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RE: John Quixote and the McCainocrats - 7/29/2008 3:47:27 PM

cloudboy

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Good post.

Love your diction: "befuddlement," and "irrational masochism."

I suppose we can all thank God for term limits, tho.

As for the republican faithful, I tend to think of the term, "unconscious masochism." (Assuming those Republicans believe in less government, fiscal responsibility, rule of law, and an aversion to nation-building in far off, hostile lands.) This might explain why they aren't seeking any kind of party reform and defend the current policies in place.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 7/29/2008 3:53:43 PM >

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RE: John Quixote and the McCainocrats - 7/29/2008 7:16:09 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Obviously......over 40.

Yep. And, courtesy of a non-traditional sort of early life, politically aware and active for damn near all of it.

Vietnam wasn't an issue in 1972?!?!? WTF!? Please just admit how completely wrong that was. I dunno... blame it on a cold pill or something. Jesus H. Christ, man... that's bad.

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RE: John Quixote and the McCainocrats - 7/29/2008 7:24:18 PM

Alumbrado

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Obviously......over 40.

We`ll learn ya.....

Note,Obama says he`d rather have only 5 dollars and someone`s vote,rather than a bigger donation.

It`ll be interesting to see if young folks sit this one out.

There was no Iraq/Viet Nam thing, going on in '72'.

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RE: John Quixote and the McCainocrats - 7/29/2008 8:24:30 PM

Hippiekinkster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

Old Gaurd Republicans seem to keep underestimating how much things have changed. Just look at how well Obama's been able to finance his campagin so far, just via individual internet donations. I hate to say it, but one of McCain's repeating mistakes so far is not understanding just how the new media works... he seems to think that he can deny things that he's said in the past, and claim credit for things he hasn't done... when the facts behind either are just a half dozen mouse clicks away... He's been embarassed several times by this, and I think, shows no signs of correcting the behavior.

Now... have things changed re: the "youth vote"? Hard to say... Most college/draft agers don't seem to have it on their radar screens, it's true. Probably because Bush has manipulated things so that we're not seeing coffins being disgorged from cargo planes endlessly, and we're not seeing much of the tens of thousands of maimed that have returned from this sand filled meat grinder. Hell, war protesters don't even make the 6:00 news anymore... they're just shuffled off to a "free speech zone/detention area." Out of sight, out of mind...

But, if anything should happen, to wake those kids up....

Wake them up... hmmmm... well, the rumor mill has it that McCain has a secret plan to reinstate the draft to fight his "Hundred Years War".

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RE: John Quixote and the McCainocrats - 7/29/2008 9:07:47 PM

caitlyn

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General ...

As an almost sure Senator Obama voter, I also feel that my choice in this election is substantually behind at this point. So much of his support is soft. He hasn't done well in states he must win.

I'm worried.

I think two things need to happen. He needs to stop trotting around the globe winning the votes of Europeans who don't vote, come home, and present an economic plan that will make people in places like Ohio, want to vote for him. He needs to select Governor Richadson as his running mate, to win the Hispanic vote, as voting block that is far from soft.

The problem with this, is that these goals are somewhat contrary. People in places like Ohio want protection from their jobs going to Mexico, or to Mexicans in the United States. Hispanics want open immigration, and more opportunity for joint American/Mexican business interests.

This is why the escapade in Europe annoyed me. Senator Obama must secure the working Northwest and Midwest now, and get these folks on board, well in advance of courting the Hispanic vote. If he waits any longer, and tries to do both at once, he will piss off both groups at once, and get hammered in the general.

If you are a supporter of Senator Obama, we have work to do.

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RE: John Quixote and the McCainocrats - 7/29/2008 9:13:43 PM

Alumbrado

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Richardson would be an interesting choice..but possibly a polarizing one...

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RE: John Quixote and the McCainocrats - 7/29/2008 9:58:37 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Senator Obama must secure the working Northwest and Midwest now, and get these folks on board,

I'm not so sure, Caitlyn. Giving them some space might not be such a bad strategy before the convention. Many of them will come around as the realities of voting for Bush's chosen heir sink in. Obama will have his opportunities to reel those in, later in the game. Change is scarier for older working people, than passionate young ones.

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RE: John Quixote and the McCainocrats - 7/30/2008 7:41:55 AM

Musicmystery

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~FR~

Several interesting points posted here.

The blue collar vote and swing states are, of course, important. Will those Dem voters go for McCain instead? And will older white voters vote for a black man? I know my stepmom still believes the Muslim bullshit, as do her friends. (My dad knows better than to debate with me.)

But along with the conventional wisdom of mastering the traditional blue state/swing state map, Obama has brought in a number of (potential, at least) new, energized voters. They could conceivably swing "red" states. After all, only the Electoral College system makes us looks so red and blue--look at maps by county, and you quickly see the country is purple.

