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RE: Internal Enslavement, some specifics - 10/3/2008 9:01:47 PM   
NumberSix


Posts: 1378
Joined: 12/30/2006
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Well, I'm a man---- goddammit.

FEAR TO BLOW ME.

I gotta do something, right?

_____________________________

"Who are you?"
"The new Number Two."
"Who is Number One?"
"You are Number Six.".
"I am not a number — I am a free man!"

Be seeing you...

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Internal Enslavement, some specifics - 10/3/2008 9:24:32 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

It takes a pretty insecure person to need to do this as opposed to having them willingly choose to stay because you are worth following.


Or it takes an owner and a slave that wish to take that relationship even deeper. The worth following is part of the internal enslavement process.

quote:


It also takes a sub with a low self esteem to begin with, one without healthy boundaries who won't say "stop this now, it isn't what we agreed upon" during the beginning stages.


It has to do with trust, and that must be there throughout.

quote:


And I would like to say that calling it internal enslavement is a prettified way of presenting it. The more honest thing would be to call it by its vanilla name, Stockholm Syndrome.


It means that the enslavement no longer comes from external stimulus and such, it is an integral part of the slave.

Some of the things not mentioned, is that many in M/s relationships speak of the trust and devotion, well just take that to a few more levels and this is what you have.

The stronger willed the slave, the better the relationship because that will is still there, it is just under the direction and for the benefit of the owner.

Internal enslavement is not done against someone's will, and rarely takes with most individuals. It requires a very specific nature within a person for it to come to fruition. So many make it out to be the boogey man, and believe it must be horrible. When I am out with my property in public, many people comment on how happy we look.

I suppose the different strokes and the respect of someone else's lifestyle is only applied if you agree with it. Funny how so many in these various lifestyles react to something like this, the same way vanilla folks react to BDSM. Isn't that hypocritical.

As far as being dangerous, it can be, just like a gun can be. It takes a responsible owner for it to be the beautiful thing that it can be.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Internal Enslavement, some specifics - 10/3/2008 9:32:13 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

There's been a variety of posts I've seen on and off talking about "Internal Enslavement". Invariably, these posts are presented in vague generalities at which point other people argue against them in more vague generalities. So I thought I'd write up a specific, step-by-step cheat sheet. Here's at least one way in which it can be done supported by actual scholarly research rather than apocryphal stories told in darkly lit internet forums.
This definition for Internal Enslavement comes from http://www.enslavement.org.uk

We aim to develop practical techniques which use detailed examination of a female slave's thoughts, emotions and past experiences to establish and maintain a solid and inescapable state of ownership.

Before I get started with specifics, I'd like to make clear that this is not something I would ever do myself, nor is it something I find ethically or morally sound. But yes, I do believe it can be done. Here's one take on it...

#1) Don't tell the slave

Lead the slave, step-by-step, through this excercise without fully divulging the final end-state. Claim that "They are not ready yet" to hear information that would, perhaps, cause them to reconsider. Most people would not agree if the actual truth were spelled out... "I'm going to change your worldview to the point where you are totally obedient to me. You will, if I so desire it, kill your friends and family, even yourself. You will NEVER be able to leave me no matter what I do to you or with you. I may give you away to someone else who you will also NEVER be able to leave." Honestly, that's going to be a really tough sell for most well adjusted humans. We're definitely going to want to go down this primrose path one step at a time.


Completely disagree with this section. There must be a willingness and acceptance on the slave's part for the process to begin.

quote:


#2) Take control of the slaves environment.

We're going to want to minimize outside influences here since friends, family, and a lot of other BDSM'ers might well say, "Woah Sally! That's kind of freaky." So, cut off contact with undersireable influences (read that as everyone who doesn't agree that this is a good thing. Identify role models that model the desired new thought processes. Detach the slave from society... job, et.al. As the slave's old support structure erodes, feed their own doubts about the old thought patterns. Suppress any questions that arise from the attack on the old thought processes.


To an extent yes, but friends and family are necessary to the emotional well being of the slave. Internal enslavement can still occur with these contacts.

quote:


#3) Keep the slave off balance

Institute lots of nonsensical and complex ritual. Ensure that the slave is never getting it right. Randomly withdrawing and providing emotional connection can be very efective here. Mess with the slave's sleep cycle. Cause them to do unfamiliar things and be in unfamiliar situations. Take away cherished pets. In general, we need to get the slave flexible and instilling a ton of confusion is the perfect way to do that.


Not part of the recipe that I follow and still get the same effects. This actually causes diminishment of the slave's emotional health.

quote:


#4) Institute a series of rewards, punishments, and experiences to reinforce the new thought patterns..

Meet doubts with disapproval, punishment, or rejection. When questions are asked, make sure the slave understands that there is something inherently wrong him or her for even having the question. You know, a twue slave wouldn't be asking this question. Twue slaves obey without question. Self-hynpotic techniques can be used here quite effectively. Have the slave look in the mirror for 20 minutes daily and repeat some mantra.


This again is bullshit for what actual Internal Enslavement is. Again what you are preposing is damaging to the property. A slave is not a robot, and the desire to please and obey should be stressed.

quote:


#5) Declare that the Master is always right
Thereby ensuring that no successful challenge to the new world view can happen. Ensure that the slave understands that they are always incorrect. Ensure that the slave understands that the Master is not only always right, but always just. Leverage guilt feelings to curtail incorrect thoughts.


