Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Human Nature


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Human Nature Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Human Nature - 8/7/2008 10:22:19 AM   
DefinitivelyDom


Posts: 21
Joined: 10/10/2007
Status: offline
I won't debate My abilities to understand human nature..

And I can't help plato, socrates, moore, and augustine understand either... They're dead and philophized at a different time when human nature was 1st being analyzed...

Things have changed since then..

As has human nature with all its influences that they could've never imagined back then...

As for tenured PHD's?,, maybe if they got their heads out of a book, relying off of book driven credentials earned, and actually lived a life outside of some controlled lab??? I'd give them some consideration...

Yes, human nature evolves... It evolves with societal, technical, and spriritual influences... I understand this...

Yet I do know that no matter how much it evolves???

Genetically we are made of the same material that our neanderthal ancestors were made of.. And there will be forever that influence of genetics that will drive our instincts..

Yet it has been tempered by spiritual morality that requires humans to conform in order to be accepted by the masses..

Governments and Religions knowing its easier to manage a cloned society that it is to manage a society of individualists...

So they subliminally force us down a path of conformity with their fear mongering ways (laws)..

I do understand science as well, and how it fits into the formula..

How man has a need to conquer to gain, and protect to maintain.

I know how women have an innate need to nurture, service, and support the man protector with anything he may require that insures their need for protection...

Those are physical needs as much, if not more, than psychological needs...

Todays society works to suppress those physical, and psychological needs in the name of morality.. A determined need to supress those in order to gain control...

Yes, I have to conform in order to survive within this society...

But I don't need to do so inside the walls of My own property...

I can be that natural human we were all designed to be in order to perpetuate the human species...

The intent is to identify those who can appreciate, and flourish within such an environment provided while still being able to appreciate some of the good things a modern society provides for us culturally...

Yes, I am part neanderthal, and part modern day conformist gentleman...

Yet I Am Always a realist, and thats what intimidates people. Unfortunately.

I did not provide this reasoning, and justification as to who I am and why I am for debate...

I provided it for the continued constant quest for understanding, and maybe appreciation.

Yet it is that understanding that intrigues their souls.

It is that same understanding that creates their fear to submit to it.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Human Nature - 8/7/2008 10:23:58 AM   
DefinitivelyDom


Posts: 21
Joined: 10/10/2007
Status: offline
I hate typos... It should be philosiphized not philophized...

(in reply to DefinitivelyDom)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Human Nature - 8/7/2008 11:37:13 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
I'm sure you meant philosophized.

I concur that many of our responses, even this far into our evolution, are residual of our paleolithic selves. While there are generic paths that humanity, as a whole, has tended to follow, in every culture (even in paleolithic culture) there were a substantial number of individuals who strayed from the set path. If one watches other animal cultures that may mirror, in some ways, our own paleolithic development, in the context of their world, we discover that, even in pre-human communal situations, there are always set of individuals who step out of the communal pattern. These variations have been systematically ignored until recently (the past decade or so), because establishment of a genetic imperative that compelled certain societally sanctioned ways of behaving were considered 'beneficial', and also because scientists have a unique blind-spot... if something defies their pre-conceived theories, there is a good chance the the scientist in question will not even see the data -- not that xhe recognizes and dismisses it, but that xhe is constitutionally incapable of even recognizing the incompatible data. For those who -do- recognize the impact of the data, they will often repeat the questionable study, 'tweaking' the parameters until the data matches their pet theory.

Because humans have proven to be exceptionally adaptive, we have also retained the gene-mapping of these diverse non-conformists or parti-conformists in our genetic stream, because, since we have been capable of substantially greater levels of adaptation, more of these non-conforming genes have survived into our present manifestation.

I believe that this is why, even though there are culturally normative values that indicate things like:

quote:

How man has a need to conquer to gain, and protect to maintain.
and
quote:

I know how women have an innate need to nurture, service, and support the man protector with anything he may require that insures their need for protection...
the current population retains those qualities more as a residual that is reinforced by common culture than as a genetic imperative.