Way back, I'd have suggested an Obama/Edwards ticket, but I don't think that will happen--nor do I think an Obama/Clinton ticket is likely. An Obama/Richardson ticket, though, is an intriguing idea--yes for the Hispanic reasons mentioned, but also because he's an experienced, well-qualified, insight potential for a future presidency. An excellent choice. I haven't heard any wind of that, but who knows--anything's possible.

I don't see Richardson as polarizing. First, he already has solid Washington experience, and second, many commentators are musing about the sometimes bad blood between Hispanics and African-Americans. It's a choice that could mollify some concerned Hispanics, while unlikely to deter African-American votors.

My guess, though--and it's only a guess--is that the VP will be an interesting, solid, but surprise choice.

I don't share caitlyn's dim view of the overseas trip. I was in part a chance to actually talk to these leaders--and it turned out that they agree with Obama largely, embarrassing those critics who say he's inexperienced or naive about foreign affairs. It also showed him looking "presidential" while McCain puttered around at home. Further, it displayed his careful judgment, balancing European concerns with a speech obviously understood to be viewed by American voters.

But it's still a ways to November.

Tim

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RE: John Quixote and the McCainocrats - 7/30/2008 9:06:43 AM

Thadius

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Morning Tim,

Now, now... a purple map? Have you ever looked at a county by county breakdown? http://alt.cimedia.com/ajc/pdf/elect_results_uscounty.pdf
Granted that is just from the last presidential election, but it shows a definite pattern.

I think you are on to something with the Richardson selection, I might even go as far as to say perhaps he will surprise us with a Chuck Hagel pick.

There is still a long way to go, I wonder if Obama is going to peak to early, there is only so far that flowery speeches can get somebody, before folks start asking for specifics.

Just my opinion,
Thadius

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RE: John Quixote and the McCainocrats - 7/30/2008 10:02:50 AM

Wildfleurs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Hey Cap`m Buzzkill,

There are a hell of a lot of folks(younger Obama types) who don`t have land-line phones and don`t show up on these polls.

The polls should start out but saying "according to respondents who have old phone technology",blah blah blah....

Folks on the internetz,those using Blackberrys,cells,I-phones,etc.,don`t get heard in these old tech polls.

And those are the people ,most likely to vote democratic or at least not be total GOP types.

You are wrong, Gallup does in fact include cell phone numbers in their random dialing (and has since January of this year). See: http://blogs.usatoday.com/gallup/2008/01/gallup-adds-cel.html

C~

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RE: John Quixote and the McCainocrats - 7/30/2008 11:00:28 AM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Morning Tim,

Now, now... a purple map? Have you ever looked at a county by county breakdown? http://alt.cimedia.com/ajc/pdf/elect_results_uscounty.pdf
Granted that is just from the last presidential election, but it shows a definite pattern.

I think you are on to something with the Richardson selection, I might even go as far as to say perhaps he will surprise us with a Chuck Hagel pick.

There is still a long way to go, I wonder if Obama is going to peak to early, there is only so far that flowery speeches can get somebody, before folks start asking for specifics.

Just my opinion,
Thadius

Greetings Thadius,

To your first question--yes, many, many times.

Your last paragraph---and this is a serious reply, not a smart-ass comment (and it's not a defense of anyone)--

All politicians will give vague positions and avoid specifics. Why? Specifics open the door to attacks, and voters tolerate generaliities.

The economist Buchanan published a bunch of truly fascinating research about this, if you or anyone else cares to look it up.

Vote well,

Tim

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RE: John Quixote and the McCainocrats - 7/30/2008 4:29:21 PM

Alumbrado

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quote:

I don't see Richardson as polarizing.

Among the many assumptions that could be wrongly made about 'the Hispanic vote', is that it is a homogeneous demographic. I suspect that the Republicans are falling for it while grooming Jeb's son, and I suspect that Obama's team may fall for it as well.

Hollywood lost a bundle making that assumption in the 50s... refilmed big movies at night with Hispanic crews, and sent the reels to cinemas in Spanish speaking parts of the world...they were laughed out of the theaters.

To people within the Hispanic community, small differences may mean a lot.. If Richardson is seen as a Spaniard he will be received differently by some Mexican immigrants, than if his mother had been born in Altar.

If he is seen as a Southwestern US Latino, some of the older Cubans are just as likely to go for McCain.

Hell, some people are going to remember him for his association with Nixon and Kiisinger.

I think he's had an interesting career, which is bound to provide some traction against him in the muck of a campign such as this one is shaping up to be.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 7/30/2008 4:32:50 PM >

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RE: John Quixote and the McCainocrats - 7/31/2008 7:28:26 AM

Musicmystery

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Hey! Guess what!

I agree with you on this point!

;-)

Tim

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