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RE: Religion, Mental Health and Kink - 8/14/2008 7:11:52 AM

missturbation

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The story of your childhood is awful hun, I truly feel for you. But there are many, many stories like this one in cm and everywhere you go. Take the thread here Softness started about owning your damage, there were some heart breakers in there. I think the difference between those experiences and this one is you personally have never managed to deal, come to turns with your own damage. As i have heard many times here and elsewhere its not lifes traumas that make us but how we deal with them.

I personally have never seen a therapist, so can't comment on whether they are a useful tool to help people deal with personal issues or not. I have always felt though that they possibly give a way out, are used as a solution. My therapist says i am this way because ........................ so thats what it must be. You have already stated here that the therapist you are seeing now has given you the most believable, acceptable reasons for why you are the way you are. Meaning you have had many explanations before, none of which have obviously helped or rung true for you. I'm not saying that therapy is not good or useful, but i am saying that it can be a get out clause on solving our own problems.

A couple of years back i was involved in a poly relationship where the other submissive was bi polar. It was an absolute nightmare. She couldn't even have a steady, safe relationship with herself, never mind others.I'm not saying that this is true of yourself but i would say i am very wary of those with bi polar and getting involved. Until a person can have a successful relationship with themselves, i cannot see how they can have a successful relationship with others.

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RE: Religion, Mental Health and Kink - 8/14/2008 7:51:50 AM

IvyMorgan

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*smiles at missturbation*

I'm not trying to paint my story as anything special or rare. I'm not saying I'm kinky beause of my childhood, just that maybe I've got a nice collection of mental health diagnoses, in part, because I'm kinky. Something that, I think, often times people don't want to admint/talk about because it cuts too close to the "BDSM is a mental disorder" can o' worms.

I agree with the bipolar comment. I've three good friends who have it, one I've had to walk away from, because he just didn't see how much he was hurting me, one I only have contact with when she's stable, and one who I love to pieces. But then, he is stable, and functional, and happy, and sometimes gives me brownies.

When I'm not stable, I realise it, and remove myself from situations where I might hurt people. Most of the time, I am stable. I've not had an "episode" in over a year. I'm medicated, I follow the advice and instruction, and I get on just fine.

I say this only to assure you that not all bipolar people are like the girl you were poly with, even though I know that some of them (many of them?) are.

I read softness's damage thread, at the time with the view that I'd dealt with alot of the damage (assault, rape, abuse), and I guess yesterday brought up the fact that perhaps there is a whole pile of other, less obvious, damage that I've not dealt with.

I've only seen one decent therapist, and he wasn't allowed to be mine on account of being a friend. He did help me a lot though, mainly because he didn't try and define me, my damage, or my problem. Just went with what I presented with in the here and now.

At the end of the day though, I want off the medication, and so, I need to define the problem so I can fix the problem. This definition just seems to fit better than all the others to date. I'm running with it til a better one comes along. If nothing else, it gives the community something they can work with until they discharge me for indulging in a nice, sexually gratifying, not at all escapist from my issues, flogging at the weekend.

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RE: Religion, Mental Health and Kink - 8/14/2008 8:19:09 AM

DesFIP

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You are old enough now to make your own family composed of people who love and accept you, and starting with you.

Yes, mood disorders are inherited and unfortunately unless someone in the family gets some help, the rest of the family will be in denial about their own problem.

Yes, early abuse will cause problems thereafter. And yes, a parent's inability to accept not protecting their offspring will cause them to deny that the offspring did need protection.

As far as the entire therapeutic community condemning s & m as evil, not so. Only if it manifests as preventing you from having a full life. If you can hold a job, read a book, balance a checkbook and have loving relationships that sometimes during intimacy include s & m, nobody will condemn you. It's when you obsess over it that it becomes a problem, similar to being able to have a glass of wine with dinner occasionally versus being an alcoholic.

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RE: Religion, Mental Health and Kink - 8/14/2008 8:19:15 AM

missturbation

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan

*smiles at missturbation*

I'm not trying to paint my story as anything special or rare. I'm not saying I'm kinky beause of my childhood, just that maybe I've got a nice collection of mental health diagnoses, in part, because I'm kinky. Something that, I think, often times people don't want to admint/talk about because it cuts too close to the "BDSM is a mental disorder" can o' worms.

