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greeneyes600 -> submission (9/20/2008 11:50:41 AM)
It's no great shakes defending my right to be who I am, even though I am submissive by nature. I am tough and protect this lifestyle too as much as I can, from those who make a mockery of it or who believe their way is the only right way. Sure, I am sub, sure, I am strong willed, but does that really mean the both cannot be inside one person? Being tough in the outside world increases my need behind closed doors to be me, to be who I really am, but that doesn't mean I change. I don't change, except to offer the whole of me into the control of another. One who is stronger than I mentally, not for a battle of wills, but to turn my knees to jelly. However, one major point is that, although subs who are meek and quiet and do everything they are told without question, have every right to be so, it doesn't mean that those who are not so meek are trying to top from the bottom, it simply means they need to find the dom one step up from them to put them in their place. We all have differing levels.....to go with the differing personalities, but I bet you that if you speak to me again when I have found my dom/master, you'd be hard pushed to recognise it's me, because I will at last be able to let go and live up to what I know I have been all my life. It's very hard not allowing yourself to be betrayed, made a fool of, hurt, lied to, etc., yet also allow yourself to trust and let your guard down enough for just a glimpse of the real you to come through, but unless that guard is kept up each time just a little more of the real you is chipped away. You must surely have moments where you question whether you have 'got it right'? We all do, but this is the only way I can be, me

lovingpet -> RE: submission (9/20/2008 12:17:11 PM)
This is a matter of public face and private face as far as I am concerned. There are some things others just do not have to right to know about me or experience for themselves. This does not mean I am not being my "true" self when I am opinionated, passionate, and taking the lead. It means that I am putting forth that particular aspect of myself that is needed and appropriate at that time. I do not consider the person who is able to bring forth my submission to be somehow literally above me in some way. It is that we are able and desire to express said natures with each other. The chemistry and understanding of each other exists. There are some things that are for the whole world to see. There are others that are for a more selective crowd. There are other things, however, few if any will ever know about me. That is honoring what I hold most dear within myself, not pushing it aside or disowning it. I will only bring out the depths of myself with those who cherish that part of me and themselves as much as I do. lovingpet

greeneyes600 -> RE: submission (9/20/2008 12:32:54 PM)
Yes i agree. It is sad though that sometimes doms seem to be shaken by the sub having a strong personality. I can't count the number of times a dom has said to me 'you aren't a real sub' just because i have an opinion.

lovingpet -> RE: submission (9/20/2008 12:36:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: greeneyes600 Yes i agree. It is sad though that sometimes doms seem to be shaken by the sub having a strong personality. I can't count the number of times a dom has said to me 'you aren't a real sub' just because i have an opinion. Then they are not the right person for you. Simple as that. The right person will enjoy even the "difficult" things about you. And the whole idea of "real" gets on my nerves. Just because the way I practice doesn't fit someone else's concept does not mean I am not real. It means we are not compatible. lovingpet

OttersSwim -> RE: submission (9/20/2008 12:38:55 PM)
Acting any part in the world today requires a person to develop some backbone and assertiveness. Even if we are submissive by nature, we will of needs do this even if we are not good at it, just to survive. Those skills that we learn can be easy or hard to shake off and get into a submissive state. I think it depends on the person and their life circumstances and personality. I find that at first I needed a little effort to "drop in" as it were and my Lady accommodated me by asserting her dominance with a bite on the neck. Worked like a charm and all the assertiveness just fell away. :) As we move on in our relationship, I am finding that just her presence is doing it to me now...though, I still like it when she bites my neck. :P

greeneyes600 -> RE: submission (9/20/2008 12:43:59 PM)
It's because of the job i have at work...i have to be assertive...and sometimes it's hard to be submissive, especially when i'm chatting with someone who isn't that assertive. So yes lovingpet, i agree they cannot be right for me which is why i am still seeking my master. Sometimes the comments hurt though...and sometimes it makes me question myself.

