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Losing Faith in Humanity... - 7/27/2008 2:02:45 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		I've mentioned on the boards in the past that I have a 17 yr old "nephew" (the son of a now semi-close friend) - same kid that I sometimes refer to as my "apprentice" because I've been teaching him things about my business and that sort of thing.  This weekend, any further dealings that I have with the kid are Over.  The camel's back has been proverbially broken, he's fucked up for the final time, whatever you wanna call it.  Over the course of Friday and Saturday, we (me, the 17yr old, and the general contractor buddy of mine that Impliments a lot of my Remodeling and Landscaping ideas - because he has more technical knowhow than I have, dangit lol) put in a deck in my back yard, and a door leading from a room in my house directly onto the deck.  
 
 During the course of the 2 1/2 days that it took to do the project - they slept in my home, ate well at my expense (steak and pizza for dinner on the two nights, and whatever they wanted fast food wise for lunchs), had their soda and such provided for them at my expense, enjoyed my cable (neither of them has cable or satelite at home) - and got paid for the work done as well.  Personally, I feel feeding them and providing entertainment during breaks (in the form of the XBox and Cable) and providing what they wanted in the way of sodas, gatoraide, etc to drink - with None of it being out of what they were getting paid - shoulda been met with some gratitude.  And on top of everything else, I sent the 17 yr old home with nearly $100 in food for the freezer, since his  mom doesn't make a lot of money.
 
Instead of gratitude from the 17 year old, I found that he had attempted to rip me off.  Nothing major - nothing big - nothing really Worth anything - except the principal involved.  I guess I shouldn't have been surprised - since his mother has attempted to steal from me in the past.
 
What really gets to me though is her attitude.  Before I ever got back to my home from dropping the boy back off at their home, I had recieved a call from her on my cell AND gotten a nasty instant message - bitching at me about not paying him enough.  So  I called her back, after I got home, and was rather ..... Disturbed ....... by the entire conversation.  Not a single word of thanks, or even acknowledgement, that I had fed her kid all weekend and sent him home with food for the fridge - only a snide remark about me supposedly being "petty" for chewing him out for attempted Theft, and being pissed off that I felt it was "somehow important" that he learn that it's Wrong to steal, and even More Wrong to steal from people that are Supposedly your Friends. 
 
What sort of mentality does it take, for someone to think that it's somehow OK to steal from the people that are there to watch their back and help them out in times of trouble?  What sort of Lack of anything resembling Ethics does it take to figure out that if someone has done everything they can to help you, it's Not Wise to turn around and attempt to screw them over - and flat out Stupid to try and screw them over and then get pissed because they Catch you at it and don't think it's Funny?  That old saying "Don't bite the hand that feeds you" comes to mind here - and apparantly it's one that she hasn't bothered to teach him.  I'm finding that I no longer have the patience or fortitude to attempt to teach him anything, since she finds it perfectly acceptable behavior.  I don't think either of them comprehended - and perhaps they simply aren't Capable of comprehending - that it's NOT the monetary factor that upset me about the incident - it's the fact that he was willing to blatantly steal something (ANYTHING) from someone who has done nothing but be good to him and helped them both out consistantly well above and beyond the call of friendship's duty.
 
Anyway - I had to say something Somewhere about this - and since the people who are mutual aquaintances of mine and theirs aren't the sort to really comprehend why it upsets me, I figured I'd let off some steam Here instead and get the ranting out of my system.

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RE: Losing Faith in Humanity... - 7/27/2008 2:10:30 PM   
Aynne


Posts: 740
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Rhi I know we don't always agree... but seriously that is bullshit. You paid him and provided food, room and board and all the rest?  Yep, I think that until he can show you some respect and some appreciation he needs to be cut off.   I am totally appalled by his mom's attitude too, doesn't is just suck when you do the right thing and it makes you feel good only to be totally let down? Argh, I frigging hate that. I am sorry he was such a brat about it. Hopefully he will come around before those habits of being ungrateful become permanent.

