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Is it worth it? - 9/3/2008 8:17:34 AM   
PetWanted87


Posts: 3
Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline 		I already touched on the issue in my introduction post but I could really use some guidance here.

Me and my fiance have been together over 3 years now. We're just a normal couple, living together right now. Ever since I hit puberty I've been into the whole Master/Slave thing but only in the last year have I really found myself and been able to be assertive enough to get involved, even if the relationships were online only. The best experience I had was recently a girl online became my pet. It was great doing more than just dominant cybersex, but to actually spend time with her doing normal things like having her clean her room and stroking her as a reward.

Problem is, my fiance has no interest whatsoever. She finds the whole thing pretty warped and thinks I "have a real problem" if that's what I'm into. The relationship is strained at best right now. There's been a few problems in the bedroom which are now starting to affect the relationship as a whole.

My main issue is that she is the "typical man". That is, we get to bed, I do all the work, she gets off, rolls over and goes to sleep without even touching me back. She refuses to give a blowjob, can't stand cum on her (not even pre-cum), gets bored quickly when giving a hand job and about the best I can get is she lets me tit-fuck her. Even then she lies back and looks pretty uninterested and when I do climax I have to make sure none gets on her.

None of this is really helped that I'm starting to really think she's lesbian. She's recently admitted to having liked girls all her life, myself having been one of only a few men she's ever found attractive. I'm okay and supportive of her exploring her sexuality but she's offered nothing back in terms of letting me explore my polyamory or even my kinky side unless she's horny too and then it's only for her pleasure.

But it's more than just the sex. She's as thick as a plank of wood sometimes. We share no hobbies or interests (she insists I have a "gaming addiction"). She's incredibly messy and thinks that as she does the cooking the rest of the house (laundry, hoovering, cleaning etc.) are all my problem. She won't let anything go; if I make a mistake or get angry she'll hold it against me for months.

I'm pretty sure I should just break up with her. But I really care for her and we share the same friends. I couldn't afford the house I'm in on my own. There's also a fairly significant threat that she'd kill herself if we broke up. I promised myself after my last relationship I wouldn't be threatened by that but still, it's something I've got to consider.

So there you go. If there's anything I've missed just ask and I'll answer. I'm avoiding names and locations for obvious reasons.

I'd love some help and advice right now from like minded people. Is the BDSM lifestyle worth it? Has anyone gone through something similar? Any help will be incredibly appreciated.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Is it worth it? - 9/3/2008 8:22:07 AM   
faerytattoodgirl


Posts: 5824
Status: offline 		have her spend a few days and read these boards.  it may enlighten her as to what this "thing" as you say... is..... although saying "thing" isnt a good idea...bdsm is a way of life.

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Imperfect.
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Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Is it worth it? - 9/3/2008 8:25:40 AM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		I think that your first step here is to evaluate the relationship you are in.  It sounds as though the two of you may not be compatible in more than a few areas.  Are you willing to stay in the relationship and make the sacrifices that it appears you will have to make to work it out?  Are you going to be fulfilled in other ways that are equally important to you?
 
Before adding complications, simplify and be clear where you are, regardless of where that is.

_____________________________

Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


(in reply to PetWanted87)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Is it worth it? - 9/3/2008 8:29:31 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		The whole scenario says to me 'incompatable'.  I would personally end the relationship unless you do not want to, but I am not getting that via your post.
 
Being under threat, real or imagined isn't healthy for the relationship anyway.  If the rent is hard, get a lodger.  If she kills herself, then that would not be your fault.  But this feels like the relationship is doomed to fail or there will eventually be cheating involved if neither of you are getting want you need to feel fulfilled.
 
the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Is it worth it? - 9/3/2008 8:35:56 AM   
ladysekhmetka


Posts: 94
Joined: 12/31/2006
Status: offline 		Sounds like you guys are having a conflict of personality.  I would have broken it off already, personally.

What game do you play 'so much' that you have a supposed gaming addiction?


