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Dominants "Sir-ing" socially - 8/28/2008 8:53:50 AM

Mavis

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I was going to reply to the "Don't call me Sir" thread, but I realised I was going to de-rail the discussion a bit, so brought this slant to a new thread.

My hubby/Dom did 20 years army enlisted, and to call him "Sir" bothers him.   Even so,  He and Master "Sir" each other, and it works somehow. I think it's respecting each others position within our dynamic.

BUT! It drives me crazy to hear Master call his 30 year old boss "Sir". He does it out of the southern tradition, but every time I hear it, I cringe. In my mind, he might as well kneel for the kid.   Seems He has debased himself for someone undeserving. Completly effs up my headspace.

When He uses it to other Dominants, it's appropriate in that setting, it's a peer-peer thing.. When He uses it in stores and restaurants, it's appropriate in that setting, but only because we're in the South now. Back home in Seattle, I'd have told him he was out of step with social norms.

So.. question is: How do you feel about your big-D person using Sir or Maam? I notice I have varied reactions to it, depending on the setting.

P.S.
Notice on any of those cops shows, guy has spent 4 hours dealing dope on the corner, but when arrested, he's SIR-ing like crazy as they put the cuffs on. Does this somehow imply he's just now discovered respect for the law?

Post #: 1

RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially - 8/28/2008 8:57:53 AM

LaTigresse

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Even though I am not in the south, when you get in some rural/small town areas, Mr. Mrs. Miss. Ma'am Sir...........all that stuff is still pretty common place. I guess I am so used to hearing it I don't think about it being anything other than courtesy and good manners.

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RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially - 8/28/2008 8:59:39 AM

Alumbrado

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It's all in the inflection.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

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RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially - 8/28/2008 9:02:36 AM

mistoferin

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I appreciate the fact that Sir was brought up to understand good manners. I don't understand the whole "Sir" issue at all. Just because he or I address someone as "Sir" does not mean that we are placing them in a position of authority or ownership over us. We are simply being polite.

Now what really gets under my skin are the submissives who are so hell bent on never addressing a dominant who doesn't own them as Sir that they address my or other dominants by their last name only. Actually, it outright pisses me off and seems to be becoming commonly acceptable. I would never presume to address anyone by just their last name unless they specifically requested I do so.

_____________________________

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~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

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Post #: 4

RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially - 8/28/2008 9:03:27 AM

Dnomyar

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Im a Sir, ma'am person. It is the way I was raised and the way I raised my kids. The age of my Boss has nothing to do with it. My boss is a Sir because he is my boss. Like LaTigresse said it is courtesy and good manners.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 5

RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially - 8/28/2008 9:09:01 AM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

I was going to reply to the "Don't call me Sir" thread, but I realised I was going to de-rail the discussion a bit, so brought this slant to a new thread.

My hubby/Dom did 20 years army enlisted, and to call him "Sir" bothers him.   Even so,  He and Master "Sir" each other, and it works somehow. I think it's respecting each others position within our dynamic.

BUT! It drives me crazy to hear Master call his 30 year old boss "Sir". He does it out of the southern tradition, but every time I hear it, I cringe. In my mind, he might as well kneel for the kid.   Seems He has debased himself for someone undeserving. Completly effs up my headspace.

When He uses it to other Dominants, it's appropriate in that setting, it's a peer-peer thing.. When He uses it in stores and restaurants, it's appropriate in that setting, but only because we're in the South now. Back home in Seattle, I'd have told him he was out of step with social norms.

So.. question is: How do you feel about your big-D person using Sir or Maam? I notice I have varied reactions to it, depending on the setting.

P.S.
Notice on any of those cops shows, guy has spent 4 hours dealing dope on the corner, but when arrested, he's SIR-ing like crazy as they put the cuffs on. Does this somehow imply he's just now discovered respect for the law?