CalifChick -> RE: submission (9/20/2008 12:44:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: greeneyes600 Yes i agree. It is sad though that sometimes doms seem to be shaken by the sub having a strong personality. I can't count the number of times a dom has said to me 'you aren't a real sub' just because i have an opinion. I must be talking to the wrong people; no one has ever said that to me, and I have LOTS of opinions! Cali

SirJohnMandevill -> RE: submission (9/20/2008 12:48:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: greeneyes600 Sure, I am sub, sure, I am strong willed, but does that really mean the both cannot be inside one person? I'm pretty sure this is a rhetorical question, given the rest of your post. You know you can be both! Myself, I prefer strong-willed submissives, as indeed my submissive lady is. It really depends on what a particular Dominant wants. I suspect if he/she is looking for a doormat or an obsequious submissive, they need not knock on your door. [:)] Les (Purveyor of Fine, Handcrafted Kink)

bluefireroses -> RE: submission (9/20/2008 1:21:19 PM)
I have worked in a variety of settings which have made me be assertive, my favorite of which is management. I like order, and I like to see things run smoothly. However, in order to get your employees to listen you have to be assertive and friendly at the same time. Once you have been burned, it is generally hard to let your gaurd down again. However, I find when I am with the right people it is easy to let my submissiveness come out. It doesn't mean that I'm not submissive. If someone feels they have to attack you for not being submissive, then they are most likely not feeling very adequate themselves. Yes the comments tend to hurt, but try brushing them off if you can.

masterforRT -> RE: submission (9/20/2008 1:41:16 PM)
I believe in the concept of streaks. See, just because you are (or believe you are) a submissive doesn't mean that you want or need to submit 24/7. Indeed, you might have a Domme streak a mile wide, and want to not submit or even Domme once in a while. This also explains away switches, which I believe do not exist-at least not within the realm of normal, non-skizophrenic behavior.

greeneyes600 -> RE: submission (9/20/2008 1:47:10 PM)
Yes, the question was asked tongue in cheek ....perhaps i should have said 'flippin heck' before it [:D]

greeneyes600 -> RE: submission (9/20/2008 1:49:26 PM)
bluefireroses i find many so called doms anyway are only acting a 'role' and arent truly dom...and in this respect it's hard fro them to take a sub with a bit of fire i guess as they immediately go into their 'normal' roles.

RealSub58 -> RE: submission (9/20/2008 2:03:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: greeneyes600 Yes i agree. It is sad though that sometimes doms seem to be shaken by the sub having a strong personality. I can't count the number of times a dom has said to me 'you aren't a real sub' just because i have an opinion. The nuances of written language are very different when spoken to a face vs screen. Personally I do have trouble with a submissive who says fuck off to just about anyone, is opinionated in such a way that she comes across as superior, prejudiced or judgmental (you know, my shit dont stink, yours does) and picture of submissives holding the middle finger up (I just browsing pics). We forget that we can be on line as we would be in person. Genuineness comes across in many ways. The proifles with submissives threatening something blah blah, just says tome there is alot of insecurity. Come on, would they say those things to people they just met out in public? Opinionated can be humbly opinionated or superiorly opinionated. Some men like smart costic sarcastic women. I have trouble dreaming being like that in my sleep. I find some fem subs just bitchy and obnoxious, only cause I could never be such. And dont want to be. Yes , a woman with a strong personality needs a strong controlling D type and thus intimidatd doms might says "you are not submissive." That is their boundary...doesnt mean he is right or you are wrong for being waht Icall a bitch. Politeness and respect to a stranger is as important online as it is in meeting a stranger on the street. That's JMHO.

greeneyes600 -> RE: submission (9/20/2008 2:11:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RealSub58 Yes , a woman with a strong personality needs a strong controlling D type and thus intimidatd doms might says "you are not submissive." That is their boundary...doesnt mean he is right or you are wrong for being waht Icall a bitch. Politeness and respect to a stranger is as important online as it is in meeting a stranger on the street. That's JMHO. I am not a bitch. I am not obnoxious...i am not superior...and don't come across as being rude when i chat, so there is no reason for their response other than their insecurities i guess as you say.

