located...

(Oh, and keep the slanted rhetoric coming... it's really entertaining to watch you pull this Ann Coulter crap.)



Sanity -> RE: Give it up! (10/8/2008 3:23:51 PM)


Whether yes or no, the Federal Government is morbidly obese. Obama says it should just eat the rich and shit free gold for everyone else, but schemes like that never last.

I've never gotten a job from a poor man... and if everyone is given gold, gold will be worthless.

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

Aren't we the federal government?






CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Give it up! (10/8/2008 3:45:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Whether yes or no, the Federal Government is morbidly obese. Obama says it should just eat the rich and shit free gold for everyone else, but schemes like that never last.

I've never gotten a job from a poor man... and if everyone is given gold, gold will be worthless.


It always bothers me to listen to people who are more worried about being part of the problem and making sure everyone knows that it's -someone else's fault- and -someone else's problem- than being part of the solution.

CFB







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