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Lady Sekhmet Ka

~ Hail, Sekhmet, Who Gives Joy, Lady of Jubilation!~

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Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Is it worth it? - 9/3/2008 8:39:42 AM   
mzbehavin


Posts: 253
Joined: 1/15/2008
Status: offline 		Do you really need us to tell you what to do? Would you seriously even consider marrying this girl? I mean really, come on. Rent should be the least of your concerns, get a studio or downsize or something. We're talking about your life here. You sound miserable, i know i would be.
If theres no give and take it wont work, D/s aside.
Also, if you want help cleaning maybe you could alternate cooking/ cleaning weeks?
Just because shes uninterested in sex doesnt make her a lesbian. Lol.
It sounds as if she's just uninterested. No spark. Where theres no spark, theres no fire, where theres no fire, love dies.
If you want to be a Dominant you need to learn how to control your own life and create what you want.
Best of luck. xox

_____________________________

There's never really a good time for the whole Man to Beast thing...Just kind of~Whaum! and hope for the best...
ToTo from The O.Z.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Is it worth it? - 9/3/2008 8:43:01 AM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		She sounds incredibly selfish and unbalanced - at least how you are portraying her.  Try fast forwarding 5, 10, 15 years and then imagine all those traits magnified 10 fold and set in stone. Can you live with that? If not run, and run fast!

i don't mean this as an insult but in the relationship you sound as if you are submissive to her in a way, she seems to get what she wants and your left out in the cold. 

She's boring, messy, holds grudges, does housework she feels like doing, perhaps a lesbian (you're not sure), insults you and your desires but you want to stay because you can't afford for her to leave, you share the same friends and she may kill herself????  Don't you see a warped picture here?  You haven't said a positive thing about her in fact you stated you probably should break up with her.  Even if you were madly in love with her i would say consider very carefully if you wanted to take on a person like this for the rest of your life.  Hope you like being unsatisfied, left wishing for more while someone plays you like a marionette cause i see that in my crystal ball for your future.  Run, fast!

< Message edited by velvetears -- 9/3/2008 8:44:57 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Is it worth it? - 9/3/2008 8:45:17 AM   
FlamingRedhead


Posts: 451
Joined: 3/4/2007
From: Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PetWanted87
Me and my fiance have been together over 3 years now. We're just a normal couple, living together right now. Ever since I hit puberty I've been into the whole Master/Slave thing but only in the last year have I really found myself and been able to be assertive enough to get involved, even if the relationships were online only.


I fail to see how sneaking online is being assertive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PetWanted87
Problem is, my fiance has no interest whatsoever. She finds the whole thing pretty warped and thinks I "have a real problem" if that's what I'm into. The relationship is strained at best right now. There's been a few problems in the bedroom which are now starting to affect the relationship as a whole.

My main issue is that she is the "typical man". That is, we get to bed, I do all the work, she gets off, rolls over and goes to sleep without even touching me back. She refuses to give a blowjob, can't stand cum on her (not even pre-cum), gets bored quickly when giving a hand job and about the best I can get is she lets me tit-fuck her. Even then she lies back and looks pretty uninterested and when I do climax I have to make sure none gets on her.

None of this is really helped that I'm starting to really think she's lesbian. She's recently admitted to having liked girls all her life, myself having been one of only a few men she's ever found attractive. I'm okay and supportive of her exploring her sexuality but she's offered nothing back in terms of letting me explore my polyamory or even my kinky side unless she's horny too and then it's only for her pleasure.

But it's more than just the sex. She's as thick as a plank of wood sometimes. We share no hobbies or interests (she insists I have a "gaming addiction"). She's incredibly messy and thinks that as she does the cooking the rest of the house (laundry, hoovering, cleaning etc.) are all my problem. She won't let anything go; if I make a mistake or get angry she'll hold it against me for months.