I do the same thing. For me, it's just how I was raised. It is considered a 'social courtesy', and is extended out of courtesy for a person's efforts, rather than their station (for example, a waiter might get a 'Thank you, sir' for having provided prompt, courteous service.) or it is extended out of courtesy recognizing someone's role (boss, policeman, judge, professional person) regardless of age, race, etc.. Companion designations (Ma'am, Miss, Dr., etc.) are also used out of courtesy. I simply don't understand why people would cringe or find these appellations 'inappropriate', unless a given individual -asked- not to be referred to using the courtesy designation and someone still used it even after several reminders (which it may take for some of us old fogeys). For me, it is just plain 'good manners'.

Calla Firestorm

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Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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(in reply to Mavis)

Post #: 6

RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially - 8/28/2008 9:13:46 AM

IrishMist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Im a Sir, ma'am person. It is the way I was raised and the way I raised my kids. The age of my Boss has nothing to do with it. My boss is a Sir because he is my boss. Like LaTigresse said it is courtesy and good manners.

Yep. It's how I was raised and how my kids were raised and I am the first to admit that the day I hear my kids NOT using good manners in this way is the day I take them to task for it, no matter their age.

As for the other point; about calling others Sir and Ma'am in regards to them proclaiming dominance...it has nothing to do that with that. Good manners demand that I respond with courtesy; which means that Sir and Ma'am are coming out of my mouth whether someone else agrees with it or not.

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Post #: 7

RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially - 8/28/2008 9:22:52 AM

sublizzie

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I prefer a "big D" person use honorifics in polite ways. I prefer to spend time with polite Ds, which would explain why my D is polite. I chose someone who was polite to be my D.

When I was teaching Sunday School classes with 3 year olds I called the boys "Sir" and the girls "Miss". It's amazing how it changed their attitudes. In some ways using "Sir" and "Ma'am" or "Miss" is a very subtle reminder to use your manners. I will often call those younger than myself "Sir" or "Ma'am" to help them remember to act appropriately.

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(in reply to Mavis)

Post #: 8

RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially - 8/28/2008 9:23:44 AM

NuevaVida

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Sir is just a word. I call people Sir without any D/s spin or twist to it. Not always, but sometimes. It's the intent behind the word that's important. My cousin calls her little one Sir and it's cute - NOT a subjugation to him. I call the man I'm talking to now Sir but it's because of a level of respect I feel for him when talking to him. If he called a waiter Sir, I wouldn't think he was doing so in a submitting way, rather, he would just be being nice (and charming, as he seems to be).

(in reply to Mavis)

Post #: 9

RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially - 8/28/2008 9:53:23 AM

MizSexyVixen

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Joined: 6/6/2008
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In my mind, Sir and Ma'am are both polite forms of address in any context. I use them when referring to people who's name I do not know (i.e. when thanking the nice gentleman who opened the door for me) or to show respect (when replying to the older woman who thanked me after opening the door for her).

In BDSM terms, I agree with previous comments that context is everything. I routinely address other dominants as Sir or Ma'am. I do not do that as a sign of submission, but as an aknowledgement of mutual respect.

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Post #: 10

RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially - 8/28/2008 9:59:26 AM

Mavis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Now what really gets under my skin are the submissives who are so hell bent on never addressing a dominant who doesn't own them as Sir that they address my or other dominants by their last name only.

mistoferin... I'm with you there, I always "Sir" a Dominant who is *over* a friend of mine, even if i dislike him personally. I respect that they've assumed responsibility for the sub, and my friend loves or respects them, and I won't disrespect my friends choices by disrespecting the position of her partner.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

The age of my Boss has nothing to do with it. My boss is a Sir because he is my boss.

Dynomar.. Nods, That's His feeling as well. But I know he completly loathes the guy, so why feign respect? He sure wouldn't take that from ME. And I wouldn't expect him to.

(course, I know the workplace is a different animal. just sayin')

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 11

RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially - 8/28/2008 10:15:59 AM

Dnomyar

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Mavis it is not feigning respect. Why stoop to his level. Look at the bright side. The guy might hate being called sir. So you can think of it as a dig. I smile all of the time and that really bothers some people. It dose'nt bother me. The point is be positive and let the other drag themselves down with their negativity.

(in reply to Mavis)

Post #: 12

RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially - 8/28/2008 10:19:30 AM

mistoferin

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Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis
But I know he completly loathes the guy, so why feign respect?

