RE: Give it up! (Full Version)

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tweedydaddy -> RE: Give it up! (10/8/2008 4:31:03 PM)

I'm not putting the post I just wrote up on here as it was too emotional.
I'll just say that I fought in a war, in the Falklands and it was as bad as it can be.
Now and then, I still wake up screaming and in a state of mortal terror.
Thank God and LadyLove for her kind patience and understanding that this only happens once a year or so. I wish to every god there is that we were not in this current war, it's slowly bleeding us dry and this financial collapse cannot be unconnected from the huge financial cost of this conflict.
I just want to see those men and women come home.
I suppose having raised two boys of my own has made me soft.
Let's give all the military staff who leave the forces some commercial training and a grant to start a business, that'll lift the economy.



kdsub -> RE: Give it up! (10/8/2008 4:49:25 PM)

I think each American has been sacrificing for years and will continue to sacrifice. We have been using the majority of our taxes to support our armies and weapon development so we could provide the security for most of the free world since WWII.

In the mean time those under our military umbrella prospered like never before. Europe was able to rebuild its war torn cities... upgrade their infrastructures...provide short work weeks...holiday time well beyond the dreams of American workers...provide health care and welfare benefits... on and on. They could accomplish this because they did not have to maintain a large standing army... we did it for you.

The greatest sacrifice of America during this time was the blood of our children. We sacrificed more of our boys and girls in providing the world with freedom and safety then most other free countries combined.

Butch



LadyEllen -> RE: Give it up! (10/8/2008 5:06:02 PM)

Oh crikey. Not that old chestnut again!

That it did the European continent a favour is purely incidental - the US forces were there to defend US interests, plain and simple.

And meanwhile, despite the educational illumination provided by the Simpsons, (the "trillion dollar note"), the UK paid the US for what it acquired for the war effort (fine way to treat your friends) and used that money to rebuild Germany primarily (fine way to treat the enemy) - to support US interests.

E



TNstepsout -> RE: Give it up! (10/8/2008 5:11:30 PM)

That's a good point. I've been thinking along the same lines lately. It's too bad that the only thing that seems to get Americans on the same page is revenge. But, it would be nice if our general attitude toward our country could and would change to one of responsibility.



kdsub -> RE: Give it up! (10/8/2008 5:12:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Oh crikey. Not that old chestnut again!

That it did the European continent a favour is purely incidental - the US forces were there to defend US interests, plain and simple.

And meanwhile, despite the educational illumination provided by the Simpsons, (the "trillion dollar note"), the UK paid the US for what it acquired for the war effort (fine way to treat your friends) and used that money to rebuild Germany primarily (fine way to treat the enemy) - to support US interests.

E


LadyEllen no doubt it was for our own interest...I never said it wasn't...but Europe took advantage of it. We had the argument before about paying the debt...and you know the answer to that as well as I do...but I'm not talking about the WWII debt...I mean from 45 to today the US has kept it's military on a war footing...we've needed to...we have taken the lead in most ever skirmish and war since then.

PS... what about the bebt from WWI...damn the details

Butch



OneMoreWaste -> RE: Give it up! (10/8/2008 6:51:31 PM)

WWII was an all-out war. Even prior to developing the atomic bomb, we burned entire cities to the ground with engineered firestorms. The media didn't throw a pity party because two civilians were possibly killed as a result of what was alleged to be U.S. activity. Every resource we had, militarily, economically, and (sounds cheesy, but) emotionally went in to winning.

Until the administration shows that kind of dedication to accomplishing ANY worthwhile goal, I'm not giving a damn thing that isn't squeezed out of me by threat of imprisonment.



subtee -> RE: Give it up! (10/9/2008 10:35:56 AM)

~FR

One last post here, I guess. Once again, I seem to be more naiive than the average bear. I believed that people might be willing to collaborate toward a common goal of putting our economy back together. As I said, I assumed from the moment of the bombings of 9/11 to the beginning of the war in Afganistan and then Iraq that we would be at least asked to collectively collaborate in the individual ways in which we are able toward mutual goals for our own well being. Again with the economic collapse, I thought there might be something(s) we could be encouraged to work together for toward our shared interests.  

It seems to me bitterness and blame are easy; however, what I hear here is weariness and cynicism and I understand both. The Afgani war was basically abandoned, the Iraqi war was predicated on a lie and the Wall Street mess is greed, greed and more greed. (Not mine, of course, everyone else's.)

~sigh~



philosophy -> RE: Give it up! (10/9/2008 12:23:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

I believed that people might be willing to collaborate toward a common goal of putting our economy back together.



....but, but, but that would be anti-individualist. And anything that is anti-individualist is, by definition socialist/communist/pinko/liberal/anti-american........

Thatcher once said that there was no such thing as society. It's not true of the UK but it is becoming increasingly true of the US.




subtee -> RE: Give it up! (10/9/2008 12:41:03 PM)

Wanna start a commune?



philosophy -> RE: Give it up! (10/9/2008 12:59:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

Wanna start a commune?


...only if it's really geographically big, has diverse interests and living arrangements, has a centrally maintained and funded infrastructure, choices regarding where to get commodities from and decent cable. Oh, and let's call it a country instead of a commune [:D]



bipolarber -> RE: Give it up! (10/9/2008 1:33:17 PM)

Subtee,

If you start a commune, can you help me with making the tye dye t-shirts? And then maybe stomping some grapes for the collective's yearly wine supply.... (I have this fantasy...)



Irishknight -> RE: Give it up! (10/9/2008 5:49:27 PM)

Subtee, I want to start a commune.  I want to have milking goats, grow my own food and use solar and wind to power the whole thing.  We would have to pay for it by selling excess electricity and selling organically grown foods and such. 

Then of course would come the weekly sex parties.



Icarys -> RE: Give it up! (10/9/2008 6:20:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

Wanna start a commune?

In Alaska, sure.



OneMoreWaste -> RE: Give it up! (10/9/2008 7:11:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee
I believed that people might be willing to collaborate toward a common goal of putting our economy back together.


The American people collaborated in building that economy in the first place.

Then somebody broke it. Granted, a lot more than a single somebody was involved, but we're still talking about far less than 1% of the population.

Until we see some sort of punishment levied to make certain that the people who broke it won't just break the rebuilt economy, what's the point in rebuilding it?



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