How a person lives in hir own domain is mapped as much by the tendency to conform to or deviate from cultural norms as it is to follow some pre-programmed genetic imperative. It served the purpose of academics at the time to enforce the ideas that would maintain the cultural status-quo. The idea was to -support- the foundations of the current society, not throw them into upheaval.

Today, I do worry that our culture is being driven away from its paleolithic underpinnings -- but it is not the categorized "male is this and female is that" that I am worried about. The part that I am worried about is the suppression of the creative, adaptive human -- the one who chooses to step out of the mold and find his or her own right path, and then develop the adaptations to survive that way. I believe that we -are- being turned into cattle -- and are being turned into cattle that other cattle are controlling... like letting the psychotics run the asylum. We are progressively eliminating creativity. We are stripping our children of the opportunity to explore ideas and arts, AND of the opportunity to use that exploration to develop their own individual perspective on the world. We are, I believe, destroying our anarchists before they have the capacity to show us what we are missing.

Yes, adaptability and creative diversion is messy. Sometimes it screws up right royally and there is danger in taking the risk of not walking down the common road. But even in this lifestyle, there are those whose practice falls closer to the common world, and those whose practice breaks new ground. In intimating that the genetic predisposition, if there is truly any such thing, is the key determinant to the soundness of an act intimates that our capacity to adapt and to create and to revise and to re-shape is without comparable value. The essence of human nature is that each human has a unique and unencultured perspective... the combination of that perspective and the enculturation of society, and how those balance out in the individual is the best determinant of the ongoing viability of the species.



_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to DefinitivelyDom)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Human Nature - 8/8/2008 8:48:16 PM   
DefinitivelyDom


Posts: 21
Joined: 10/10/2007
Status: offline
I understood 'concur'...

But the rest of what CallaFirestormbw had to share started to remind Me of talking to those same over analytical lab coat wearing folk who hypothosize crap all day without having lived a minute of it.
 
I guess thats the nature of these streams...
One trying to sound smarter than the other when the other really never intended for that.
 
Either that ot ignorant preferential ridicule from some suck up personalities trying to gain the good graces of somebody involved in any topic shared here.
 
However, it was nice of you to initially 'concur' CallaFirestormbw...
 
For the rest of us idiots out here?
'Concur' is the pompous version of the simpler word 'Agree'.
 


(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Human Nature - 8/8/2008 8:54:22 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
Is it human nature that the people who make the longest posts have the least to say?  I think a lack of clarity in thought leads to a lack of clarity in language.  Fortunately, the OP makes up for it in attitude.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to DefinitivelyDom)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Human Nature - 8/8/2008 8:55:16 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
Let me distill this a tad.
 
In currently pc society-those of us who practice more primal forms of relationships, oft time reffered to in this place as ""Domination and submission" have to create our own little bubble universes, to fly under the radar.
 
 And each grouping of individuals will devise and maintain them in thier own fashions-when accomodation fails-the bubbles pop. The silliness of trying to cubbyhole and define something as morphic and emotive as this makes logical methods purely idiotic.
 
 These connections are not logical-they are animal.
 
 I only try to define things by motivation. Some are by authority-some purely driven by the primal aspect of sexuality. Or combinations thereof.
 
 Intent.
 
 

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to DefinitivelyDom)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Human Nature - 8/8/2008 10:30:30 PM   
Solipsistic


Posts: 50
Joined: 10/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Is it human nature that the people who make the longest posts have the least to say?  I think a lack of clarity in thought leads to a lack of clarity in language.  Fortunately, the OP makes up for it in attitude.



I concur!

And to the OP, thanks for the laugh.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Human Nature - 8/8/2008 11:49:52 PM   
Maxwell67


Posts: 435
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Let me distill this a tad.
 
In currently pc society-those of us who practice more primal forms of relationships, oft time reffered to in this place as ""Domination and submission" have to create our own little bubble universes, to fly under the radar.
 