It's not respect, it's courtesy and there is a big difference.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Mavis)

Post #: 13

RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially - 8/28/2008 10:20:17 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

Dynomar.. Nods, That's His feeling as well. But I know he completly loathes the guy, so why feign respect? He sure wouldn't take that from ME. And I wouldn't expect him to.

(course, I know the workplace is a different animal. just sayin')

To me, it isn't feigning respect, but it -is- acknowledging the person's position. Regardless of the person's age, the position obtains a measure of courtesy. Courtesy does -not- imply respect -- it is simply 'good manners' -- something that it seems is a bit of a lost art (and I think we, as a culture, really are starting to feel the pinch of that loss).

Calla Firestorm

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to Mavis)

Post #: 14

RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially - 8/28/2008 10:35:48 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

Should sojme one come to me and request any if mine not address them as Sir or Madam/Ma'am the only alternative i will agree to without breaching our own lifestyle protocol manners wise is to allow the Dominant as Mr, Mrs. oe Miss. I do not recognise or use nor allow to be used the modern term Mzz. It has no meaning in my world.

IB
(The incorrigible, irrepressible and irreverent Bear)

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

Post #: 15

RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially - 8/28/2008 10:42:58 AM

CelticPrince

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Mavis,

Nueva Vida, says it best, it is a term of salutation for many males and respect on the path.

CP

(in reply to Mavis)

Post #: 16

RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially - 8/28/2008 12:56:23 PM

Mavis

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Thank you all for your thoughts.
I'm pondering this, seems to be depending on the setting (or even the thread in question!) Sir and Maam are variably meant to infer respect of a person or position.. OR they mean nothing more than social courtesies.

For now, I'll stick with my social curtesies where expected, but I'll hope actual respect is more inferred by the way I interact with a person than use or non-use of Sir or Maam. I hope it's shown in the way I listen when You speak, my own tone when I reply, and if your words go home with me to be added to the resource-file in my head. Like this stuff! :D

(in reply to CelticPrince)

Post #: 17

RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially - 8/28/2008 1:45:44 PM

leadership527

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Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis
BUT! It drives me crazy to hear Master call his 30 year old boss "Sir". He does it out of the southern tradition, but every time I hear it, I cringe. In my mind, he might as well kneel for the kid. Seems He has debased himself for someone undeserving. Completly effs up my headspace.

Wow, where to start with this? Honestly, nobody can "debase me" but me.. ditto with your Master. It doesn't sound to me like he's debasing himself. From your description, it sounds like he's perfectly comfortable with himself and his actions (as one would expect from someone who has mastered themself before they tried to master others). It sounds to me like YOU are the one debasing your Master. It is in YOUR head that his status is being lowered. Are you OK with that?

(in reply to Mavis)

Post #: 18

RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially - 8/28/2008 2:09:28 PM

lessthanthree

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I was raised in the South, rural Alabama, specifically. I refer to men and women of equal standing to myself as "sir" or "ma'am" until I'm asked to address them by their first name (usually that means I refer to them as "sir" or "ma'am" exactly once.) It is a sign of respect, not submission.

By contrast, I insist on being called "Sir" when I'm with a sub. Which has a very different inflection.

With practice I have even learned to address people as "sir" in such a way as to imply "I despise you; but I want you to know I'm the better man. I won't be rude to you, but you are beneath me...sir." I have a few clients who get that one regularly.

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 19

RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially - 8/28/2008 2:14:32 PM

SageFemmexx

Posts: 240
Joined: 1/2/2007
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The first time I heard my husband/dominant use the term "boss" in a Southern twang I was startled. However, I came to realize he was using it as a form of courtesy as the man was his boss. A smart dominant has manners and social graces, he knows how to address his peers.

However, I won't use the term Sir, it rubs me the wrong way. It irritates the stars out of me when a pushy dominant starts demanding a title of respect when I don't know them. I realize some people believe it is a matter of manners but I believe I have the right to be respectful without using an address that makes me grit my teeth.

So, to each their own. I have the right to choose.

Sage.

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 20

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