Basically, your fiance walks all over you, and you allow it.  Again, this behavior does not jive with your profile which claims that you are a "Master" through and through.  Master of what?!?  Certainly not your own household.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PetWanted 87
I'm pretty sure I should just break up with her. But I really care for her and we share the same friends. I couldn't afford the house I'm in on my own. There's also a fairly significant threat that she'd kill herself if we broke up. I promised myself after my last relationship I wouldn't be threatened by that but still, it's something I've got to consider.


You're willing to stay with someone for convenience and/or out of fear.  Again, this isn't indicative of a dominant personality at all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PetWanted87
I'd love some help and advice right now from like minded people. Is the BDSM lifestyle worth it? Has anyone gone through something similar? Any help will be incredibly appreciated.


It depends.  If you're a lazy vanilla guy who thinks a Master/slave relationship is easy, you're in for a rude awakening.  It takes a lot of work on your part.  You will be responsible for managing the finances, making all major decisions, trying to control yourself as well as another human being, etc.  This isn't an easy way to get what you want.  If you lack the assertiveness to address problems with your fiance's behavior, I seriously doubt you have the communication skills necessary to be a successful "Master."

_____________________________

I'm so addicted to
All the things you do
When you're going down on me
In between the sheets
Or the sound you make
With every breath you take
It's unlike anything
When you're loving me

(in reply to PetWanted87)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Is it worth it? - 9/3/2008 8:49:16 AM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FlamingRedhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: PetWanted87
Me and my fiance have been together over 3 years now. We're just a normal couple, living together right now. Ever since I hit puberty I've been into the whole Master/Slave thing but only in the last year have I really found myself and been able to be assertive enough to get involved, even if the relationships were online only.


I fail to see how sneaking online is being assertive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PetWanted87
Problem is, my fiance has no interest whatsoever. She finds the whole thing pretty warped and thinks I "have a real problem" if that's what I'm into. The relationship is strained at best right now. There's been a few problems in the bedroom which are now starting to affect the relationship as a whole.

My main issue is that she is the "typical man". That is, we get to bed, I do all the work, she gets off, rolls over and goes to sleep without even touching me back. She refuses to give a blowjob, can't stand cum on her (not even pre-cum), gets bored quickly when giving a hand job and about the best I can get is she lets me tit-fuck her. Even then she lies back and looks pretty uninterested and when I do climax I have to make sure none gets on her.

None of this is really helped that I'm starting to really think she's lesbian. She's recently admitted to having liked girls all her life, myself having been one of only a few men she's ever found attractive. I'm okay and supportive of her exploring her sexuality but she's offered nothing back in terms of letting me explore my polyamory or even my kinky side unless she's horny too and then it's only for her pleasure.

But it's more than just the sex. She's as thick as a plank of wood sometimes. We share no hobbies or interests (she insists I have a "gaming addiction"). She's incredibly messy and thinks that as she does the cooking the rest of the house (laundry, hoovering, cleaning etc.) are all my problem. She won't let anything go; if I make a mistake or get angry she'll hold it against me for months.


Basically, your fiance walks all over you, and you allow it.  Again, this behavior does not jive with your profile which claims that you are a "Master" through and through.  Master of what?!?  Certainly not your own household.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PetWanted 87
I'm pretty sure I should just break up with her. But I really care for her and we share the same friends. I couldn't afford the house I'm in on my own. There's also a fairly significant threat that she'd kill herself if we broke up. I promised myself after my last relationship I wouldn't be threatened by that but still, it's something I've got to consider.


You're willing to stay with someone for convenience and/or out of fear.  Again, this isn't indicative of a dominant personality at all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PetWanted87
I'd love some help and advice right now from like minded people. Is the BDSM lifestyle worth it? Has anyone gone through something similar? Any help will be incredibly appreciated.


It depends.  If you're a lazy vanilla guy who thinks a Master/slave relationship is easy, you're in for a rude awakening.  It takes a lot of work on your part.  You will be responsible for managing the finances, making all major decisions, trying to control yourself as well as another human being, etc.  This isn't an easy way to get what you want.  If you lack the assertiveness to address problems with your fiance's behavior, I seriously doubt you have the communication skills necessary to be a successful "Master."


agreed, on all counts. wow.

