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Thankyou SimplyMicheal - 9/29/2008 12:16:18 AM   
needlesplease


Posts: 21
Joined: 8/24/2008
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		I had the opportunity to be at the Folsom Fringe this last weekend... wow, what an experience. I played hard, got pierced with 508 needles, and met so many wonderful, quality people. I will certainly add this event to my 'to-do' list. I finished the whole thing off with the Folsom St. Faire... which as any who have been know, is an experience all of it's own. Good times.
I love the community of kinksters I have begun to call my own... birds of a feather and all that. National Master & slave winners of 2008, Master Rick and slave tina of Pleasurebound, continue to impress me with their friendliness and goodmanship in our community, it was great to see them again. 
I keep running into one issue which bothers me at the core of my being though. There seems to be an intollerance among some of us about sexual preferences and bounderies. While it is acceptable... nay... it may be the norm in our community, for folks to be polyamorus and bisexual... (and I personaly celebrate anyone's tastes and desires, ain't that what we are here for?) there seems to be an intollerance for those of us that are heterosexual  and/or momogomous. Why is it that some folks will bash others with their sexual preferences, under the umbrella of sexual freedom?
I was told this weekend by someone well respected and long standing in our community that I was...and I quote... "A chicken shit" for not wanting her to cane my ass. Forgive me, but the last time I checked I was very effing straight, and I NEVER felt the desire to submit to a woman. But wait... enter the knight in shinning armor... our own SimplyMicheal, who just happened to be caning me at that moment, placed himself between this woman and myself so she could not just walk up and help herself... which to all appearances and verbage, she was about to do. He also defended me further, after I asked this woman if she thought I was entitled to my sexual preferences. Bravo to the man who upholds with honor, a persons right to consent... isn't that the essence of our tribe? All things are possible with consent? Gosh I hope so... otherwise my friends... we are all in dire straights...
Something similar happened to me in my private dungeon at home a few weeks ago. A bisexual poly woman berated me for relating that I do not approach m/f couples and ask if the man will play with me. To me it is a respect issue... I will not intrude on the energy of a couple. If someone is poly, I know that they will let me know by way of conversation... it is not my style to intrude. I am by no means a prude my friends, I am single and like to play casually, but I do not feel comfortable just barging into someone else's vibe like a damn bull in a china shop, that's just not my style, I like to lay back and observe, maybe chat a little and get a feel for things. This poly lady said  "I am trying to understand your statement, because I am poly". Ehh? What part of 'respect issue'and 'not my style' don't you understand? She thought it best for me to act first and think later... gosh, and it's taken me so long to think first and act next... are you sure?
It boils down to this... I have no problem voicing my needs, desires and limits... I respect yours, all of yours, all of you, and I hope you can all do the same for me...

< Message edited by needlesplease -- 9/29/2008 12:17:51 AM >
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Thankyou SimplyMicheal - 9/29/2008 1:58:08 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Rudeness occurs in life.  Its sucky I know but it occurs.  It isn't a scene thing or confined to wiitwd.  It is also subjective - the woman may not of perceived her actions as rude or disrespectful, but informative.
 
From the POV of a monogamous straight female I completely get the pressure and assumptions that come when you explain your personal choices or that submissive types are always wutomatically bi.  As half of a monogamous couple, it is pretty standard to get the whole 'you must want a third at some point' thang or have people assume you will automatically play with others.  People pretty much ask if there is something 'wrong' because you don't or assume your insecure.  It really is sometimes an issue that some kink or preference just isn't kinky enough in some peoples eyes.
 
the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Thankyou SimplyMicheal - 9/29/2008 3:46:24 AM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		I don't see this necessary as a 'lifestyle' thing, it's more a society thing. Some people just don't 'get it' when it comes to tact, discretion and manners.

I'm having a similar situation at the moment with a building company who have the job of replacing my bathroom ceiling (the flat upstairs had a burst pipe). At the moment I'm refusing to let the workmen come and do the work. You see I refuse to be 'that bloke who's trying to become a woman', 'him', or even 'that sex change living on the first floor.' Just been trying to make headway over the phone. They're offering to find me a female to do the job. There appears to be a mental block when it comes to pointing out that it isn't my problem but their problem, and a very minor one at that. I don't really need this sort of drama. In fact if it's going to be such an issue I'll replace the bathroom ceiling myself.

This sort of thing happens every so often. I'm used to it.

This is also why I stopped actively seeking in the BDSM community. I've reached a point where I just got tired of having to explain myself, and so now I just don't bother. It just doesn't matter any more and it isn't worth the hassle. But yet I sometimes think back and have to wonder whether it has always been this way. Maybe not. But maybe I'm just being nostalgic here.

Therefore I can relate to the OP, though I'm not heterosexual. This is why I'm so against references to "The Lifestyle", "The Alternative Lifestyle" and BDSM being a "community of like-minded people". You don't really have to go far, or indeed read that much here, to realise that this really isn't the case.

