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Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 8:47:17 AM

missturbation

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When it comes to negotiation i'm all for it. An honest upfront discussion about how things are going to be as two EQUAL adults, more if poly. Sir and i have already negotiated a couple of things namely my eating habits, sleeping habits and smoking - arghhhhhhhhh.

As i see it negotiation is more than likely, almost definately done at the beginning of a relationship or just prior to it's start. I then personally want to be able to negotiate things all through the relationship. There may be stuff we don't come across for months /years that needs to be dealt with as it arises. There may be stuff we have negotiated that has to change due to some sort of life changes etc.

Recently negotiation has been a big topic of conversation for me and not just because i've been doing some. A friend of mine who split with her Dom of four years, on and off mentioned she felt she had just given up trying to communicate her needs / trying to renegotiate. She believed it was easier just not to fight his will.

Another scenario is that of a poly family i know of that have just done a week long incarceration of one of the members in a room. The negotiation that must have gone into that prior to its occuring must have been huge. Certainly not something they would have negotiated at the beginning of their ten plus year relationship and just decided to do now, without any further discussion.

Another scenario is those who start off monogamous and then go into poly, a whole world of new negotiation.

And then theres those who just out grow the relationship and its negotiated parts and need to change / alter / redefine things to match their needs / wants now.

So i guess my questions are......
When it comes to negotiation are you the kind who negotiate once and then thats it, no room for alterations / adaptions etc?
Are you the kind who is in constant negotiation?
D types do you allow your s type to negotiate as your equal?
S types do you negotiate as an equal to your D type?
Do you even want to?

Arghhhhhhh too many questions in my head.

< Message edited by missturbation -- 8/22/2008 8:49:14 AM >

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

Post #: 1

RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 9:10:04 AM

Dnomyar

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If you have it in writing put in a line that all parts of this contract will/can be open to further negoations. Change happens. Everything should be able to be talked over.

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RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 9:11:45 AM

RavenMuse

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I don't negotiate. I state what is on offer, I listen to any problems they find and if those can be accomidated with simply clarifying what was ment then they stop being a problem, but I don't change what is on offer. Either We are compatable or We are not. End of story.

If something crops up along the road that poses a problem. I tell her My solution and she submits to it, if she can't then she has the option of withdrawing consent and walking out the door. Again, I don't negotiate.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to missturbation)

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RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 9:17:07 AM

simpleplan2

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Although I do believe in negotiation, I also like RavenMuse's approach as it clarifies everything. Agree or walk. Yup...as long as I can get out the door without any problem, that'd work just fine.

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Post #: 4

RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 9:18:02 AM

stardancer00

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i also do not "negotiate." As RavenMuse says, we are either compatible or we are not. As the relationship continues along, in the doing and the being, a certain direction becomes clear.

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Post #: 5

RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 9:23:55 AM

RavenMuse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: simpleplan2
Yup...as long as I can get out the door without any problem, that'd work just fine.

Yep that is her only right in the relationship, outlined by Me from the very start. Everything else is accountable to Me.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to simpleplan2)

Post #: 6

RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 9:24:46 AM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
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I "negotiate" with those who bottom to me and who don't really know me -- like for casual play. I -discuss- with people who are in a longer-term relationship. We gave up on the whole 'written contract' thing a while back. It didn't seem to add much to our dynamic, and we found that it was more effective -for us- to take each day as it came.

We do a good bit of 'discussing' early on, before we even decide that there -is- a "relationship". We lay our cards on the table, and look for places where we may need to focus some attention later on as well... and we talk openly about things that might cause the relationship to 'belly up' or that are non-negotiable aspects of that relationship.... then we -live-.

Our servants are not our equals. We are in an -intentionally- non-egalitarian relationship. That doesn't mean that we don't listen to our servants. It -does- mean that, if something needs to be discussed, there is a certain protocol that goes into bringing that issue forward, depending on who is bringing it up. Once the topic is on the table, though, everyone involved contributes until the issue is resolved.