My apologies i wasn't trying to say you were making out you were special or rare. I was more trying to point out that in my opinion we need to own our own damage instead of relying on others to heal us.
It worries me a little that you call it a 'nice collection of mental health diagnoses'. Almost soundslike you enjoy, revel in having them. Apologies if that is not how you meant it to come across.

quote:

I agree with the bipolar comment. I've three good friends who have it, one I've had to walk away from, because he just didn't see how much he was hurting me, one I only have contact with when she's stable, and one who I love to pieces. But then, he is stable, and functional, and happy, and sometimes gives me brownies.

I agree. I understand my experience with bi polar is not everyones. Again i was just trying to say that my understanding is that those with bi polar don't always have successful relationships with themselves never mind anyone else.

quote:

When I'm not stable, I realise it, and remove myself from situations where I might hurt people. Most of the time, I am stable. I've not had an "episode" in over a year. I'm medicated, I follow the advice and instruction, and I get on just fine.

All good

quote:

I say this only to assure you that not all bipolar people are like the girl you were poly with, even though I know that some of them (many of them?) are.

I wouldn't even presume to presume how many are lol.

quote:

I read softness's damage thread, at the time with the view that I'd dealt with alot of the damage (assault, rape, abuse), and I guess yesterday brought up the fact that perhaps there is a whole pile of other, less obvious, damage that I've not dealt with.

Fantastic that you can see you still have issues yourself. Again i was only speaking of relying on therapy to heavily and letting them deal with problems, rather than dealing yourself.

quote:

At the end of the day though, I want off the medication, and so, I need to define the problem so I can fix the problem. This definition just seems to fit better than all the others to date. I'm running with it til a better one comes along. If nothing else, it gives the community something they can work with until they discharge me for indulging in a nice, sexually gratifying, not at all escapist from my issues, flogging at the weekend.

Again a little worrying that you would run with someones diagnosis until a better one comes along. Other people cannot solve your problems, help certainly, make them all go away, probably not.

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RE: Religion, Mental Health and Kink - 8/14/2008 9:05:03 AM

IvyMorgan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

It worries me a little that you call it a 'nice collection of mental health diagnoses'. Almost soundslike you enjoy, revel in having them. Apologies if that is not how you meant it to come across.

You're right, it wasn't how I intended it to come across. I have an ability not to come across as I intend to. It stems from not understanding people very well. Like many things, I'm working on it.

quote:

Fantastic that you can see you still have issues yourself. Again i was only speaking of relying on therapy to heavily and letting them deal with problems, rather than dealing yourself.

My understanding of therapy, and I agree that this is not everyone's, is that it helps you find your issues, sometimes to understand where they come from, but actually working through them and coming out the other side, is all on you. Therapy and counsellors are guides, they don't make the journey for you.

quote:

Again a little worrying that you would run with someones diagnosis until a better one comes along. Other people cannot solve your problems, help certainly, make them all go away, probably not.

Perhaps "explanination" is a better word. I need a framework to work within to make some progress. For the moment, this explaination fits and means I can do some (hopefully productive) "work", if/when it ceases to be the most effective way of looking at the problem, I will change the explaination to something better.

No-one else is going to be able to help me come to terms with what happened, or make me happy and whole in myself. Other people can offer me love, support and caring etc, but if I don't come into whatever my relationship with those other people is "whole" I am not only doing myself and them a disservice, but I will leave that relationship just as broken as when I entered it.

nb I use relationship as a word to explain how two or more people interact with one another, not necessaily in a romantic/fuck your brains out way.

Edit cos my quote tags were all wrong

< Message edited by IvyMorgan -- 8/14/2008 9:06:00 AM >

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RE: Religion, Mental Health and Kink - 8/14/2008 9:08:16 AM

missturbation

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Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: Religion, Mental Health and Kink - 8/14/2008 9:13:03 AM

IvyMorgan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
As far as the entire therapeutic community condemning s & m as evil, not so. Only if it manifests as preventing you from having a full life. If you can hold a job, read a book, balance a checkbook and have loving relationships that sometimes during intimacy include s & m, nobody will condemn you. It's when you obsess over it that it becomes a problem, similar to being able to have a glass of wine with dinner occasionally versus being an alcoholic.

I don't mean therapeutic community as in "all therapists/mental healt professionals" I mean it relating to the specific community of about 15 residents and handful of nurses that I'm being placed in in about 4 weeks time.

That, very specific, therapeutic community have branded all forms of S&M (including being a sadist) self harm.

That branding is going to be discussed again in my admission interview, and probably again at my 4 week review, and is going to likely be one of the many things that I and the community disagree on, fundamentally. It also, unless some understanding is reached, going to be one of the things I go in knowing I will "lie" to them about, and so, according to the way they work, invalidate my therapy with them, as the only way to progress is with total open-ness and honesty.