I would be more inclined to go with 'a community of potentially like-minded people', or even potentially like minded people', but there are those (and I know from some of the messages I receive from the other side) who have difficulties understanding any word longer than five or six letters. If I were more sadistic I'd even go as far to say a few are unable to get their heads round any concept not summed up by a three letter word. But I'm not..

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RE: Thankyou SimplyMicheal - 9/29/2008 3:53:16 AM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline 		I'm glad you had SM there to drive off the vultures. :)

Some people feel that just because they have been hanging around for a while, they have a right to use the people around them. Case in point, Captain Tact, who when C and I were playing in public for the first time, proceeded to pull up a chair less than a foot away from us, and try to tell C how to run things.

Some peeps just need a refresher lesson in personal space, and respecting boundaries. Don't feel shy about correcting them, it's like letting a puppy pee all over the floor if you let it go.




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HBIC



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Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Thankyou SimplyMicheal - 9/29/2008 3:53:30 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		It would have been just as rude for another man to walk up and start caning you as if this woman had. To do so without permission is assault, to make it acceptable requires consent.

Beyond that, if you knew how much mail I've received over the years from men saying they would teach me to be bisexual. WTF? This is innate, not something that can be learned. What's even weirder is that many of these men claim this would still be monogamous, they don't think another woman 'counts', which is rude to the other woman.



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Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to stella41b)
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RE: Thankyou SimplyMicheal - 9/29/2008 5:03:59 AM   
pixidustpet


Posts: 857
Joined: 6/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

It would have been just as rude for another man to walk up and start caning you as if this woman had. To do so without permission is assault, to make it acceptable requires consent.

Beyond that, if you knew how much mail I've received over the years from men saying they would teach me to be bisexual. WTF? This is innate, not something that can be learned. What's even weirder is that many of these men claim this would still be monogamous, they don't think another woman 'counts', which is rude to the other woman.




its not that much better if you *are* bisexual.  then you get "then why dont you wanna do me and my g/f?"  um, cause i am not attracted to just anything that breathes? 

or as the great saying goes, "i'm poly and bi.  that still doesnt mean i'm going to sleep with you!"

kitten

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Thankyou SimplyMicheal - 9/29/2008 7:21:52 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		No more rude than straight sub/slave/bottom, men constantly pushing a lesbian dominant to "use" them.

People are people, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, dominant or submissive. Some were raised with manners, others......not so much so. Don't be a fool to assume that, just because people like a little slap tickle, they are going to be any different.


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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Thankyou SimplyMicheal - 9/29/2008 7:24:33 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pixidustpet


its not that much better if you *are* bisexual.  then you get "then why dont you wanna do me and my g/f?"  um, cause i am not attracted to just anything that breathes? 

or as the great saying goes, "i'm poly and bi.  that still doesnt mean i'm going to sleep with you!"

kitten


I'm straight. That doesn't mean I do anything in pants. Some people just wouldn't get a clue if you hit them over the head with it.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to pixidustpet)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Thankyou SimplyMicheal - 9/29/2008 7:27:37 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

It would have been just as rude for another man to walk up and start caning you as if this woman had. To do so without permission is assault, to make it acceptable requires consent.



Not to mention that there as a scene between SimplyMichael and needlesplease at the time.  Walking into a scene and caning someone is beyond rude.  Heck, I've been chewed out for simply making eye contact with a bottom during a scene.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Thankyou SimplyMicheal - 9/29/2008 8:43:10 AM   
scarlethiney


Posts: 492
Joined: 8/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesplease

