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RE: Switches Non Entities - 7/19/2008 12:04:58 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		Here, our "top" and "bottom" SIGs are open to anyone who is in "top" mode at the time, or "bottom" mode.... all we ask is "if you come in as a sub, don't start topping all the subbies", and "if you come in as a top, don't start slavishly drooling over all the tops" In other words... stay on topic.

I think there's a lot of confusion about switches, just like there is a lot of confusion between the Straight/Gay population when you talk about bisexuals. To me, a switch is another person who likes keeping options open. I can understand that, as I am a true bisexual myself -- I really don't have any major preference of one gender over another.

I think that switching gives a flexibility that, with the right person or people, could make for an amazing life and a broad exploration of the facets of relating and "kinking". I've been on both sides of the collar, but it's been at different times. I find myself constitutionally unable to switch, though one would think that, having experienced both, it would be easy now. It's not. For myself, I found that being in a submissive role was hard work -- I had to push myself to stay there, on top of the push from our house full of dominants... no matter how much they pushed, I found that, if I relaxed, instead of dipping deeper into submission, I bobbed around somewhere on the fringes of "bossy sub". Because of that, I have great respect for the people who can move gracefully between bottom and top and back, etc..

Switches are anathema to most of the BDSM world. People like to be able to put other people in boxes, and switches don't fit conveniently in one box or another.... they sort of dangle between the two, and to some, this feels "messy"... and it sets off that tendency to try to either ignore it, explain it away, or 'fix' it. For me, I know how wonderful it is to be able to love freely, and not have to care whether the person is male or female... and I envy those who have the capacity to experience the kink aspects of their lives with that kind of flexibility.

Hahnemann, the father of homeopathy, said that true health is measured in the individual's capacity for flexibility: The more flexible the person, the healthier xhe is. I would say that, if this theory bears even a hint of truth, then for kinksters, the mark of true health and acceptance of self comes with the capacity to switch when it best benefits the person or relationship that the person values.

Firestorm





_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Switches Non Entities - 7/19/2008 1:47:08 PM   
TwoDommeDivas


Posts: 36
Joined: 7/7/2008
Status: offline 		Capricious, arbitrary, pointless, meaningless, exclusionary binary divisions.  Switches are not non-entities.  Switches are both dominant and submissive, alternately and sometimes simulatneously.

But humans are petty little fucks who love nothing more than getting into exclusive little circle jerks to prop up their own, easily shattered self-images.  Secure people, whether dominant or submissive or switch, have no such needs, and both recognize the spectum over the false dichotomy and enjoy the diversity of perspective and expression.

M. Dana

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Switches Non Entities - 7/19/2008 3:18:36 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		RE: OP
 
People form groups because they have seen a need and have taken the initiative to fill that need.
 
I have often wondered why switches don't form their own groups if this is such an issue?  People have a right to be exclusive without critisim, especially if they have found their needs aren't being met.  If one is not of like mind, then why try to push yourself on the group?

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Switches Non Entities - 7/19/2008 5:47:10 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		funny think you live in texas  which is a big change with the crap going on right now on so many levels

the days out right kink expression in that state are going to come to end  I am afraid 

the crazy kinky folk saying how you can be or can not be well if  it is there event ok what ever
just boycot it  lol   you know sometimes staying at home and just being romantic ds wise with your partner rocks
but then again who i am to say i am just another crazy kinky person  lol

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Switches Non Entities - 7/19/2008 6:08:03 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

Switches are anathema to most of the BDSM world. People like to be able to put other people in boxes, and switches don't fit conveniently in one box or another.... they sort of dangle between the two, and to some, this feels "messy"... and it sets off that tendency to try to either ignore it, explain it away, or 'fix' it. For me, I know how wonderful it is to be able to love freely, and not have to care whether the person is male or female... and I envy those who have the capacity to experience the kink aspects of their lives with that kind of flexibility.


