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RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 10:54:34 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse
I Own her,


With all due respect to both you and misst....there is a huge difference between where the two of you are coming from. Correct me if I'm wrong but misst is just getting to know this guy (if it's the same guy that you got together with last weekend). She SHOULD be doing a whole lot of discussing and yes, negotiating....before any kind of a commitment gets made.

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 10:55:22 AM   
IvyMorgan


Posts: 729
Joined: 7/5/2007
From: Midlands, UK
Status: offline 		When I worked, I negotiated (in Raven's sense of the term) because regardless if I was on top or on bottom, I was in ultimate control.  And I did get some seriously weird requests that had to be stomped on, hard.

I communicate with Ben/Sir, but, what he says goes.  I'll say "this is hard for me" but that will be the end of my comment.  I think I asked for time to get used to the idea once.  He's very good at checking in with me post whatever it was we did.

I think one of the big reasons my last relationship didn't work was because we never sat down and talked, about what we wanted, what we expected, etc.  If we'd been a bit clearer going in, a lot of, certainly my, frustrations wouldn't have been such an issue.  As it is, the two of us work well as friends, where my expectations of what will come from him are vastly different to if we were in a relationship.  We're compatible like this.

I will discuss, I will communicate, I will clarify and explain my statements.  I don't think it very likely I will say "I'm not doing that" (nb I did make it very clear I would not eat a prawn.  I stand by that.  Prawns are evil, vile things.  They do not go in my mouth.)

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RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 11:03:29 AM   
girlivy


Posts: 699
Joined: 7/6/2007
Status: offline 		 both communication and negotation require pretty much the same ideals,  openess, honesty, respect, a giver and reciever... it does seem that the latter is just another form of the first. in my expierences,  i can and will communicate all day long, but throw the "N" word into the mix, and my mindset changes. In fact a while back i even posted a thread on how to negotiate, as i am uncomfortable doing it, for reasons i am comfortable with.... Thanks for this thread!  it has helped :)


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RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 11:04:19 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

When it comes to negotiation are you the kind who negotiate once and then thats it, no room for alterations / adaptions etc?

Yes, this would be me...BUT....it's how I would go about things because I would know that the person I was with would expect that life would change with us and I would hope that he would make those 'alterations' along the way without me having to step and say 'hey wait a minute, we need to talk about this and this and this and this so let's sit down and do it'.
I am the kind of person that needs to know I can trust my partner to do that.
Not sure If I explained this well or not
quote:

  S types do you negotiate as an equal to your D type?

Absolutly NOT. I am NOT looking for equality in my relationships.

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RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 11:08:13 AM   
littlesarbonn


Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline 		I negotiate pretty much everything beforehand but that being said, my negotiations don't really require a whole lot of compromise from the dominant with whom I'm communicating.

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RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 11:24:08 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse
I Own her,


With all due respect to both you and misst....there is a huge difference between where the two of you are coming from. Correct me if I'm wrong but misst is just getting to know this guy (if it's the same guy that you got together with last weekend). She SHOULD be doing a whole lot of discussing and yes, negotiating....before any kind of a commitment gets made.


She wasn't asking for advice on her situation, she was asking about how others viewed it and put it into practice. Sort of implies there will be differences between her and those answering the thread!

And even at the start of Me meeting metalmiss, the same applied... I don't negotiate, We where simply compatable.


< Message edited by RavenMuse -- 8/22/2008 11:25:00 AM >

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RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 12:04:12 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		If you mean negotiate as in "I tell her what I expect, she tells me any problems or issues, and then I deal with them", then I am all for it and use it as a practice regularly.

If you mean negotiate as in "compromise", then nope.

I don't even like the word compromise. It's an ugly word and makes me feel kind of sick on the inside when I hear it.

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RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 12:06:00 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

I negotiate pretty much everything beforehand but that being said, my negotiations don't really require a whole lot of compromise from the dominant with whom I'm communicating.


There it is again! Oh, the pain!

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Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 1:36:35 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

So i guess my questions are......
When it comes to negotiation are you the kind who negotiate once and then thats it, no room for alterations / adaptions etc?
Are you the kind who is in constant negotiation?
D types do you allow your s type to negotiate as your equal?
S types do you negotiate as an equal to your D type?
Do you even want to?

