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RE: Cops Raid Mayor's Home, Shoot His Dogs - 8/11/2008 10:43:00 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bethnai

Civilian oversight works if the civilians are educated in the system. The problem is relying on someone else to watch it. There are things that are considered common knowledge that most of the public does not have one iota of. The Reid interrogation method, cops lie on the stand, eye witness testimony, miranda rights, court appointed attorneys, what to pay attention to in a court order, etc. You could very easily be or pick your worst nightmare on the forums the oversight.

I know it wasn't for me, I just happen to be very friggin opinionated here.

True,nobody`s perfect,cept for Al.

I think the more the merrier.The more sunlight,the better.

What`s the downside?In what way(as was suggested)would civilian oversight cause or add to a situation like this?I`m puzzle by that assertion.

Some towns and cities have half their police force (or more) and elected officials,related to one another.The more people watching ,the better.However imperfect that is,too.

We know men make mistakes.The ones we give guns and badges to make mistakes too.

The only restraint on these mistakes we know are going to happen, are the rules we set up.

Imo,there is a digression ,with people giving the state`s agents the benefit of any doubt and not to our rights to be secure in our homes,with our papers etc.as spelled out in the BOR.

Bethnai,
Did you serve on a COC or another type of group?Thanks if you did.So few people are adding and stepping up in their communities.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 8/11/2008 10:49:36 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Bethnai)

Post #: 21

RE: Cops Raid Mayor's Home, Shoot His Dogs - 8/11/2008 10:56:44 AM

slaveboyforyou

Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline

quote:

A smarter cop would have phoned and asked for them to surrender,1st.

In this particular case, they should have waited to see what he was going to do with the package he took in the house. I really don't understand the logic in grabbing him right after he took the package in the house. How the hell were they going to figure out what his intentions were otherwise? If he truly was guilty, he would have went through the motions of sending on to the next level of distribution. Since he obviously was just the unlucky recipient of it, he probably would have opened it up and shit himself.....then called the police.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 22

RE: Cops Raid Mayor's Home, Shoot His Dogs - 8/11/2008 11:05:10 AM

Bethnai

Posts: 492
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline

You got mail.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 23

RE: Cops Raid Mayor's Home, Shoot His Dogs - 8/11/2008 11:15:51 AM

aggressiveblkdom

Posts: 127
Joined: 5/21/2007
From: The Dark Side of The Moon
Status: offline

While this is definitely not a funny situation, this whole setup sounds exactly like the comedy skit that Dave Chapelle did concerning the two very different sides of the law. The side that corporate, and upper-class America are usually exposed to; and then the side that poor and middle-class America have to deal with.

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 24

RE: Cops Raid Mayor's Home, Shoot His Dogs - 8/11/2008 11:18:13 AM

tsatske

Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline

Yes, He did. He was effing hilarous. He had the cops saying things to each other like, 'can you believe this N- has broken into some nice white man's house and is just laying down on his bed to have a sleep! what an invasion! Will you look at this - that N- boy took the time to hand up photographs of himself and his whole family around the damn house! The nerve!'

_____________________________

“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
~Dr. Seuss quote

(in reply to aggressiveblkdom)

Post #: 25

RE: Cops Raid Mayor's Home, Shoot His Dogs - 8/11/2008 11:22:06 AM

mastervalentine

Posts: 157
Joined: 3/9/2008
Status: offline

... I wonder just how far people can be pushed before they take up arms to defend what little they have left to keep...

_____________________________

"If philosophy has taught me any one thing, it is that a rushed action invites disaster." ~MasterValentine

Say not, 'I have found the truth,' but rather, 'I have found a truth.' Kahlil Gibran

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 26

RE: Cops Raid Mayor's Home, Shoot His Dogs - 8/11/2008 11:28:13 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

Reminds me of this SP episode

http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/103885/

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to tsatske)

Post #: 27

RE: Cops Raid Mayor's Home, Shoot His Dogs - 8/11/2008 11:32:56 AM

tsatske

Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

You hear about the police doing this all the time when they raid homes. But usually it's some poor shmoe with no political weight. You'll see in the article that the police said they felt "threatened.," which is what they always say.

Yes, but that does not make it okay with me. It is just not okay that we live in a country where I am safer becuase I am white and more or less middle class (some days more, some days less)
please don't read that wrong, slaveboy. I read nothing in your post which suggested to me that you think that is okay, either.
In DC, cops break in unannounced on an 90 year old grandmother and gun her down. When it turns out that someone in her neighborhood was using her address to sell drugs on her stoop - no relationship to her, unbeknowst to her - you hear people all over the place talking about it, saying, 'well, comeon, she KNEW. I mean, she had something to do with it.'
It makes me so mad I could SPIT.
When police offers fire 100s of bullets into a bridegroom and best man, because, as it turns out, the cops, undercover at a strip club, (and the only white faces in the joint - there is a police station that needs a class in 'undercover') over heard someone at the party say to other party goers 'I'm a gonna get out my gun' (while, according to witnesses, grabbing his crotch and poiting at a stripper), the cops decided the prudent way to handle it was to wait till the gentlemen left the gentleman's club and unload the service pieces of a dozen cops into their bodies. 50 rounds into the body of the bridegroom alone. No guns found on any civilain nor in their cars - but the cops felt threatened.
I have the uttmost respect for the police and what they do. My youngest, who is away in the Middle East with the Marines right now, is planning to be a cop. (He was planning to be president when he was a child. Oh, well.)
I have nothing but respect for the police. Except for those.
The Mayor said 'Harmed by the people paid to protect us.' Does he believe the police are paid to protect HIM - or all of his constiuancy? Since I do not live there, I do not have an opinion, because I do not know his day to day politics to form an opinion.
I do know that, since 911, I have gotten onto airplanes, into court houses, and into see national treasures, with my pocket knife. I simply forget it's there. And no one searches all that closely, if you are a 40 year old fat white woman who looks like someone's Mom.
If Minorities tell you that is a fact, people brush them off as being whiners. So, those of us who see ourselves recive those favors must be the ones to speak up. It is not okay.
I wish the Mayor would have spoken to knowing how it feels, now, to be among that kind of minority.