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RE: Losing Faith in Humanity... - 7/27/2008 2:28:48 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		It's not simply "until he can show some respect" Aynne.  This isn't the first time over the past 2 or 3 years that one or the other of them has pulled various lil stupid ass stunts and considered me the "bad guy" for telling them it was Wrong rather than laughing and thinking it was just grand.
 
I had warned him the last time he screwed up that if he did so again, any help or teaching he got from me was Over, period.
 
I just...... find it completely incomprehensible that someone can be This Stupid, ya know?  He's NOT a stupid kid - he's almost to intelligent for his own good - but likes to play dumb because he figures that people won't Expect as much out of him if they mistakenly Think he's a complete idiot.
 
And his mom's whole thing was that it was "seriously fucked up" that I needed to wait until tomorrow (when the bank is Open, where I can get the money out to do so) to pay him -  and that since the monetary value of what he attempted to steal was low, I should have blown it off and simply given it to him in the first place, if he wanted it that much.  It seriously does Not surprise me that she felt that way about his attempted theft - because I learned 2 years ago that I don't dare leave her unsupervised in my house even long enough to go to the bathroom, or she'll steal any pain pills or muscle relaxants that I happen to have that aren't under lock and key in the friggin safe!
 
In a way, I pity the kid.  Because he's Going to end up in jail by the time he's 21 if something doesn't change.  And the chances of something changing are growing less and less each day.  I'd been trying to teach the kid, keep him busy in my shop learning things, etc, so he could see there was another way - a way Other than being a slimeball, a thief, a welfare sucking druggie (not that they all are, but that's a route I can see him rapidly heading towards at this rate!)   I can't do it any longer.  I can't tolerate such, and even less do I have any tolerance for people who pull such and then blame the person that catches them rather than feeling the least bit of remorse for their own actions.

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RE: Losing Faith in Humanity... - 7/27/2008 2:38:22 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline 		Next she'll find some pretext to sue you.
 
K.
 

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RE: Losing Faith in Humanity... - 7/27/2008 2:41:36 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		Doubtful - they can't even consistantly afford to keep all the utilities turned on - there's less than a snowball's chance in hades that she could afford a lawyer to try and do that.  (Especially knowing that I already have a lawyer on retainer for various things.)
 
I'm just way beyond disappointed, and fed up, at this point.

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RE: Losing Faith in Humanity... - 7/27/2008 2:41:59 PM   
Aynne


Posts: 740
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline 		You have been extremely forgiving and apparently he is choosing to not care, especially if he is smart kid like you say. If his mom tried to steal drugs from you he obviously has not much a great influence at home, that really is a shame that he has someone that wants to help him be a better person and a chance to learn the *right* way to live and be a responsible adult and he blew it again.

Honestly, I know it is shitty, but I would have a really hard time paying him tomorrow with that attitude and the attempted theft. I know he did the work, but stealing kind of negates it. But I think with a mom like his you would just be inviting more drama if you didn't. God, that really sucks.  Has he tried to communicate with you at all or is it all her? 

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*founder of I Love Lushy Inc.*

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RE: Losing Faith in Humanity... - 7/27/2008 2:48:14 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I would pay him what he earned minus the cost of having him for the weekend. Add up all the food bills plus electricity for the games, send him a check. And deduct FICA, I know it's a ton of paperwork, but it will teach him a lesson. And mail a check, with any luck he'll have to wait days to cash it, or lose another chunk to one of those check cashing places.

But make it clear if he comes to your house again, you will call the police. At his age, he won't be charged as a juvenile.

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RE: Losing Faith in Humanity... - 7/27/2008 2:50:35 PM   
Aynne


Posts: 740
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline 		Perfect. That is the way to handle it. Tough cookies. 

http://www.ehow.com/how_2222710_calculate-fica-withholding.html

< Message edited by Aynne -- 7/27/2008 2:52:24 PM >

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*Yes I know I have no profile at this time...