I had the opportunity to be at the Folsom Fringe this last weekend... wow, what an experience. I played hard, got pierced with 508 needles, and met so many wonderful, quality people. I will certainly add this event to my 'to-do' list. I finished the whole thing off with the Folsom St. Faire... which as any who have been know, is an experience all of it's own. Good times.
I love the community of kinksters I have begun to call my own... birds of a feather and all that. National Master & slave winners of 2008, Master Rick and slave tina of Pleasurebound, continue to impress me with their friendliness and goodmanship in our community, it was great to see them again. 
I keep running into one issue which bothers me at the core of my being though. There seems to be an intollerance among some of us about sexual preferences and bounderies. While it is acceptable... nay... it may be the norm in our community, for folks to be polyamorus and bisexual... (and I personaly celebrate anyone's tastes and desires, ain't that what we are here for?) there seems to be an intollerance for those of us that are heterosexual  and/or momogomous. Why is it that some folks will bash others with their sexual preferences, under the umbrella of sexual freedom?
I was told this weekend by someone well respected and long standing in our community that I was...and I quote... "A chicken shit" for not wanting her to cane my ass. Forgive me, but the last time I checked I was very effing straight, and I NEVER felt the desire to submit to a woman. But wait... enter the knight in shinning armor... our own SimplyMicheal, who just happened to be caning me at that moment, placed himself between this woman and myself so she could not just walk up and help herself... which to all appearances and verbage, she was about to do. He also defended me further, after I asked this woman if she thought I was entitled to my sexual preferences. Bravo to the man who upholds with honor, a persons right to consent... isn't that the essence of our tribe? All things are possible with consent? Gosh I hope so... otherwise my friends... we are all in dire straights...
Something similar happened to me in my private dungeon at home a few weeks ago. A bisexual poly woman berated me for relating that I do not approach m/f couples and ask if the man will play with me. To me it is a respect issue... I will not intrude on the energy of a couple. If someone is poly, I know that they will let me know by way of conversation... it is not my style to intrude. I am by no means a prude my friends, I am single and like to play casually, but I do not feel comfortable just barging into someone else's vibe like a damn bull in a china shop, that's just not my style, I like to lay back and observe, maybe chat a little and get a feel for things. This poly lady said  "I am trying to understand your statement, because I am poly". Ehh? What part of 'respect issue'and 'not my style' don't you understand? She thought it best for me to act first and think later... gosh, and it's taken me so long to think first and act next... are you sure?
It boils down to this... I have no problem voicing my needs, desires and limits... I respect yours, all of yours, all of you, and I hope you can all do the same for me...


I applaud you for having the strength of your convictions to stand up for yourself and having the integrity to not "Assume" as many do that some of us don't always need to be part of the crowd consensus.
We have been for the most part by choice a monogamous couple. We made this choice mainly because the drama and lack of integrity we've experienced in the past just isn't something we're willing to accept when we have considered adding a play partner or couple to our relationship.
I'm glad you did have support for your decision.  Thanks for sharing.

scarlet


_____________________________

"The words 'I am...' are potent words; be careful what you hitch them to. The thing you're claiming has a way of reaching back and claiming you." - A.L. Kitselman.


see my profile masterkspet

(in reply to needlesplease)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Thankyou SimplyMicheal - 9/29/2008 8:56:04 AM   
jezzabelle


Posts: 391
Joined: 2/5/2005
From: Southeastern, MA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pixidustpet

its not that much better if you *are* bisexual.  then you get "then why dont you wanna do me and my g/f?"  um, cause i am not attracted to just anything that breathes? 

or as the great saying goes, "i'm poly and bi.  that still doesnt mean i'm going to sleep with you!"

kitten


I know exactly what you mean pixie and I love that quote.  May I snag it?

To the OP, thank goodness SM was there.  I am poly and bi and I think I would have been just as floored if some woman came up to me and wanted to cane me without my consent (and wouldn't take no for an answer either). 

(in reply to pixidustpet)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Thankyou SimplyMicheal - 9/29/2008 9:13:56 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		So many people assume that we kinksters are all poly... or poly convertible.. or sexually easy.. or bi-sexual, that I often feel like a dinosaur.  Most of the tops I know are females, which seriously limits my play, as I do not allow women to touch me.  You are fortunate you had someone there who has enough sense to put a halt to someone to enjoy a walk by right onto your back.
Maybe it is a folsom thing.  Perhaps when so many people are gathered for a sensual event they believe we are willing to participate in anything.
I haven't been to folsom in 9 yrs, but even then I raised my eyebrow more than a few times because women were hitting on me or asking my partner if they could use me, ect.
When rude behavior is widely accepted it is good to have someone gaurd your back.  Good for Michael.
Kyst

(in reply to needlesplease)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Thankyou SimplyMicheal - 9/29/2008 10:08:27 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		I want to correct one misunderstanding, while what the female dom said was extremely rude, she didn't exactly walk into the scene uninvited, she misunderstood something I said.  My topping skills are not as advanced as my skills as a dominant and the woman in question is amazing with a cane, teaches nationally and was probably my first contact in the scene.  I JOKINGLY said, "I am going to need lessons," never ever thinking she would think I meant that exact moment nor was I granting permission to use the OP as target practice.  So, while I never intended to extend an invitation, I can understand the confusion.

However, her actions DO speak loudly to the heavy emphasis on poly and the widely held assumption that we all "share" our partners.  And frankly, to then denigrate someone for clearly AND politely stating their preference was highly rude and I did call her on that. 

That said, if we can, lets keep the discussion on point which is the issue itself rather than the mistakes of the individuals involved. 

(in reply to needlesplease)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Thankyou SimplyMicheal - 9/29/2008 10:20:55 AM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jezzabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixidustpet

or as the great saying goes, "i'm poly and bi.  that still doesnt mean i'm going to sleep with you!"

I know exactly what you mean pixie and I love that quote.  May I snag it?

Better yet, get the t-shirt.