_____________________________

“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
~Dr. Seuss quote

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 28

RE: Cops Raid Mayor's Home, Shoot His Dogs - 8/11/2008 11:37:55 AM

tsatske

Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline

quote:

... I wonder just how far people can be pushed before they take up arms to defend what little they have left to keep...

"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;
And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;
And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."

~Pastor Martin Niemöller

After confining the Jews to Warsaw, they came and told them to turn over all their youngest children. And they did.
Not because they are differant than us, but because they are the same.
We always talk about that magic point, at which people will rebel. History seems to tell us that that point does not exist.

_____________________________

“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
~Dr. Seuss quote

(in reply to mastervalentine)

Post #: 29

RE: Cops Raid Mayor's Home, Shoot His Dogs - 8/11/2008 11:41:27 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

Great post,couldn`t agree more.

The post three clicks up about armed insurrection, is way way scarier than the unfortunate but normal mistakes LEOs will make.

Wayyyyyy scarier.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks for your boy`s service.Prayers that he comes home soon and safe.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 8/11/2008 12:08:23 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to tsatske)

Post #: 30

RE: Cops Raid Mayor's Home, Shoot His Dogs - 8/11/2008 11:47:08 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

...I really don't understand the logic in grabbing him right after he took the package in the house...

that should be pretty obvious, slaveboy...it was MARIJUANA, after all, and we all know that the EVIL WEED must be stopped, no matter who, or what, suffers and/or dies because of it.

imagine the horror it would have caused if even one tiny speck of it had made it's way out of that package and poisened the whole family to death, just from the odor alone.

thank GOD those brave policemen went in and saved the family and the whole neighborhood from a downward spiral of jazz music and white women being lured by black men into debauchery.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 8/11/2008 11:49:27 AM >

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 31

RE: Cops Raid Mayor's Home, Shoot His Dogs - 8/11/2008 12:59:18 PM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

quote:

I think the more the merrier.The more sunlight,the better.

What`s the downside?In what way(as was suggested)would civilian oversight cause or add to a situation like this?I`m puzzle by that assertion.

What's the down side to more corrupt politicians lining their pockets out of the police budget? Or coming up with more policies like 'no knock'? Or using the police as weapons aginst political rivals as suggested in the OP case?
Probably none that you can see. Probably a lot for other people.

If you cannot realize that far too often 'Citizen's' comittees are either advisory in nature, i.e. powerless and out of the loop, or they are corrupt insiders cut from the same cloth as school boards , plenty of other folks see that reality all too well

Is public school boards the success story you are hoping to emulate by adding more layers of politicians to the ranks of policy makers?

There is a huge difference between the real world, and basing your opinions on TV.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 8/11/2008 1:33:35 PM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 32

RE: Cops Raid Mayor's Home, Shoot His Dogs - 8/11/2008 1:23:15 PM

candystripper

Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline

Yes, I read about this when it happened and was outraged too. I agree with you -- civilian oversight of police is a necessity. We've had a rash of police shootings here in which the victims were minorities in poor neighborhoods.....one wonders how much 'review' these incidents are really getting.

candystripper

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 33

RE: Cops Raid Mayor's Home, Shoot His Dogs - 8/11/2008 3:40:55 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

We need to take away the guns from these "Police". There's too much of a chance of an innocent bystander getting injured due to failures in hiring, training, supervision, discipline and termination practices.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to candystripper)

Post #: 34

RE: Cops Raid Mayor's Home, Shoot His Dogs - 8/11/2008 8:09:37 PM

aggressiveblkdom

Posts: 127
Joined: 5/21/2007
From: The Dark Side of The Moon
Status: offline

The sad thing candystripper is that when it happens to minorities the rest of america; for the most part; turn a blind eye to it because hey, it's not happening to them. So when something like this happens to someone who isnt a minority and people are all up in arms about how horrible it is that the dogs were shot, etc. etc (not downplaying how horribly wrong this is)....most minorities simply look at it as "welcome to our world". And when someone does retaliate against the police, or attempt to defend themselves, the media and corporate america put the whole "angry, violent minority" spin on things so the focus is taken completely away from the police action which served as the catalyst. It's a sad sad cycle, which is leading to far worse things in the imminent future.

(in reply to candystripper)

Post #: 35

RE: Cops Raid Mayor's Home, Shoot His Dogs - 8/11/2008 8:28:05 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

Yes, I read about this when it happened and was outraged too. I agree with you -- civilian oversight of police is a necessity. We've had a rash of police shootings here in which the victims were minorities in poor neighborhoods.....one wonders how much 'review' these incidents are really getting.

candystripper

Sorry Candystripper,oversight,as suggested by someone from the real world,adds to the problems of police abuse and brutality,and doesn`t ease them.

Sorry....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Agressiveblkdom,

Great post.Most middle-class whites are clueless about what happens to blacks, every day,rich and poor.Mostly poor.

You`ve done it class too.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 8/11/2008 8:29:10 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to candystripper)

Post #: 36

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