(in reply to FlamingRedhead)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Is it worth it? - 9/3/2008 8:54:19 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

You're willing to stay with someone for convenience and/or out of fear.  Again, this isn't indicative of a dominant personality at all.

That's a generalisation and not necessarily indictive of ones dominance.

quote:

It takes a lot of work on your part.  You will be responsible for managing the finances, making all major decisions, trying to control yourself as well as another human being, etc.  This isn't an easy way to get what you want.  If you lack the assertiveness to address problems with your fiance's behavior, I seriously doubt you have the communication skills necessary to be a successful "Master."


So it's only dominance if it means it's hard work?  No.  He will 'manage the finances' if he decides it - are you trying to dominate the way he should be dominant?  He may not be into control.  You are making an awful amount of assumptions based on little information and being pretty big on generalisations also.  One size doesn't fit all, and what you may define as dominance, doesn't make it so for everyone.
 
the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to FlamingRedhead)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Is it worth it? - 9/3/2008 8:55:12 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		Dear PetWanted

Libido is a funny thing. It's a powerful motivation. And libidinous needs are, in my opinion, as powerful as the need to breathe, the need to eat/sleep/drink.
In reading your post one way or another you are getting your needs satisfied. the need to be with a pet, the need to be in a 'belonging' intimate relationship...even though you are clearly sexually incompatable with your partner.
You give the impression of being a very caring person. I know it's even more difficult to strike out in what might feel a selfish direction if indeed you are that caring. You can't sort out her sexuality. We can, each of us, take on board advice, listen to what others are saying, allow ourselves to be supported by them, but we cannot 'do it' for anyone else.
I don't know how old your partner is. Sometimes it takes years to come to the realisation that one is a lesbian. Sometimes we are just born with that realisation. I'm bisexual but it's a complex issue, always was and always will be.
As for the friends? They will stick around if they are real friends.
As for the financial situation? Look, i've walked away from everything and i mean everything, dragging three kids with me, when it got to the point of the relationships being a lie. Finances are easily sorted compared to the relationship stuff.
Keep posting here until you get the advice and support you need. don't be put off or feel it is insignificant.
Relationship problems can be swept under the carpet for only so long. Eventually the stuff you hide will trip you up if it's not sorted. Everything and anything is possible and it is truly feasible to get the lifestyle you need.
Edited to add; being a master is an enormous responsibility. I can absolutely assure you that my needs as a slave far outweigh my abilities to cook, clean, be house wife, service my Master's needs for sadism and sex. It's me who i often feel gets the best part of the deal....but He's there 24/7 and contains my mood swings, my creativity, organises my time, listens to my inner world, is steadfast at all times, absolutely in control of all scenes and never waivers in His love for me.  It's taken me a very long time to find a man whom i knew would be up to the job and one to whom i readily transfered all authority.
It's now no longer a question of having emotional/relationship problems. those in His words are 'My responsibility'. My side of the bargain is simply to do hat he wats, when he wants and whatever He wants.
But it's u;timately a service which is earned. I am not going to pull the agist card and say you are too young to have earned those stripes. all i am saying is that yes, the grass might be greener on the other side of the fence. But it needs mowing, weeding, and watering. A Master's life is absolutely not just about slaves bowing to their evrery need.



< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 9/3/2008 9:04:04 AM >

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Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
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To my stalker:
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Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Is it worth it? - 9/3/2008 9:02:21 AM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I'm sorry, but I don't think this has anything to do with BDSM but is simply a relationship issue.

Why are you even with this girl, let alone engaged to her? 

You don't appear to have much, if anything, in common.  It doesn't sound as if you enjoy each other sexually.  It doesn't even look like either of you has respect for the other... she ridicules your desires, and you ridicule her. 

And... unless she is aware of and tolerant of your having a profile here, seeking a live-in pet, and engaging in D/s relationships with other women, you don't even have any respect for your relationship.  I'd almost bet that if you share that with her, killing herself over you would be the last thing on her mind.