I'm going to address this sentiment since I see it over and over again on the switch forums.  I, for one, do not find switches "special or unique" nor misunderstood.  To me these are merely party-people.  Anything that gets them action is where they want to be.  No problem, but don't put down a group or situation that was formed by people filling THEIR need.  Maybe they wanted a "world" of their own.  Why would a switch want to hang out with people such at that?  My god.. the audacity of them to fill their OWN needs and not parasitically feed from another's efforts and then bitch about it.

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Switches Non Entities - 7/20/2008 5:27:56 AM   
Guilty1974


Posts: 467
Joined: 11/2/2005
From: Den Haag
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

So why are switches allowed and welcomed into "sub only" and "dom only" groups?


Personally I don't really identify as "switch". Towards some I have dominant feelings, to others submissive feelings. With a handfull it could be both. But when I'm dominant, I'm not a switch. When I'm submissive, I'm not a switch.

If switches weren't allowed in dom and sub only groups, they would really lack something. There's nothing as boring as switch only groups, because there's usually not that much to discuss about being switch.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Switches Non Entities - 7/20/2008 10:17:52 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Guilty1974

If switches weren't allowed in dom and sub only groups, they would really lack something. There's nothing as boring as switch only groups, because there's usually not that much to discuss about being switch.



.. so why would one want to go to a dom and sub only group that isn't even intersted in switching?  If switch groups are boring.. what's that say in general about switching?

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to Guilty1974)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Switches Non Entities - 7/20/2008 10:23:27 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: Guilty1974

If switches weren't allowed in dom and sub only groups, they would really lack something. There's nothing as boring as switch only groups, because there's usually not that much to discuss about being switch.



.. so why would one want to go to a dom and sub only group that isn't even intersted in switching?  If switch groups are boring.. what's that say in general about switching?


First, I can't imagine switches would have little to talk about.

Second, what makes you think a switch would come to a dom or sub group and talk about switching, rather than just adding his/her perspective as a dom in a dom group, and his/her perspective as a sub in a sub group?  Why limit additional dom or sub points of view in such groups?  It appears to me that to do so smacks of prejudice against switches as a whole so let's not include them at all.

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Good is the enemy of great.

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Switches Non Entities - 7/20/2008 10:38:47 AM   
Guilty1974


Posts: 467
Joined: 11/2/2005
From: Den Haag
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
.. so why would one want to go to a dom and sub only group that isn't even intersted in switching?


To exchange views/experiences/etc. on being a Dom (or sub, depending on the group)? Why on earth should someone be interested in switching to learn something from a switch or to teach something to a switch?

quote:


If switch groups are boring.. what's that say in general about switching?


That there's not much to discuss about actual switching. Most switches I know simply want to discuss their experiences as a Dom or sub, and that doesn't really take another switch at the other end of the line, does it?

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Switches Non Entities - 7/20/2008 1:24:15 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Guilty1974

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
.. so why would one want to go to a dom and sub only group that isn't even intersted in switching?


To exchange views/experiences/etc. on being a Dom (or sub, depending on the group)? Why on earth should someone be interested in switching to learn something from a switch or to teach something to a switch?

quote:


If switch groups are boring.. what's that say in general about switching?


That there's not much to discuss about actual switching. Most switches I know simply want to discuss their experiences as a Dom or sub, and that doesn't really take another switch at the other end of the line, does it?



Well, "boring" was the key word.  If one does not switch nor appreciate the switching dynamic.. what would be of interest to that particular "box"?
 
After a time, I know I just got so tired of "teaching" (answering questions) and sharing or being watched during a session.  I just wanted to immerse myself in my own Domme/sub situation.  I was done talking..and was into doing.  My solution was simply to take my desire and go private.

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to Guilty1974)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Switches Non Entities - 7/21/2008 7:21:10 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I'm curious. I'm getting the feeling that when in a dom or sub discussion switches seem to forget anything they've learned while in the other orientation. Can you really do that? Can you have a discussion about control as a top while not listening to your sub side making comments in your brain? I just don't understand how one says "Oh this looks like an interesting group. Okay self, for now we are only dom/me" and not have other experiences come to mind.