Arghhhhhhh too many questions in my head.


oh god.. I don't envy people in D/s relationships.... this negotiating thing seems to be a real pain in the ass for many people.

I have an M/s dynamic.. so.......No negotiations.  However... just because there isn't negotiation doesn't mean there isn't any communication.  In fact.. in both relationships styles.. communication is very important...

Negotiating to me is a dividing or establishment of authority... Not an issue in my M/s dynamic.  It's not a question of negotiating if I can decide this or that as in a D/s dynamic... it is more a questin is this or that... good for the relationship or bad... and is it good or bad for an individual in the relationship.  If it's bad.... well how bad?  is it destructive... is it just a minor pimple....  I get the facts... then make the decision.   and I said FACTS... not opinions... huge difference in my world.  Facts are objective... opinions maybe based on objective facts but often they also include subjective feelings and thoughts.

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RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 1:41:23 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

I think we are on reasonably the same page except you call it making a request i call it negotiating


A request is not negotiation.  By it's nature... a request is establishing that the authority rests with the person that the request is to.  Negotiation by it's nature is establishing who will have the authority on a given issue and who requests should be made too if at all.

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 2:14:56 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		So i guess my questions are......
When it comes to negotiation are you the kind who negotiate once and then thats it, no room for alterations / adaptions etc?

I used to negotiate.  Went through a whole checklist of things and, while helpful, I find it is just as helpful to communicate what I like, dislike, love, hate, and where I have flexibility vs. where I don't.  Once things were agreed to in the old days, they were agreed to for a specific time period so that there was a decent chance of something either working or not.  Then re-discussion would take place and re-negotiation.  In all honesty, it worked very well with both my first and second submissives.  By the third one, it was not working so well...for many reasons, not the least of which was that I was learning more and more about myself.  Now, I would spend a great deal of time in the getting to know each other phase making it clear who I am, what I am, what I live by, why my basic rules are my basic rules and why my basic premise is my basic premise.  I also spend a great deal of time finding out what makes her tick, what turns her on, what turns her off, what she is fearless about and what makes her cry at night when she is all alone.  I look for commonalities and when I find contrasting POV, I look within myself as to the importance of that area on the dynamic and then give my own POV.  Communication...
quote:

Are you the kind who is in constant negotiation?
  Nope.  Never have been, not in the old days and certainly not now.  Too easy for a submissive to be able to have her cake one day and then eat it the next.  Too easy for me to shoulder responsibility one week and then cast it off the next when it gets rough.  Again, communication...and me as the one with the final say.  I listen for long lengths of time often but in the end, it is my decision.
quote:

D types do you allow your s type to negotiate as your equal?
S types do you negotiate as an equal to your D type?
Do you even want to?

I always expect a submissive to communicate to me as an equal.  I want her to know that I respect her thoughts, her feelings, her misgivings, her doubts...but I also want her to understand that in the beginning, she trusted me enough to submit to me...to my control, to my decisions, to having the trust that she'd picked the man with the intelligence, the kindness, the resolve, the love to do what he has said he will do and the street smarts to know when he needs to seek help elsewhere.  I will never turn a deaf ear to her and I will never break my toy nor the person that encompasses all that toy is.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 5:08:04 PM   
Evility


Posts: 915
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline 		I don't negotiate. Either you want to submit to me or you do not. It's that simple. If you don't, that is fine. Best wishes. If you do it will be on my terms.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/22/2008 5:49:31 PM   
AMaster


Posts: 814
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline 		Negotiate?  Once a sub has accepted a collar, there is no negotation.  If it isn't working, then part ways. 

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/23/2008 5:28:45 AM   
TysGalilah


Posts: 589
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline 		 
 
If I'm a healthy person, then I will continue to grow and with growth comes change.
 
If I am in a healthy relationship, then the other person(s) will also...and both parties accept this and the relationship evolves as well.
 
becoming stagnant  is full of smelly pitfalls
 
 
negotiate?  I prefer the term communicate.  We are both, always, asking questions of the other and listening to the answers.    But, in my submission> his decision is our authority.
  I can say this because we both beleive in the above about "growth and changes"   and he's not an egocentric ass..
 