You say you care about her, but hey... I care about a lot of people but that doesn't mean I'd marry them.  So it boils down to you needing someone to share living expenses and you have the same friends.

Well... that's certainly a good reason to get married.

(in reply to PetWanted87)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Is it worth it? - 9/3/2008 9:12:33 AM   
apiercedkitty


Posts: 569
Joined: 2/22/2007
From: Michigan
Status: offline 		i'm in agreement with the masses here... why, exactly, have you stayed together for 3 years?? i don't however, agree with the evaluation that says, basically, that you can't be a Dom because of the situation you're in... i think they're 2 different things altogether. i do believe, however, that you do need to take a serious look at where you are and project out. Trust me, people almost never change their basic natures - especially for someone else and it sounds as if her basic nature isn't something you can live with. My advice would be to make up your mind sooner rather than later.
Also, about the killing herself thing - not your responsibility if it happens. i had someone whom i loved with all my heart kill Himself... my love wasn't enough to make Him want to live. Suicide is a very personal thing - it rarely has anything to do with anyone besides the person contemplating it.
It seems to me that you already know what you want to do. Do what you need to do as delicately as possible but do it just the same.
i wish you luck.

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normal is a setting on a washing machine...

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Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Is it worth it? - 9/3/2008 9:19:06 AM   
FlamingRedhead


Posts: 451
Joined: 3/4/2007
From: Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

He may not be into control.
 
the.dark.

 
*dies laughing*  Ummm....okaaay.....whatever!  *rme*  It sounds to me like he's being manipulated by a female rather than dominating her, and I don't know any submissive women who don't desire control...jus' sayin'.

_____________________________

I'm so addicted to
All the things you do
When you're going down on me
In between the sheets
Or the sound you make
With every breath you take
It's unlike anything
When you're loving me

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Is it worth it? - 9/3/2008 9:21:16 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Couples therapy.

However, I don't get the feeling you two are compatible. As far as the threatening suicide stuff goes, call the police if she does. Threats of harming oneself needs to be assessed by a professional. If she's using this as manipulation, then 72 hours in a mandated psych ward should cure her of that predeliction. If she's for real, then she needs the professional help.

Get a roommate to be able to stay in the house. Or walk out and let her deal with the rent issues while you room with someone else.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Is it worth it? - 9/3/2008 9:21:30 AM   
sistermargaret


Posts: 101
Joined: 8/8/2008
Status: offline 		She might kill herself???? None too subtle emotional blackmile before you are even married? You'd better get THIS problem taken care of before you even think about the D/s stuff. Run, don't walk. Anyone who threatens to kill themself just might succeed, and they might take you with them. Your life will be an endless voyage thru hell if you stay. Want to have children with this woman? Don't.  No child deserves to be the victim of an emotional blackmailer. i know ... been there. 

http://www.angelfire.com/vt/rcwn/Pagefifteen.html
Emotional Blackmail
This information was gathered by Lauren LaBate, a crisis volunteer and a student of a Victimology course. She also did a review of the book entitled Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward, Ph.D.
COMPONENTS OF EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL
(1) Demand--someone wants something
(2) Resistance--the other does not feel comfortable with the demand
(3) Pressure --used to make the resistant one give in
(4) Threat --to turn up the pressure
(5) Compliance--on the part of the resistant one
(6) Repetition--this pattern reoccurs in at least other situations (just with a different name)

TYPES OF BLACKMAILERS
(1) The Punisher--very direct about their demands, clearly state the consequences
(2) The Self-Punisher--uses threats of self harm to manipulate the resistant one through fear, obligation and guilt
(3) The Sufferer--the martyr who believes they’ve done everything for others and suffered because of it and don’t hesitate to remind them so they will feel sorry for them
(4) The Tantalizer--uses bribery, knowing they have something the other wants

