Fed' "helping" AIG ?! (Full Version)

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pahunkboy -> Fed' "helping" AIG ?! (9/16/2008 1:20:07 PM)

http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/16/industry-efforts-to-rescue-of-aig-said-to-falter/index.html?hp

75 bn loans.

what a crock.




KatyLied -> RE: Fed' "helping" AIG ?! (9/16/2008 1:29:09 PM)

Far more than other insurers, AIG has been a big player in a complex parallel market called credit default swaps (CDS), financial instruments in which Wall Street companies take out a form of market insurance against the risks of bond default.These products, often linked to the US real-estate market, are at the heart of the current banking crisis and have led to massive write-downs of assets around the world.AIG alone has written down 25 billion dollars amid spiking defaults on US mortgage payments in the United States.

They have one day to obtain 80 billion dollars.





Thadius -> RE: Fed' "helping" AIG ?! (9/16/2008 4:52:39 PM)

The fed is going to allow a bridge loan.




popeye1250 -> RE: Fed' "helping" AIG ?! (9/16/2008 5:11:21 PM)

They insure just about everything.
They insure financial products, offshore drilling rigs, major movies in production, big companies you name it!
They're intertwined into "everything" so the govt had to give them a bridge loan.




Thadius -> RE: Fed' "helping" AIG ?! (9/16/2008 5:13:47 PM)

I understand the rationale behind doing it, I just haven't made up my mind if I agree with it.

Only time will tell.  On a side note I loved the way the fed handled the interest rates today.  Somebody finally grew a pair.




pahunkboy -> RE: Fed' "helping" AIG ?! (9/16/2008 5:28:58 PM)

All right so - add to the mix massive insurance fraud.

They "insured"  junk bonds that were incorrectly rated AAA.

The industry screams de-regulation. [wall street]  and even writes the laws so lawmakers dont have to.

Why is it so bad to allow a company in a capitalistic society to fail?
That is after all what capitalism is all about.

If it were a worthwhile  company- money would roll in- cause as you know money is everything.

Industry after industry wants 'special treatment".  they buy, fund the congress....

oh and on banks.  banks nearby change names every 8 months. So with the shake up, that means the names will change. just like it is supposed to, merger, hostile takeovers..  that is the name of the game in capitalism.

So why is any such company so sacred that we must - absolutley MUST - for the public good...bail em out?   If it is that important then nationalize the company.

Or privatize the goverment.


Tisk tisk.

...I am so sick of the fake line..

"and it will never happen again".


AIG  should go and get a pay check loan from one of those fast loan places.  After all- that is what pay day loans are for.  They will pay abit more then 5% interest...but who is counting.  This is yet ANOTHER company that America and the world can not live with out.

For as we speak- nuclear reactors will come crashing down and we will all die a horrible death- unless we give them our money.





but rest assured......

It will never/..//...............................................never.....................happen   again.


gag me.








LookieNoNookie -> RE: Fed' "helping" AIG ?! (9/16/2008 5:51:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/16/industry-efforts-to-rescue-of-aig-said-to-falter/index.html?hp

75 bn loans.

what a crock.



PaHunk...I gotta tell you....I'm not into guys but....

You look very good in that little hot tub.




farglebargle -> RE: Fed' "helping" AIG ?! (9/16/2008 6:36:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Far more than other insurers, AIG has been a big player in a complex parallel market called credit default swaps (CDS), financial instruments in which Wall Street companies take out a form of market insurance against the risks of bond default.These products, often linked to the US real-estate market, are at the heart of the current banking crisis and have led to massive write-downs of assets around the world.AIG alone has written down 25 billion dollars amid spiking defaults on US mortgage payments in the United States.

They have one day to obtain 80 billion dollars.




You know, word is ELIOT SPITZER was getting all up in Hank Greenberg's ass again -- and that's why they took him down...

Hmmm.. Would NY regulators have shut this down earlier this year and saved us taxpayers 30 billion dollars of the 80?

Get ready for the unwind. Wonder what the assets from LEH will bring? Anyone in NYC want a Herman Mueller chair? Homeless will be lounging in them soon enough, I think.




pahunkboy -> RE: Fed' "helping" AIG ?! (9/16/2008 6:44:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/16/industry-efforts-to-rescue-of-aig-said-to-falter/index.html?hp

75 bn loans.

what a crock.



PaHunk...I gotta tell you....I'm not into guys but....

You look very good in that little hot tub.


Thanks.   The pic was taken when on vacation.  Im sorta tired of that pic tho.