I'm not obsessed with S&M/BDSM, it gives me sexual gratification, it's part of my sexuality, but by no means all of it. I don't use it to avoid/run from/hide from my "issues". I do it cos it makes me all gooey inside, and then I go floaty with a big smile on my face. Self harm, never, ever did that.

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RE: Religion, Mental Health and Kink - 8/14/2008 9:21:41 AM

thetammyjo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
As far as the entire therapeutic community condemning s & m as evil, not so. Only if it manifests as preventing you from having a full life. If you can hold a job, read a book, balance a checkbook and have loving relationships that sometimes during intimacy include s & m, nobody will condemn you. It's when you obsess over it that it becomes a problem, similar to being able to have a glass of wine with dinner occasionally versus being an alcoholic.

I don't mean therapeutic community as in "all therapists/mental healt professionals" I mean it relating to the specific community of about 15 residents and handful of nurses that I'm being placed in in about 4 weeks time.

That, very specific, therapeutic community have branded all forms of S&M (including being a sadist) self harm.

That branding is going to be discussed again in my admission interview, and probably again at my 4 week review, and is going to likely be one of the many things that I and the community disagree on, fundamentally. It also, unless some understanding is reached, going to be one of the things I go in knowing I will "lie" to them about, and so, according to the way they work, invalidate my therapy with them, as the only way to progress is with total open-ness and honesty.

I'm not obsessed with S&M/BDSM, it gives me sexual gratification, it's part of my sexuality, but by no means all of it. I don't use it to avoid/run from/hide from my "issues". I do it cos it makes me all gooey inside, and then I go floaty with a big smile on my face. Self harm, never, ever did that.

Is this the best community for you to be in then for 4 weeks?

Is it an insurance or expense thing?

Once SM is brought up to someone who thinks it is sick or evil, whether or not you bring up again may not be the issue. In that environment they may feel the need to "save" you.

Can you leave any time you want should that happen?

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RE: Religion, Mental Health and Kink - 8/14/2008 9:32:39 AM

IvyMorgan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
Is this the best community for you to be in then for 4 weeks?

No idea, still working on figuring that one out. I'm trying to be openminded though.

quote:

Is it an insurance or expense thing?

It's an NHS thing. Despite the fact that there is a specialist centre for people like me, I can't and won't be referred to them until all local avenues have been explored. So, I get to go to the community for a year.

I have money for provate treatment, but people look at my case file/history and politely decline to treat me.

I do not have insurace, and wouldn't be able to get it if I tried, pre-existing medical condition that this is.

quote:

Once SM is brought up to someone who thinks it is sick or evil, whether or not you bring up again may not be the issue. In that environment they may feel the need to "save" you.

I've had scores of well meaning Christians try to "save" me. The one thing I learnt (aside from how to debate very well and how to quote reams and reams of bible verses right back at em) is that I don't need saving. There is nothing wrong with my form or Christianity, my form or religious expression or my spirituality.

I also don't believe there's anything "wrong" with my kink/sexuality. But, I am open to the idea that I just know that on an intellectual level and don't believe it on an emotional one yet, hence some of my issues.

If they try to "save" me, they may find me far less tolerant that I normally am.

quote:

Can you leave any time you want should that happen?

Yes, the community is entirely voluntary and will not consider taking people who are on section. They do not believe in working with people who are "forced" in any way to be there. Of course, if I leave, finding continual help within the NHS (and so by extension at all) will be a challenge, so perhaps I'm more "forced" than they would like me to be.

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RE: Religion, Mental Health and Kink - 8/16/2008 4:34:35 PM

GrinderV

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Hi Ivy, I'm GrinderV. I have written you through my friend's profile, "Lindamae" and finally gotten my system going, so now I am writting you from my profile. Lindamae showed me the site and I read your "blog", "expressions" or just looking for a "response" to your situation or issues, depending on which side you want to look at it. I am not sure if you are seeking acceptance, approval or sympathy. Everybody has their "Demons" to bare, it is not the demons that make us, but how we face our demons that define you! So, learn from the past, deal with today and plan for tomorrow. Most of all, when you look into the mirror, to whom do you see, not those who say your good or bad, for all they say are opinions and that is all but words, there should be only one face you see in the mirror......yours! If you don't like what you see, then change it, but if you are satisfied, then accept who you are, the person you see in the mirror is the only person on earth you must answer for and need to please. My belief is there is only one that will sit in judgement of me and is sure isn't any person I know.
But then, this is "my" opinion.....so, does it really matter? Believe in yourself, for if you can't, then who will believe in you.
Peace..... GrinderV

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