I looked in your eyes
Without saying a word
I told you what I am
And I hoped that you heard

~Owned and Loved by Master Sifu~

*founder of I Love Lushy Inc.*

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RE: Losing Faith in Humanity... - 7/27/2008 2:52:57 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		The kid doesn't seem to have any example of much of anything coming from home and I can well understand wanting to give him a chance and show him a few things as well as helping him make a few bucks.  It is disppointing when they continue with what they have lived and don't use the efforts given on their behalf to help them find a better way.  You almost want to give up on helping people or being involved with them. 

You did all you could and in a situation like this, you have no choice but to give up on them and let them find their way as they will.  It is hard to accept and even harder to continue to deal with the BS.  I feel for you.  You are mad, disappointed and want to throw your hands in the air.  To be called out like that is fueling it all and makes you want to smack some smarts into someone.  I give you credit for not doing so! lol  I hope they don't give you any more trouble... what they have done really sucks.  Hang in there!

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RE: Losing Faith in Humanity... - 7/27/2008 3:33:16 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		When I dropped him off, he was sullen and refused to say anything to me - I had just finished chewing his ass out for catching him in the attempted theft.  It's doubtful that he would bother trying to contact me, since it's consistantly been his mom that does for various reasons and he simply makes comments about coming over to work or learn something new when I'm over there anyway.
 
Lockit - you're right that I'm angry and upset - but not that I want to throw my hands up in disgust.  What I Wanted to do was beat him within a quarter inch of his life, til he was 6 different shades of black and blue, then kick him a few times for good measure.
 
What will Probably happen - since I've already heard from the contractor buddy who did the majority of the work that she called and whined to HIM as well - is that she'll bitch and whine and cry for a while, refrain from calling or contacting me for the next several weeks to couple of months - then the next time they've got a cut off notice on something, she'll call me and try to act like nothing ever happened and be shocked when I tell her, "Nope - the well has run dry - my giving help is Over."  In the past when I've allowed things to slide (as in her throwing a temper tantrum and not contacting me for a while until she thinks I've somehow Forgotten what a shit one of them has been) that's been her pattern.  She waits til she thinks it's blown over, then calls up because she wants something and acts shocked that I haven't forgotten or that I'm not appologizing to HER for them  being shits.

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Rhi
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
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RE: Losing Faith in Humanity... - 7/27/2008 3:51:02 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I hear ya!  Would have been real tempting to do just that!  The whole situation sucks... but calling the contractor would be something I really had a hard time dealing with.  Besides all they have done, it sounds like there is a bit of slander they are attempting.  I hope it doesn't cause you any trouble with him.  I'm sure he didn't like getting a call!  At least he has witnessed a lot of this and might be able to help if they do anything further.

I hope you can let it go a bit and find some enjoyment in the new deck.  Just sounds like you need a bug zapper on it... cause these people are real pests!


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RE: Losing Faith in Humanity... - 7/27/2008 3:55:21 PM   
NeedingMore220


Posts: 615
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline 		I'm going to play devil's advocate here. This kid is on a really bad course.  Of course you can't accept his stealing from you.  But to cut him off totally will cut off any route he may have to living a better life - examples are strong, even if his nitwit brain isn't allowing him to see it yet.  I'd cut off the mom, definitely - but him at 17?  I don't know that I'd be so fast to pull the plug forever.  For a period of time, yes.  But if he has no avenue whatsoever to turn to to get away from what his mom teaches him, he'll truly have nowhere. 

I'd give him the money - deduct for food, if you feel it's necessary.  But it sounds like he does need it.  But when you give it to him, perhaps reiterate how hurt and pissed you are about his stealing from you but let it be known that should he want to talk, you were available. 

You never know... if he were 25, I'd say cut him off, but at this point in the game, his brain is still developing and his mother is a huge influence and the 'easy' life of drugs and stealing seems attractive.  Just by giving him the inkling of an out may help.