For some things, time makes a difference, and so does the depth of the relationship. The bond-servants we've had haven't asked for big discussions around new activities or putting pressure on remaining limits. That doesn't mean that, if one -did- need more discussion time, xhe wouldn't get it, but it does reflect, I think, the realization that the bond-servant who had been with us the shortest amount of time had been with us for 3 years. In that time, we'd worked intimately on the relationship, so when one of us said "hey, I want to try X", the bond-servant knew that we would do so as safely as possible, even if xhe hadn't played that way with us before. I wouldn't try that with someone who'd just been with us for a couple of months... I'd want to explain more, and really get a sense for comfort level, only because broken trust and deep-seated fears occurring early in a relationship "poison the well" for the rest of that relationship... and most don't survive that kind of poisoning.

I hope this answered the question.

CFB

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 8/22/2008 9:26:03 AM >

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***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 9:44:45 AM

FRSguy

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Joined: 9/4/2007
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So i guess my questions are......
When it comes to negotiation are you the kind who negotiate once and then thats it, no room for alterations / adaptions etc?
Are you the kind who is in constant negotiation?
D types do you allow your s type to negotiate as your equal?
Do you even want to?

Its my beliefe that once you stop negotiating its like setting an egg timer on your relationship. It starts out staying quiet then it ends up feeling uncomfortable bringing up the topics then it leads to disatisfaction which leads to our happy little internet explorers. For me I allways have to give the opertunity to negotiate.I want to know the limits before the scene to a degree but not to the point where it ruins the surprise so to speak.

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 8

RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 9:54:20 AM

StayOfExecution

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I've never been with a Dom who was willing to negotiate. And...I actually like it that way.

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I'm not the gambling kind. And you look like a risk.

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RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 10:00:32 AM

NeedingMore220

Posts: 615
Joined: 6/5/2008
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I had a situation arise yesterday which addresses this, miss.

I received an email from my Dom with an assignment. This was completely out of my comfort zone, and I panicked and sent an email explaining my reasons why this was not comfortable for me, and asking him to reconsider, then clicked 'send'.

Then I felt unease for a couple of hours and finally realized what was causing said unease - the fact that my sending that email meant that I was really the one in control, not him. Duh. In my momentary stress I allowed the fact that I accepted him as my Master for a reason, and that I trusted him, to go to the wayside.

So off went the second email, apologizing for not trusting him and advising him that his order had been obeyed. And we talked about it today, and all is well.

So ... I guess the bottom line for me is that I don't want negotiation. I want him to be in charge. I do want to feel that I am heard within our relationship - I have a voice, after all, and he wishes me to communicate my needs and desires with him. But it is his final decision which needs to be obeyed, and that's that. YMMV.

< Message edited by NeedingMore220 -- 8/22/2008 10:01:24 AM >

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RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 10:02:56 AM

Lynnxz

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From: Atlanta
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I'll negotiate to a point, but I have a certain distaste for my relationships requiring more paperwork than buying a car.

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RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 10:17:50 AM

missturbation

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Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
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quote:

As you said you didn't really know the one sub... just because she wasn't a priority for you at the time.

Ok so just to clarify a little. The negotiations i have been having with Sir are about changing my eating habits so they are healthier. I currently eat once a day and not always a healthy choice. The second part is my sleeping pattern. I am up half the night on the internet and then sleep until dinnertime (sometimes). I do hasten to add i work funny shifts running a pub. Then theres smoking, Sir just wants me to give up.
Fine i can do all these things. Can i do them all at once? Not without consequences. So i asked Sir if we could negotiate on the details, time frame. He agreed and we did and came up with something that suited us both.
Are you saying you would not even consider having a discussion like that?

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to RavenMuse)

Post #: 12

RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 10:20:14 AM

missturbation

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quote:

I want him to be in charge. I do want to feel that I am heard within our relationship - I have a voice, after all, and he wishes me to communicate my needs and desires with him. But it is his final decision which needs to be obeyed, and that's that. YMMV.

Absolutely.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to NeedingMore220)

Post #: 13

RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 10:23:51 AM

cantilena

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I'm not reading the word negotiate in the OP as another word for demand, or refuse, or control. Rather, I'm reading the word as part of ongoing communication, or as part of discussion.