 
 
 
 

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galilah

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

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RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/23/2008 9:18:21 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		OK, I have to admit, as much as it's going to be trendy to draw firm lines and make stern and domly sounding declarative sentences such as, "I never negotiate with mine." I just can't.  The bottom line is that I communicate with mine.  That communication, bound up as it is in love, carries with it layers of meaning.  I'm not really sure if I know how to separate "discussion" and "negotiation" when you take the enlightened self-interest view that happens between my wife and I.  In theory, I make all the decisionis and she provides input into that decision making process.  In point of fact though, given how much I love her, her "input" can and sometimes does carry all the weight of a final authoritative statement.  She doesn't phrase it that way.  I don't hear it that way.  But all the same, that's how it is.  A simple, specific example...

"I'll be happy to give you a blowjob right now Master, but you should know I have a migraine."  (and for the sake of this example, let's just all assume that I have 100% confidence in the fact that she would not mislead me with such a statement -- yes, she has a migraine, not a headache and it's probably pretty awful in terms of it's intensity).

Look, no matter how diffidently that statement from her was uttered, the bottom line is she just effectively stopped my "blowjob plan" as effectively as if she was the dom.  Not only that, but she knew that before she said it.  So, is that negotiation?

I guess the way it works with us is that we share ideas, then I make a decision.  But my decisions are always inclusive of her input.  And yes, I think there's an element of negotiation to that when you peer beneath the hood.

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RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/23/2008 10:33:37 AM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

... We do a good bit of 'discussing' early on, before we even decide that there -is- a "relationship". We lay our cards on the table, and look for places where we may need to focus some attention later on as well... and we talk openly about things that might cause the relationship to 'belly up' or that are non-negotiable aspects of that relationship.... then we -live-.


Couldn't have said it better myself. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

OK, I have to admit, as much as it's going to be trendy to draw firm lines and make stern and domly sounding declarative sentences such as, "I never negotiate with mine." I just can't.  The bottom line is that I communicate with mine...

...I guess the way it works with us is that we share ideas, then I make a decision.  But my decisions are always inclusive of her input.  And yes, I think there's an element of negotiation to that when you peer beneath the hood.


A man with common sense and his feet firmly on the ground... I like that! 

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/23/2008 10:44:47 AM   
TysGalilah


Posts: 589
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline 		  I just wanted to clarify ( so no misunderstandings)
I posted my response to the OP before reading the other responses...and so my response was not directed at any particular person or their answer/way of handling negotiation and communication ..
 
  my "egotistical ass" comment was generic  and NOT directed at those who choose negotiation over communication. 
but it's placement in the thread might have appeared that way..
wanted to clarify.

ok I feel better LOL
 
 
 
 

< Message edited by TysGalilah -- 8/23/2008 10:45:35 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/23/2008 3:05:45 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		I never negotiate complete surrender, I draw it forth or not.


quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
D types do you allow your s type to negotiate as your equal?


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RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/23/2008 5:36:15 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AMaster

Negotiate?  Once a sub has accepted a collar, there is no negotation.  If it isn't working, then part ways. 


No attempt to fix things?

I think this sort of statement is what makes me back away from negotiations, its always felt like this is the majority perspective and I just don't get it. If you've put the time to get to negotiating things, then why not put a bit of time into finding out whether or not things can get fixed?


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RE: Negotiate, renegotiate and then negotiate some more!! - 8/23/2008 5:55:07 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I've been thinking about this thread most of the day off and on.

A year ago I would have said I was all for negotiations. But I've come to the conclusion that's just totally not for me and basically counterproductive to the type of relationship I want.

I believe in taking the time to get to know a woman. Really talking and understanding one another. Learning what her fears are, her strengths and weaknesses. I've also gotten to know a friend of hers that she had a D/s relationship with. Not only do I know what slavery means to her, I know what the person she served before, sees in her.

Now we've built trust. We don't have to sit down and make lists, draw up a contract and sign it in blood. I am getting to know how she thinks and feels. I know that I have more limits than she does and that she doesn't want any limits. I know where she might break and not be repairable. I know that she isn't aware that she could be broken beyond repair and would very likely dive head first without alot of self preservation.

So no, I don't believe in negotiating. I believe in communication and taking responsibility.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 40
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