~stef

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RE: Thankyou SimplyMicheal - 9/29/2008 10:25:34 AM   
jezzabelle


Posts: 391
Joined: 2/5/2005
From: Southeastern, MA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef


quote:

ORIGINAL: jezzabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixidustpet

or as the great saying goes, "i'm poly and bi.  that still doesnt mean i'm going to sleep with you!"

I know exactly what you mean pixie and I love that quote.  May I snag it?

Better yet, get the t-shirt.

~stef


That's awesome stef!!  Thank you so much for the link.

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Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Thankyou SimplyMicheal - 9/29/2008 12:25:04 PM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		I have to put my two cents in here. I'm definately poly, the three of us have a wonderful relationship. And by NO means do I believe everyone in any particular group is more likely to be poly then any other, lifestyle or otherwise. And we... a poly group... do NOT share our partners either. Maybe I'm just having a bad day here, but just because we are poly doesn't mean we have an open relationship. It is something that is widely assumed.
 
Jewel

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Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Thankyou SimplyMicheal - 9/29/2008 12:42:11 PM   
needlesplease


Posts: 21
Joined: 8/24/2008
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Thankyou to everyone that has put/will put their two cents in here...I appreciate every opinion and point of view... it is through information that I learn everything.

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Thankyou SimplyMicheal - 9/29/2008 1:49:29 PM   
MAMandSlave


Posts: 110
Joined: 8/15/2008
Status: offline 		I guess the one thing that sticks out to me is that even if there was a comment that one particpant wanted some further training from the domme involved, a scene set up with one dom does not imply consent for another to play with that sub. negotiations need to go on with all of the players, and the middle of a scene is not the time for that to go on. My girl and I have an arrangment. I am often asked if another can borrow her, but loan her, only after talking with her regarding her interest in playing, and mostly as an opportunity for her to experience things that I am not proficient at, such as single tail, and suspension. I have been really pleased with the way that the dom's who have played with her have taken care of her and respected the limits that I have set for her. The needle Scene was amazing.......

(in reply to needlesplease)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Thankyou SimplyMicheal - 9/29/2008 2:23:55 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pixidustpet

its not that much better if you *are* bisexual.  then you get "then why dont you wanna do me and my g/f?"  um, cause i am not attracted to just anything that breathes? 

or as the great saying goes, "i'm poly and bi.  that still doesnt mean i'm going to sleep with you!"

kitten


This has been mine and my Darling's experience as well. My darling and I have been together for over a decade, but we're not sexual. I'm bi. She's straight. We have an intricate, complex relationship, and we're committed to one another, but we don't have sex. She occasionally wants to have a servant she feels close enough to that she'll want to sleep with him. I am essentially a sexual agnostic at the moment (too many years in monastic exploration, I think--a bad thing for a woman when she gets so much control over her sexuality that she just doesn't -need- it any more, right guys?). It got so bad, for a while, with boys we were interviewing talking about it being 'great to get the chance to see two domme ladies screw without including me' that she felt compelled to actually squash that fantasy in her profile, because she was spending so much time getting annoyed that she'd lost interest in 'vetting' any more boys.

Some people just don't understand that gender preference has nothing to do with monogamy or polyamory... just as many bi and homosexual individuals want a single, monogamous partner as het individuals... they're just looking at a idifferent gender pool to choose their 'one' from. And being polyamorous doesn't mean that someone will sleep with anything that breathes. Polyamory is about -committed relationships-, and whether straight or bi, a poly person isn't looking for an orgy or f*ckfest. Cripes, in 10 years, my darling has had 3 lovers... two of them she was married to, and the other was a long-term, committed relationship (they'd dated for almost 6 months) until we figured out that he didn't understand that if she slept with him, that didn't mean she was ditching me (at which point, she helped him find his shoes and escorted him out the door, within minutes of him telling her he was going to pay for a separate apartment for me so he and she could be 'alone' together).

The only way to handle rude people is to send them on their merry way as directly and quickly as possible -- and to be willing to call in whatever muscle it takes to get them out the door if they won't go willingly.

I also wanted to mention, quickly, that some people don't see BDSM play as sexual -- For example, I will play with either gender, and I don't do sex... just blood. It isn't erotic to me... It's a "power" thing... "blood is life" and all of that.

Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 9/29/2008 3:00:49 PM >

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Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Thankyou SimplyMicheal - 9/29/2008 2:36:26 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		I have been very lucky with this issue. I am straight, while most of Sirs play pets are bisexual, and several of them have expressed an interest in playing with me. Sir tells them i am straight and no-one has ever pushed the issue.

Surely the issue is common politeness. Its fine and flattering to express an interest, but unless the asking individual is into rape and assault, no really does mean no. It never hurts to ask, but if the askee doesn't respond the way you want, then at that point you back away. 'Tis better to err on the side of caution.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 20
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