All that being said, I completely understand your feeling violated by him and his mother.  A dear friend of mine has a sister like this and has been used and stolen from time and again. 

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RE: Losing Faith in Humanity... - 7/27/2008 4:08:24 PM   
faerytattoodgirl


Posts: 5824
Status: offline 		come join my alien friends and i...

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RE: Losing Faith in Humanity... - 7/27/2008 4:17:37 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		Cut the mother off completely , tell the nephew that he won't hear from you for 6 months, and then set conditions for continued mentoring. If he doesn't  keep to the conditions then you are out of there. If this kid is as intelligent as you think, then if he sees the benefits of associating with you then he will uphold his part of the relationship.

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RE: Losing Faith in Humanity... - 7/27/2008 4:20:57 PM   
SilverWulf


Posts: 196
Joined: 4/7/2005
Status: offline 		<FR>

It really sucks when those you try to help turn around and stab you in the back.  Got that t-shirt, in several sizes.

I totally agree with cutting the mom off from any further help and all contact in the future if that is possible.

Depending on the history with the kid, and it sounds like there is some significant history there, it does sound like he really needs an adult to look up to and he isn't getting that at home.  If possible, extend your hand and offer to help, but with a very well defined set of rules in place.  Let it be known that if he screw up again it is over forever.  Try and make him understand what you are offering by allowing him in your shop and teaching him what you know.  Put it in terms he'll understand... 'if you went to school for this it would cost you X amount of dollars, but I'm willing to teach you because I care' ... although you may have already tried this.

It is a tough situation and not a fun one to be in, good luck and I hope things calm down.

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RE: Losing Faith in Humanity... - 7/27/2008 4:28:22 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
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Status: offline 		HGP, if he were 6 years old, you might be able to reach him.  But he's 17.

His mother is a waste of oxygen.  He's following her lead.  I'm not even 100% sure that the theft was his idea and not hers.

Whatever.  You've given him his chances and set clear rules.  It was his choice not to follow them.  It's sad that his mother never explained to him that you were setting him up to have a saleable trade.  Now, he's screwed his chance, lost his chance to use you as a reference, and generally messed himself up totally.

If he's lucky, he'll straighten himself out.  You can keep on trying to save the world, but only that part open to being saved.


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RE: Losing Faith in Humanity... - 7/27/2008 4:37:06 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		Kiwi - the problem is, last time he got into trouble of some sort - I put conditions on my continued mentoring.  I put the condition that he remain in school - he was supposed to be in summer classes, just so he'd have enough credits to graduate next spring at the end of his senior year, but he hasn't gone.  He was warned that any further fuckups with Me Specifically would be the absolute end of me teaching him, mentoring him, or even much tolerating him in close proximity.
 
If I basically do the same thing again - let it slide, putting conditions on things continuing - all he ultimately Learns from it is that if he whines enough, the consequences of his actions won't ever actually come to pass.  This time was basically the "last chance" - because he's been given several already, and screwed up consistantly every single time, regardless of how often I told him "ok, new rules on how things are gonna work" or "You know how to contact me, but you have to straight up" or "Hey, it would cost you X to learn this elsewhere."   For both his sake (in the long run) and my OWN - I have to stick to my guns this time and cut him off at the kneecaps, despite his youth.
 