We're not TPE, or TAE. So ongoing negotiation, discussion and clarification of issues/desires/needs/wants is definitely part of my relationship. If my other took a my-way-or-the-highway approach to any facet of our relationship, we'd probably not last the years we intend to. Things change. People change. Situations change. That's just part of real life.

I think the difference may be that we're not master/slave? I imagine it would be very different for the couples who are more into total power/authority transfer. Just my guess.

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RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 10:30:12 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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Hello Misst!
Darcy and I never negociated. We still haven't and never do. We communicate - if something is difficult for me, or if I need to make a request then I do, but we don't negociate it. He makes the decision and I obey. I would not of entered a relationship where negociation was part of it. For me, that would not imply surrender. People are either compatable or they are not.

the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 10:33:04 AM

RavenMuse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
Are you saying you would not even consider having a discussion like that?

There is a big difference between discussion (Where My girl is giving Me her opinion on what she feels will be difficult for her) and negotiation (Where by she is saying what she will or won't do or attempt to do)

Baseline, I Own her, if I tell her to do something she will try 100% to do what I required of her. It is My Decision not hers. However I listen to My girls opinion, it is one of the pieces of information I use in reaching My decisions. I am good at guaging what she CAN achieve, which is often different to what she thinks she can achieve.

she isn't in a position to say what she will or won't do, it isn't her choise. However I don't ask her to do something I know is impossible for her, difficult certainly, but impossible no. In the rare event that she doesn't manage to achieve what I required of her, so long as I can tell she gave 100% in the attempt then she hasn't failed and I can look at why she didn't achieve it and help her develop, improve for next time so she is better placed to achieve it.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 16

RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 10:39:42 AM

missturbation

Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
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quote:

There is a big difference between discussion (Where My girl is giving Me her opinion on what she feels will be difficult for her) and negotiation (Where by she is saying what she will or won't do or attempt to do)

See i don't see negotiating as me saying i will or will not do something. I see negotiating as saying yes i will make an attempt at what you are asking but im also asking you take into account x,yz.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to RavenMuse)

Post #: 17

RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 10:41:34 AM

missturbation

Posts: 8290
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From: another planet
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Hello Misst!
Darcy and I never negociated. We still haven't and never do. We communicate - if something is difficult for me, or if I need to make a request then I do, but we don't negociate it. He makes the decision and I obey. I would not of entered a relationship where negociation was part of it. For me, that would not imply surrender. People are either compatable or they are not.

the.dark.

I think we are on reasonably the same page except you call it making a request i call it negotiating

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 18

RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 10:48:20 AM

camille65

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
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We didn't do any formal negotiations at all, we just muddled along finding things that fell into the 'like' or 'dislike' side and talked about them as they occurred.

Negotiating a relationships feels weird to me. On one hand its totally logical to lay everything out and have the boundaries written or talked about. On the other hand I simply didn't know everything to talk about. He had me do one of those BDSM checklists but that was all and even that was more for fun than for rules. It would just feel weird to try and cover every possibility and every reaction to that possibility. Instead we let the stuff happen and go from there.

I am comfortable in his hands, there has never been a time when he pushed me into something that scared me or that I disliked. Perhaps he is just more astute at reading my body language and tone of voice?

He does push me but not into doing activities. He pushes me into answering him, into being utterly honest with myself and therefore with him. He pushes me to do the things I need to get done and also pushes me to drop things and rest when he says so.

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~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

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RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 10:52:40 AM

RCdc

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Probably...
Negociation is a means to an end - in other words - it's like a map where the result is based on taking into account certain factors. Darcy and I do not do this. For example, you just said to Raven that you are saying you will attempt it and asking him to take into account x,y,z - for us, I wouldn't be allowed to do that, nor would I want to.

Personally, We don't see negociation as 'Yes I will do breathplay but please remember to take into account my asthma.' That is more a case of wither not trusting the other person enough to have remembered, or second guessing their thoughts. Negotiation is more - 'Yes I will do breathplay but only when you have done some breathplay demos or first aid course'. Negociation is about give and take. I can't see how surrender fits into such a thing?

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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