 And each grouping of individuals will devise and maintain them in thier own fashions-when accomodation fails-the bubbles pop. The silliness of trying to cubbyhole and define something as morphic and emotive as this makes logical methods purely idiotic.
 
 These connections are not logical-they are animal.
 
 I only try to define things by motivation. Some are by authority-some purely driven by the primal aspect of sexuality. Or combinations thereof.
 
 Intent.
 
 

Wow, you can really sling the BS!  I'm impressed.  That was twisted enough to need to be read more than twice to be fully understood in it's own context, buf breif.  You should win an award for this.

I think we are finding ourselves in the unique position of for the first time in the history of any species taking control of our own evolutionary process and it scares the hell out of us.  It is going to happen, we are Human and it's possible.  Get in on the ground floor folks. 

There is another term I like for some kinds of science-fiction and fantasy I read:  Speculative fiction.  It is not as if we have not seen this one coming.

Since we are social creatures, civilization is evolving as well. How it evolves is just as much a part of our evolution at our genetic structure.  You see changes that need to be made.  That seems obvious.  Do you think you can change fate?  Tragedy as I understand it, is about unavoidable fate.  The heores see it coming and try in their pride to avoid it, and they are often very clever, but they fail.  You can't cheat fate.  You can adapt to it, however.  That is what we are talking about here.  How will we adapt to changing conditions?  How will we survive in an era when high school students will be able to custom design viruses?  That is where we are headed.  You think it is not our province to mess with our evolution?  It is (insert supreme being)'s duty?  You trust the guy next to you to feel the same way?

We are running the labs here.  What we learn about looking past the established conventions matters.  Virtual space is another frontier people are not taking nearly seriously enough.  All these pixels are part of the most important creation of humanity since the printing press.  Grab the reins or get out of the way.

< Message edited by Maxwell67 -- 8/8/2008 11:54:56 PM >

(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Human Nature - 8/9/2008 1:25:10 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
Let me know when you find eve-I have a few questions for her.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n25pdHlIjI&feature=related


< Message edited by Leatherist -- 8/9/2008 1:27:37 AM >


_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to Maxwell67)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Human Nature - 8/9/2008 5:56:12 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Is it human nature that the people who make the longest posts have the least to say?  I think a lack of clarity in thought leads to a lack of clarity in language.  Fortunately, the OP makes up for it in attitude.



I appreciate the succinct brevity of your post.  OP may want to study it.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Human Nature - 8/9/2008 6:12:49 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline
I am a woman and I am my own protector, so no not all women require a man to do that for them. Yes I do nurture and care for my daughter, I love my male submissive and care for him but my being the Alpha he will do as I say. If I was with an Alpha male, he would also do what I say or he would be out the door. I can meet halfway or compromise but I will never take orders, PERIOD. That works for some people, it will never work for me.

Humans are constantly evolving, like most creatures, eventually we will find the way to equality between the sexes which, is as far as I am concerned the right way to go. When I hear people say "I am a neanderthal, or the natural human" to me that means "I am set in my ways and refuse to change for anyone." To a degree I am like that BUT I don't see every male as submissive and every female as Dominant. I realize that people are individuals and that generalizations are usually incorrect.

What maybe natural for you, maybe very foreign to someone else. A person like me for example, a female who is naturally dominant and who does not require a male "hunter/protector" as I am my own. I believe that the female tendancy to nurture has been used against us in many ways unfortunately. It has fostered the idea that we are "weak" and "in need of a man" neither of which is true at all.

Humans are evolving or should I say that some of us are..the rest prefer to live in the dark ages. Never moving forward, stagnating...

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to DefinitivelyDom)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Human Nature - 8/9/2008 6:16:04 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maxwell67

Wow, you can really sling the BS!  I'm impressed.  That was twisted enough to need to be read more than twice to be fully understood in it's own context, buf breif.  You should win an award for this.