Quivver -> RE: submission (9/20/2008 4:06:57 PM)
Being transparent always leaves you open to betrayal, feeling like a fool, while deep belief is the rose colored glasses that protect us from those lies. Problem is when the gut starts whispering betrayal, telling us were fools and illuminating lies. Discerning if were building mountains out of mole hills is the tough part of an internal battle of at least the submissive in me. That deep desire to believe no matter what is called faith. Sometimes faith gets flawed, sometimes it is taken advantage of, sometimes it's all we can do. It's tough to just breath and let evolution happen, even when the path seems perfect there are shady spots along the way. Best thing you can do in my opinion is be true and honor yourself, live with the integrity you want out of another and give freely when your able.

naughtysubK -> RE: submission (9/20/2008 4:10:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: greeneyes600 Yes i agree. It is sad though that sometimes doms seem to be shaken by the sub having a strong personality. I can't count the number of times a dom has said to me 'you aren't a real sub' just because i have an opinion. that opinion usually comes from the sort who thinks that one who is submisive must be submissive to anyone who crosses her path and calls themselves a Dom. These guys usually expect us to fall to our cyber knees and take orders from them should they deign to type in our direction. The typical reaction when told to please take that somewhere else is that the sub isn't 'real'

lovingpet -> RE: submission (9/20/2008 4:12:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: masterforRT This also explains away switches, which I believe do not exist-at least not within the realm of normal, non-skizophrenic behavior. The desire at any time to take up the other power dynamic and enjoy doing so can be considered being a switch. I don't care what my label says, but the concept of switch most certainlly exists. Unfortunately, we have to pick a label from the narrowly construed pile made available to us. Hijack over lovingpet

peppermint -> RE: submission (9/20/2008 4:33:28 PM)
quote: although subs who are meek and quiet and do everything they are told without question, have every right to be so, it doesn't mean that those who are not so meek are trying to top from the bottom, it simply means they need to find the dom one step up from them to put them in their place. You probably won't understand how I felt as I read your words. So...since you are a tough cookie, you feel you need the domlier Dominant. Those who aren't as strong willed as you can settle for those Dominants who need not be so domly. Sounds rather like Darwin's therory....you, being the strongest submissive will attract those domly Doms, those Doms who are one step up from ordinary and that match your superiority. Why don't you just say it like it is? You are a bratty submissive and rather than submit gracefully, you prefer to be forced into showing your submission. There is absolutely nothing wrong with your kink. It also does not make it necessary for you to have the stepped up version of a Dominant. In a way you are topping from the bottom. You want and search for that Dominant who will force the submission out of you and in being that way you wish to force the Dominant into acting in a certain way. A Dominant who expects you to be submissive because that is your nature will not understand why you wish to fight your submission and him. That does not make him a step lower than you, it just makes him a Dominant who expects his submissive to submit to his will. As to opening yourself to hurt when you trust another who does not deserve it...well, that is life. Those things happen and it shows how strong we are when we can stand up straight, laugh at the a**holes we allowed in our lives, and go on and live a full, productive, and happy life despite them.

Lockit -> RE: submission (9/20/2008 4:38:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: masterforRT I believe in the concept of streaks. See, just because you are (or believe you are) a submissive doesn't mean that you want or need to submit 24/7. Indeed, you might have a Domme streak a mile wide, and want to not submit or even Domme once in a while. This also explains away switches, which I believe do not exist-at least not within the realm of normal, non-skizophrenic behavior. I'm glad you feel able to determine this as medical fact, but I find your take on things about as ignorant as ignorant statements come. I have tried to give you the benefit of doubt many times... but you just sealed the deal with this one. Swiches don't need to be explained away. I dare say they have about the same mental health balance as the public in general. I would be more worried about your attitudes.

persephonee -> RE: submission (9/20/2008 4:52:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: greeneyes600 Yes i agree. It is sad though that sometimes doms seem to be shaken by the sub having a strong personality. I can't count the number of times a dom has said to me 'you aren't a real sub' just because i have an opinion. or gawd forbid a sense of humor...a sense of dedication to someone outside the life (child)...a career that dominates some of your waking hours...or an intelligence that challenges his. i would enter gladly into a relationship whatever the dynamic with the man who i honestly felt was worthy of my deference in allll matters without fail and without hesitation. This includes one who is capable of making an honest mistake in judgement and then adjusting accordingly after facing the fact that a mistake had been made. Frankly, until this man is located and captured...im ok with my good friends who happen to love to beat the piddle outta me. Please dont let the chase getcha down. Isnt there a pot for every lid or whatever?

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