EMOTIONS FELT BY VICTIMS OF EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL
They feel insecure, unimportant, unworthy and generally bad about themselves
They doubt their ideas and needs
They feel isolated
They may have consistent physical ailments as a result of the stress
They always feel as if they in a FOG unable to think clearly as a result of being manipulated to feel Fear, Obligation and Guilt

TOOLS USED TO CREATE FOG
Making demands seem reasonable
Making the victim feel selfish
Labeling with negative qualities and connotations
Pathologizing or crazy making
Making a demand that needs an immediate response
Allying themselves with someone of authority or influence i.e. parents, children, mental health professionals, religious leaders etc.
Comparing the victim to a person that the victim does not like or is in competition with
Learning the victim's "triggers"
Assess how much pressure to apply before the victim will give in





CHARACTERISTICS OF THE VICTIM
Constantly seeks approval
Does their best to avoid anger and keep peace
Takes the blame for anything that happens to others
Has compassion and empathy
Tends to feel pity or obligation
Believes they need to give in because it is the “right thing to do”
Has self-doubt with no sense of their worth, intelligence or abilities


CHARACTERISTICS OF AN EMOTIONAL BLACKMAILER
Has great fear of abandonment and deprivation or of being hurt
Feels desperate
Needs to be in control of things
Experiences frequent frustration
Has thought distortions regarding the reasonableness of their demands
Has had someone emotionally blackmail them and sees that it works to get them what they want


WHAT IS NECESSARY TO STOP EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL
The victim must begin to look at the situation in a new way.
They must detach from their emotions.
They must realize that they are being blackmailed and that it is not appropriate for the blackmailer to be treating them in that manner.
They must make a commitment to themselves that they will take care of themselves and no longer allow this abusive treatment.
They need to see that a demand is being made on them and that it makes them uncomfortable.
They must determine why the demand feels uncomfortable.
They must not give into the pressure for an immediate decision.
They must set boundaries to be able to take time to consider the situation and to look at all of the alternatives to make the decision.
Finally, they must consider their own needs first for a change, in this process.
An additional note here: We now have a message board for others to discuss their issues of abuse, in the link below.

(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Is it worth it? - 9/3/2008 9:40:14 AM   
MzDeadlyRed


Posts: 29
Joined: 7/17/2008
From: Lake St Louis, MO
Status: offline 		Sounds like codependency to me.

(in reply to sistermargaret)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Is it worth it? - 9/3/2008 9:44:24 AM   
aperversetwist


Posts: 48
Joined: 8/3/2008
Status: offline 		I would get out of the relationship.  It's not going to improve, she isn't going to suddenly realize she enjoys all the things she's hated up to now.  In addition the threat of suicide is a good enough reason in itself to leave.

(in reply to sistermargaret)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Is it worth it? - 9/3/2008 10:54:46 AM   
buttermilkdreams


Posts: 9
Joined: 8/30/2008
Status: offline 		I know I'm new to the bondage (I think I'd like some D/s but not sure I'd say BDSM in my case)  but I do know something about relationships so I'd like to offer some comments.  Let me see if I understand your position from what you described:

1.  She doesn't agree with your interests and demeans you for it
2.  She is not as touchy feely as you would like
3.  She gets bored sexually with you
4.  She doesn't want to take the time to work on pleasing you sexually (orally or manually)
5.  She tells you shes interested in girls and you are only the first man shes found attractive

Am I missing something here?   These are the definition of "warning shots across the bow".  I'm sure that if there are issues in this one focused area, there are other issues as well.  Why would even consider wanting to spend the rest of your life with someone who treats you like this?  What else does she have to do to let you know that you are not compatible, whup you upside the head with a 2X4?  (that last comment was from my husband). 

Run......... Keep running.......do not pass go............ do not collect anything at all
Find somebody who actually likes you.

(in reply to PetWanted87)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Is it worth it? - 9/3/2008 10:54:57 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Why would you wish to fuck a thick plank of wood... I would be afriad of splinters.

(in reply to aperversetwist)
Profile   Post #: 20
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