Are you really serious here?

quote:


Overall, assuming a trusting and reasonably submissive slave to start with, the whole process is neither complicated nor difficult. All that you're doing is deliberately eroding the pre-existing worldview through a variety of techniques, mostly encompassed by deliberately keeping the slave off balance and unsure of herself. Then, replace the ensuing confusion with a new worldview reinforced by the social group, reward structure, and authority figure.

Random food for thought.


Yeah this is pretty damaging to your property. The emotional damage that you cause with this, will make the property less valuable and not more valuable. There is also no initial consent and understanding by the slave that they will be going through this process.

The recipe above would work for a short while, it would diminish the mental capacity of the slave, and not to mention several portions may well be illegal and actionable.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Internal Enslavement, some specifics - 10/4/2008 3:29:16 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
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I read lots of the internal slavery articles years ago and don’t mean to disparage it much as I probably did earlier. I understand it is not an evil modus operandi where women are chosen randomly and enslaved against their will. Hell, if that really worked, I may sign up for it. Heh. But seriously, anything on D/s is interesting to read even if I don’t agree with it.

Is it based on sound psychology? Probably, but I’m sure we all pretty much know what it’s about, but hesitate to use the methods because both the slave and the Master understand it is a rigid process that doesn’t quite fit personal relationships.

It was interesting that a few of us saw it as how we were treated in basic training in the military and that may be the problem with the technique. It is suited more for large groups where the relationship is a structured, impersonal one. That’s the flaw with thinking it will work with one on one training.

If there was one male drill sergeant assigned to every female trainee and the drill sergeant cared about his charge on a personal level, don’t you think the training techniques would be much different?

< Message edited by ExSteelAgain -- 10/4/2008 3:30:07 AM >


_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Internal Enslavement, some specifics - 10/4/2008 9:01:41 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

The "internal" in internal enslavement refers to the fact that the bonds keeping the slave enslaved are internal, not external. 


I know very well what the internal refers to.... however... unfortunately... there are many that use the fancy phrase and are actually referring to external stimuli to create those bonds to be put on a person.  I don't see internal slavery as creating bonds to be put on  a person. 

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Internal Enslavement, some specifics - 10/4/2008 10:50:14 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain
It was interesting that a few of us saw it as how we were treated in basic training in the military and that may be the problem with the technique. It is suited more for large groups where the relationship is a structured, impersonal one. That’s the flaw with thinking it will work with one on one training.

If there was one male drill sergeant assigned to every female trainee and the drill sergeant cared about his charge on a personal level, don’t you think the training techniques would be much different?


Ah, interesting point Steel.  The articles were written for a group context (cults).  You are correct, though, that military training does some of these same things and for the same reasons.  I did examine this pretty closely in my head specifically related to my wife and I and concluded that it'd work.  With my wife, I would accomplish the same basic steps but with more love.  For instance, there are lots of pleasant ways to keep her off balance, no need to go to nastiness. The only reason I won't do it is that it violates my notions of consent and therefore decency.  Heh, now that I think of it, the OTHER reason I won't do it is that I kind of like the woman I married 13 years ago and I can't really understand why I'd want to do such an overhaul on her personality. 

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Internal Enslavement, some specifics - 10/5/2008 4:36:45 PM   
PainCompliant


Posts: 57
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline
For cult conditioning add an unbalanced diet and sleep deprivation.

For internal enslavement, implied but not stated in Leadership's original post, make the slave as dependent on the Master for basic needs as practical

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Internal Enslavement, some specifics - 10/5/2008 6:26:34 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

It takes a pretty insecure person to need to do this as opposed to having them willingly choose to stay because you are worth following.


Or it takes an owner and a slave that wish to take that relationship even deeper. The worth following is part of the internal enslavement process.

quote:


It also takes a sub with a low self esteem to begin with, one without healthy boundaries who won't say "stop this now, it isn't what we agreed upon" during the beginning stages.


It has to do with trust, and that must be there throughout.

quote:


And I would like to say that calling it internal enslavement is a prettified way of presenting it. The more honest thing would be to call it by its vanilla name, Stockholm Syndrome.


It means that the enslavement no longer comes from external stimulus and such, it is an integral part of the slave.

Some of the things not mentioned, is that many in M/s relationships speak of the trust and devotion, well just take that to a few more levels and this is what you have.

The stronger willed the slave, the better the relationship because that will is still there, it is just under the direction and for the benefit of the owner.

Internal enslavement is not done against someone's will, and rarely takes with most individuals. It requires a very specific nature within a person for it to come to fruition. So many make it out to be the boogey man, and believe it must be horrible. When I am out with my property in public, many people comment on how happy we look.

I suppose the different strokes and the respect of someone else's lifestyle is only applied if you agree with it. Funny how so many in these various lifestyles react to something like this, the same way vanilla folks react to BDSM. Isn't that hypocritical.

As far as being dangerous, it can be, just like a gun can be. It takes a responsible owner for it to be the beautiful thing that it can be.

.  100% agreed, Orion.  I usually agree with DesFip's posts but this was kinda jaw-dropping and judgmental.  Tossing around "insecure," "low self esteem," and "Stockholm Syndrome" just because it's not your style is really kinda uncalled for honestly.  We're all entitled to our opinions, of course, but that's putting some pretty nasty labels on things that obviously aren't clearly understood.  Great post, Orion.................luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 48
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