I could use a hot tub about now. I been building the wall up in the sun room, one side of the OSB is put on.  So far so good.    
always stuff to do...before winter.    :-)




corysub -> RE: Fed' "helping" AIG ?! (9/16/2008 7:08:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

They insure just about everything.
They insure financial products, offshore drilling rigs, major movies in production, big companies you name it!
They're intertwined into "everything" so the govt had to give them a bridge loan.


The Fed did the right thing.  AIG is the largest insurance company in the U.S. and has operations across the globe.  Failing would have created major problems in the financial community with ripples right through Main Street.  Numerous firm would have probably failed as well because of their investments in AIG products.  The Fed is getting over an 11% return on it's investment, and AIG is given breathing room to make the necessary adjustment in its portfolio of holding not under the duress of a "fire sale".  And thank God Obama is not in charge..the man is an idiot and really naieve when it comes to understanding business.  Worse, maybe he doesn't care about business..only Big and Bigger Government!




DarkSteven -> RE: Fed' "helping" AIG ?! (9/16/2008 7:41:44 PM)

Maybe it's time to bust up some of these financial companies.  I'm getting sick and tired of hearing "But they're too BIG to fail!"

If they're too big to fail... they're too big.  Having failure NOT be an option violates the spirit of capitalism.




DedicatedDom40 -> RE: Fed' "helping" AIG ?! (9/16/2008 8:11:40 PM)

Right on.  When are we going to start forcing them to break up?

Too many businesses have that 'feature'. 




Evility -> RE: Fed' "helping" AIG ?! (9/16/2008 8:12:51 PM)

Breaking up big things because they are "too big" isn't always such a grand idea. Judge Greene tried that about 25 years ago and now we see AT&T slowly putting itself back together because it wasn't such a great idea after all.




TheUtopian -> RE: Fed' "helping" AIG ?! (9/16/2008 8:18:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Far more than other insurers, AIG has been a big player in a complex parallel market called credit default swaps (CDS), financial instruments in which Wall Street companies take out a form of market insurance against the risks of bond default.These products, often linked to the US real-estate market, are at the heart of the current banking crisis and have led to massive write-downs of assets around the world.AIG alone has written down 25 billion dollars amid spiking defaults on US mortgage payments in the United States.

They have one day to obtain 80 billion dollars.





Well.....that's just a very minute portion of the derivatives I mentioned in another thread that will eventually lead to a wholesale collapse of the system. And the Federal Reserve's capacity to create money out of thin air is not even large enough to stop the collapse.

The problem is, every time they loan or bail out one of these debt-laden, derivative-encapsulated entities with newly created money, the citizenry on the whole comes that much closer to experiencing a slow, agonizing death that's brought on by hyper-inflation.

Anyone wanting to gain a better understanding how these derivatives will eventually lead to a wholesale collapse - I challenge them to read this beautifully constructed primer......

http://www.zealllc.com/2001/monster.htm




- R



PS Katy - Good job on that little piece highlighting the derivatives aspect that's so corrupted these entities. You meant to do that, huh? [;)]





DedicatedDom40 -> RE: Fed' "helping" AIG ?! (9/16/2008 8:56:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evility

AT&T slowly putting itself back together because it wasn't such a great idea after all.


Wasnt great for who?  Stockholders who felt dividends were no longer 'enough', investment banks who weren't getting enough merger-related luv, or customers who disliked low phone bills because of competition? 

They didnt re-merge on account of crisis.  They did it because the regulatory spine was AWOL.

For the revenue that this industry cultivates from their near-monopoly that this country tolerates, we should have the fastest high speed infrasturcture of any country. We are far from that.




housesub4you -> RE: Fed' "helping" AIG ?! (9/17/2008 3:31:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub



And thank God Obama is not in charge..the man is an idiot and really naieve when it comes to understanding business.  Worse, maybe he doesn't care about business..only Big and Bigger Government!


Wow, you still found away to say it would be worse with Obama, never mind the fact that McCain was a HUGE supporter of de- regulating in the 90's, though to hear him speak today he sounds more like a Dem the someone in the GOP

Where are all those who said the GOV never bails out private companies because the "Free Market" will fix it?????  Yea, well the free market just stuck it to the taxpayers again, but hey it's only 80B.

It seems McCain is one of the few that helped start this problem, but not if you listen to him today From today's Washington Post: 

In 2002, McCain introduced a bill to deregulate the broadband Internet market, warning that "the potential for government interference with market forces is not limited to federal regulation."