I think we are finding ourselves in the unique position of for the first time in the history of any species taking control of our own evolutionary process and it scares the hell out of us.  It is going to happen, we are Human and it's possible.  Get in on the ground floor folks. 

There is another term I like for some kinds of science-fiction and fantasy I read:  Speculative fiction.  It is not as if we have not seen this one coming.

Since we are social creatures, civilization is evolving as well. How it evolves is just as much a part of our evolution at our genetic structure.  You see changes that need to be made.  That seems obvious.  Do you think you can change fate?  Tragedy as I understand it, is about unavoidable fate.  The heores see it coming and try in their pride to avoid it, and they are often very clever, but they fail.  You can't cheat fate.  You can adapt to it, however.  That is what we are talking about here.  How will we adapt to changing conditions?  How will we survive in an era when high school students will be able to custom design viruses?  That is where we are headed.  You think it is not our province to mess with our evolution?  It is (insert supreme being)'s duty?  You trust the guy next to you to feel the same way?

We are running the labs here.  What we learn about looking past the established conventions matters.  Virtual space is another frontier people are not taking nearly seriously enough.  All these pixels are part of the most important creation of humanity since the printing press.  Grab the reins or get out of the way.


I agree -- I think.

If I'm not reading this wrong, I may not be the only heretic who senses that we are (or could be, if we got out of our own way) our own gods... with all the latitude and responsibility that brings.

Calla Firestorm




_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to Maxwell67)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Human Nature - 8/9/2008 7:41:53 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline
Thank you!  My eyes glazed over mid way through the original post.
*muttering* never try to read these things before coffee..
Kyst

(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Human Nature - 8/9/2008 8:10:29 AM   
Maxwell67


Posts: 435
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
I agree -- I think.

If I'm not reading this wrong, I may not be the only heretic who senses that we are (or could be, if we got out of our own way) our own gods... with all the latitude and responsibility that brings.


Yep that is it.  You aren't reading it wrong.  We have always been our own gods.. well, if you count ancestor worship.  The vast majority of those old gods in the myths were walking around once upon a time and those they left behind just had a little trouble letting go.  Every time something significant happened it was ascribed to the visit of some lost friend or relative.  I have a deceased relative now who is already becoming a sort of minor family deity to a faction of my extended family. 

I'm starting to think you might have a 'heretic fetish' Calla, be careful with that.  You are in Bible belt territory and surrounded by people who like to play with fire who are not so careful about keeping it SSC if you catch my drift.

But more to the original point, What I have been reading here has struck me as basically a defense of alternative lifestyles (and a little theory, perhaps.. but the intent seems to be defense). Y'all are preachin' to the choir here.  We know mainstream society does not have all the answers.  Nor do they have enough imagination to find any new ones.  The mainstream feeds on the fringes for that.  It is the folks like us, who are willing to challenge convention who have the most to add to whatever the next paradigm will be. 

< Message edited by Maxwell67 -- 8/9/2008 8:30:31 AM >

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Human Nature - 8/9/2008 8:16:46 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline
Good post. Modern technology and industrialization has changed how humans evolve in a society. Look into Human Behavioral Evolution and there are some good theories and studies. Many question though, whether humans should evolve to such an extent that we loose more of our primal instincts. I do not believe those instincts can be lost though, just suppressed.



_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to DefinitivelyDom)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Human Nature - 8/9/2008 8:20:30 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline
My thoughts, my actions. my words and deeds need no defense. While an unexamined life may not be worth living,
to much navel gazing makes my eyes glaze over

Jeff

(in reply to Maxwell67)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Human Nature - 8/9/2008 8:29:10 AM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline
Hmm  .....  i would have thought that modern technology and industrialization were results of human evolution, not the cause of it.

I also don't think, at the present, we have control of our genetic evolution.  Sociological evolution maybe, but not genetic.   Heck, if we did, i would  be 4 inches taller and have a skinny butt.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Human Nature - 8/9/2008 8:38:26 AM   
CrazyC


Posts: 949
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Let me distill this a tad.
 