Lockit - the deck isn't "finished finished" yet.  The main deck is laid and usable - but next weekend, we're building a second, much smaller decking area on top of one corner of the current one - which is being built specifically so I can put in a hottub there!  (Can we all say "Nekkid Hottub Party At Rhi's!"  I knew we could!)   With the landscaping that's going to be done to the backyard, the whole project is probably going to take about a month.  Main deck went in this weekend.  Secondary deck for hottub, and moving the storage sheds to their new permanent location out of the middle of the yard (where my father put them originally) happens next weekend.  2 weeks from now, we start digging the trench for the stream, and the hole for the koi pond, as well as working on the "Workings" of the waterfall that's going in inbetween the 2 sheds (behind a wall that we're planning to build between them to essentially hide the mechanical stuff like pumps and filters.)   Week after that, privacy fencing goes the rest of the way up, waterfall gets finished, koi pond gets finished, and the stone work along the miniature stream, to hide the "wall" part of the waterfall, and around the edges of the koi pond gets done.  Then in bits and pieces after that I'll be doing some things like planting water plants along the edges of the pond where stonework isn't laid, building a couple of small raised circular flowerbeds for roses, and that sort of landscaping finishing touchs.  Oh, and building a custom grill area that can use either propane or charcoal, and has it's own countertop area for prepwork and such.  (Which will probably be done along the fence to one side, a couple of feet off the deck itself but close enough to be handy without taking up the limited deckspace.)   The whole thing is a MAJOR renovation project here at my place, to basically turn the back yard into a sort of outdoor living room/sanctuary/retreat/entertainment area.

Edited to add : It wasn't any huge shock to me that she called my contractor buddy - they've known each other about the same length of time that she and I have known each other - he's another person that she refers to as a "friend" - she simply knows that he doesn't Have any spare funds for her to whine about wanting to borrow!

< Message edited by hizgeorgiapeach -- 7/27/2008 4:43:43 PM >

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RE: Losing Faith in Humanity... - 7/27/2008 4:45:26 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Ohhh didn't realize there was a major project going on!  Well, when it is done it sounds like it will be amazing!

I agree, you have to stick to your guns in this one!  If for no other reason, but to show him you mean it and there is a price to pay.  You can't help some people and some need to learn that even though we come from bad places, there is a time when we have to be accountable and do something for ourselves.  You may have actually helped him, but it might not be seen for a while.

I don't envy you this situation... but dang... that yard and fixin's sound like paradise!  You go!

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RE: Losing Faith in Humanity... - 7/27/2008 4:50:00 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		But they could take you to small claims court. The upper limit on these cases vary, somewhere between CA's $25,000, and MI's $3500, tops. Neither side can bring a lawyer, you have to represent yourself, and if the person being sued doesn't show, the court can find for the prosecution up to three times the damages asked for...

There's no harm in making sure your documentation on this incident is in order...

Of course, the other thing you could do, is file a theft report....

Just sayin'...

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RE: Losing Faith in Humanity... - 7/27/2008 4:57:15 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit
I don't envy you this situation... but dang... that yard and fixin's sound like paradise!  You go!


The Backyard Project (as we've collectively deemed it, amongst my local friends lmao ) has been something I've had in mind for almost the entire 2  years since dad had his stroke.  He always wanted to do "more" with the backyard - but he kept his own schedule so busy with work, church, squaredancing, a couple of shooting clubs, and other various odds and ends - that he never Quite got around to doing much other than keeping the trees somewhat trimmed back once a year!  One of them, who knows how things stand with dad's estate trust, my being trustee, and my idiot brother's various manipulations over the past two years, asked me recently "How do you plan to justify the expenditure, if he decides to make trouble again?"  Simple (and surprisingly enough Honest) answer, "Duty as Trustee to improve the assets of the Trust."  Between the back deck and landscaping/water feature, and the front deck that extended the porch, and the various renovations/repairs/remodling projects done over the past 2 years Inside the house - the value of the place has been raised significantly more than has been invested in materials and labor!
 
Offering to have the boy come help - and earn a bit of spending cash in doing so - was done as much because it IS a Major Project around here as it was simply because I was being nice to the kid.  It was an opportunity for him to start learning some basic carpentry skills and such as well.  I don't count on him actually coming to the conclusion that he screwed himself in the long run - he's been taught for to long now that when things don't go his way it's someone else's fault or they aren't being fair to him somehow, by expecting actions to have consequences.

_____________________________

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Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Essential Scentsations

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