Three years earlier, McCain had joined with other Republicans to push through landmark legislation sponsored by then-Sen. Phil Gramm (Tex.), who is now an economic adviser to his campaign. The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act aimed to make the country's financial institutions competitive by removing the Depression-era walls between banking, investment and insurance companies.

That bill allowed AIG to participate in the gold rush of a rapidly expanding global banking and investment market. But the legislation also helped pave the way for companies such as AIG and Lehman Brothers to become behemoths laden with bad loans and investments.

McCain now condemns the executives at those companies for pursuing the ambitions that the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act made possible, saying that "in an endless quest for easy money, they dreamed up investment schemes that they themselves don't even understand."

Earleir this year McCain Stated "I'm always for less regulation," he told the Wall Street Journal in March. He added: "I'd like to see a lot of the unnecessary government regulations eliminated."




pahunkboy -> RE: Fed' "helping" AIG ?! (9/17/2008 5:42:47 AM)

I do not understand.

The fed who is broke, bails out ABC who is broke.  This after the 2005 bankruptsy reform bill.


so fiat money to make good on fiat accounting.

since so much of the equation is fake- when does the wall of the house collapse?   What I mean is something I see and touch every day.   REAL LIFE... not digital life.




Irishknight -> RE: Fed' "helping" AIG ?! (9/17/2008 5:56:11 AM)

AT&T was broken up.  Microsoft was forced to split.  Do the same to these companies. 

I saved quite a bit over the years because AT&T was forced to split allowing smaller companies to compete in the market.  What comes of Microsoft's forced split still remains to be seen.  Maybe some other companieswill be able to bring us better products at competitive prices and will force the giant to do better than they did with Vista, which still seems to be a dirty word among so many pc users.




pahunkboy -> RE: Fed' "helping" AIG ?! (9/17/2008 6:01:03 AM)

irish- I think those judges are gone.

Consider this.   Just 2 years ago...we were suppose to go ga ga over putting social security into the stock market. 

oops.

Meanwhile- you get a dumb population like me, who knows more about Brittany Spears, then AIG.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.




corysub -> RE: Fed' "helping" AIG ?! (9/17/2008 6:13:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub



And thank God Obama is not in charge..the man is an idiot and really naieve when it comes to understanding business.  Worse, maybe he doesn't care about business..only Big and Bigger Government!


Wow, you still found away to say it would be worse with Obama, never mind the fact that McCain was a HUGE supporter of de- regulating in the 90's, though to hear him speak today he sounds more like a Dem the someone in the GOP

Where are all those who said the GOV never bails out private companies because the "Free Market" will fix it?????  Yea, well the free market just stuck it to the taxpayers again, but hey it's only 80B.

It seems McCain is one of the few that helped start this problem, but not if you listen to him today From today's Washington Post: 

In 2002, McCain introduced a bill to deregulate the broadband Internet market, warning that "the potential for government interference with market forces is not limited to federal regulation."

Three years earlier, McCain had joined with other Republicans to push through landmark legislation sponsored by then-Sen. Phil Gramm (Tex.), who is now an economic adviser to his campaign. The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act aimed to make the country's financial institutions competitive by removing the Depression-era walls between banking, investment and insurance companies.

That bill allowed AIG to participate in the gold rush of a rapidly expanding global banking and investment market. But the legislation also helped pave the way for companies such as AIG and Lehman Brothers to become behemoths laden with bad loans and investments.

McCain now condemns the executives at those companies for pursuing the ambitions that the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act made possible, saying that "in an endless quest for easy money, they dreamed up investment schemes that they themselves don't even understand."

Earleir this year McCain Stated "I'm always for less regulation," he told the Wall Street Journal in March. He added: "I'd like to see a lot of the unnecessary government regulations eliminated."


Excuse me but lets get down to the nitty gritty.  John McCain called for tougher regulations on the floor of the Senate in 2005 with a very prescient speech warning about the abuses at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, regualations that had been pretty much eliminated by an inexperienced head of housing in the Clinton Administration with the last name Cuomo. 

It was Cuomo that opened the doors to FNM and FRE to give no money down, no income guarantee loans, totally changing the charter of these two institutions in the interest of giving mortgages to people who could not afford homes, had no defniable income, and were just accidents waiting to happen. And who was the largest recpient of lobby money from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac....Barack Obama!  More than nteresting, I would say.

There is plenty of blame to go around on BOTH sides of the aisle, the republicans being no better and not reversing the elimination of lending restrictions when they were in power.  Is it any wonder that the popularity of Congress is half that of George Bush!




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