In currently pc society-those of us who practice more primal forms of relationships, oft time reffered to in this place as ""Domination and submission" have to create our own little bubble universes, to fly under the radar.
 
 And each grouping of individuals will devise and maintain them in thier own fashions-when accomodation fails-the bubbles pop. The silliness of trying to cubbyhole and define something as morphic and emotive as this makes logical methods purely idiotic.
 
 These connections are not logical-they are animal.
 
 I only try to define things by motivation. Some are by authority-some purely driven by the primal aspect of sexuality. Or combinations thereof.
 
 Intent.
 
 


LMAO!!! So true. :) Thank you.

_____________________________

"You never lose by loving. You always lose by holding back." Barbara De Angelis

(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Human Nature - 8/9/2008 9:00:27 AM   
CrazyC


Posts: 949
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
Kyst...I should have read this after coffee, also. lol

Kiwisub...I wonder if we were able to have genetic controle would we have actually grown is our social knowledge or submitted to the mass opinion.

OP....You must have forgetten that not everyone lived the western philosophy that "man beat on chest, and women bend over while i fuck you." There have been civil societies, learned, and educated. And if you had told them that the woman is the one to submit, they would have had blank looks on their face because the woman was who rules since she was the life giver.

I also have a hard time thinking we are evolving completely in a psychological way. Yes, we have evolved in how we live our lives. We live in homes instead of tents and caves, ect. But how we internalize things are the same. Many of those philosiphers you mentioned didn't study in labs, since psychology can't be learned in one without talking to others. They studied in colleges with students studing with them, and also traveled to see how other societies with diffrent veiw points lived.


< Message edited by CrazyC -- 8/9/2008 9:03:55 AM >


_____________________________

"You never lose by loving. You always lose by holding back." Barbara De Angelis

(in reply to CrazyC)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Human Nature - 8/9/2008 9:09:01 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Good post. Modern technology and industrialization has changed how humans evolve in a society. Look into Human Behavioral Evolution and there are some good theories and studies. Many question though, whether humans should evolve to such an extent that we loose more of our primal instincts. I do not believe those instincts can be lost though, just suppressed.


I somewhat agree and disagree. I think the real problem is that we haven't evolved except on the surface and in our day to day interactions within the fabric of ordered society.

It's superficial at best. We are taught behaviors and social skills. We all dance and move to a programmed beat that we have learned in order to perserve a sense of order, harmony, and control within our society.

However, this is just the surface and doesn't go beyond skin deep. Just take an objective look at history and the world as a whole. The 20th century will go down as the bloodiest in history. The rate of consumption, destruction, and damage of our planet and natural resources still continues to rise. Our culture is obsessed with violence and it is by far the #1 theme in our media and entertainment. Violent movies and violent video games routinely have record sales.

Our toys have got bigger and better, but sadly, human nature has evolved very little in comparision to a few millenium ago. We've found bigger and better ways to kill people. Bigger, better and faster ways to consume the planet. Violent games and movies have replaced the gladiator pits of Roman times. We might pat ourselves on the back for our "evolved sensibility" that allows us to fulfill our love of violence with artifical and fake means, but we're still the same as the spectators of the past, thirsting for blood.

Society just provides one big pacifier to keep us doctile, but it doesn't take much for our so called "evolved natures" to go right out the window in the midst of crisis and chaos. Just wait to gas goes up to 6 or 7 dollars a gallon and people start shooting each other again like they did in the 70s. 

Edited to Add : The failures of socialism as a system and the success of capitalism is another testament to that. The success of socialism and Marxism requires an evolved sense of human nature where people work to benefit the society as a whole and think beyond themselves. Capitalism uses human greed and selfishness as the fuel for it's engine.

We're still the same self centered, savage, and vicious animals we always have been. We've just learned how to not "act" like we are.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 8/9/2008 9:14:45 AM >


_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Human Nature Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094