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Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Switches Non Entities - 7/21/2008 2:40:22 PM   
TwoDommeDivas


Posts: 36
Joined: 7/7/2008
Status: offline 		You guys are funny.  So quick to criticize something you clearly don't understand.  What makes you so petty?

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Switches Non Entities - 7/21/2008 3:54:15 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TwoDommeDivas

You guys are funny.  So quick to criticize something you clearly don't understand.  What makes you so petty?


Oh I'll give it a shot.  Let's see... a switch switches depending on what the other person brings out in them? They have ominous and mysterious NEEDS that must be met.  While a switch does not like boxes, they do wish their other partner, for the moment, BE in THEIR box for the switch to express the opposite nature enjoyably.
 
Am I close? Do I understand yet? Do I get a cupie doll? LOL!
 
I find it odd that your comment reflects what you just don't understand from the other side. (I'll speak for myself here)  I don't hate switches... I find the dynamic lacking when it comes to MY satisfaction.  I feel no power exchange, no flow and they drain me.  Kinda like an energy vampire. Please don't take offense, I'm just sharing my reasons.  I started in a group that was 80% switches.  I know the beast. So carry on, enjoy yourselves but just don't expect 100% acceptance.. (here or anywhere in life)  otherwise you will become vain and bitter.

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to TwoDommeDivas)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Switches Non Entities - 7/21/2008 4:01:54 PM   
snowfalcon


Posts: 4
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

"one who is oriented towards personal intimate relationships based on an authority dynamic both having and not having authority."


If that definition is in place, what you say makes sense: switches shouldn't be in "only" groups.

However, not all switches are like that. In more "poly" situations a "switch" might be Dom/me to some and sub to others. To particular people their role will be consistent. Some switch "fluidly" and others are "situationally consistent" or "relationally consistent". So you wind up with switches like myself who feel they are "both".

And, yes, it confuses people.

Although I submit that if you look at the larger world ... we change roles a lot in our daily lives, but we're consistent in particular situations.

Snowfalcon



(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Switches Non Entities - 7/21/2008 9:09:54 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
However, since the suject was brought up by LA, I do have a question.  Say there is a submissive support group in your area, and you are a switch who is currently in a dynamic with a submissive.  If your submissive attends this group, as that person's Domme, how do you approach this?  As a switch, do you still say you are a submissive, too, and attend the group, or since you are the Dominant in that sub's eyes, do you give the submissive the space to gain what they need from the group, without you being there?

Let's just say just like kinky people like to "get away with" a lot, doing things without anyone taking notice, my partner and I "get away with" a lot at sub and dom only events.  We are BOTH switches so we BOTH get to go everywhere and trust me, we are not able to turn off who is dom or sub.  We do try to respect the energy of the group, but just as a dom and sub when they go to a vanilla only group of something do not suddenly try to become a vanilla personal, neither do we.

I really appreciate all these thoughts.  I think my focus is more "Doesn't the whole separation by orientation thing seem arbitrary and pointless because of the inclusion of switches?  If it's not arbitrary, how so?"

First, I wanted to thank you for answering My question.  While it would be difficult for Me to understand how a person would "turn that part off" to be in this mode or that mode, I can see how it would make sense to focus on a particular type of energy.

I don't tend to think that having some activities which are separated by orientation (or gender for that matter) are pointless.  There's a lot to be gained from a gathering that supports like minded people, no matter what that is based on.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Switches Non Entities - 7/21/2008 9:13:03 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TwoDommeDivas

You guys are funny.  So quick to criticize something you clearly don't understand.  What makes you so petty?


I'll bite. So how does curiosity and asking for clarification become petty criticism?

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to TwoDommeDivas)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Switches Non Entities - 7/21/2008 9:23:50 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		i do not know   lol but oh well I think really it is just up to each and every one of us to decide for ourseleves do not need a collage degree to figure that one out     commonsense thinking   ooops i am sorry i am not qualified for that observation rofl

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Switches Non Entities - 7/23/2008 10:24:14 AM   
pettingdragons


Posts: 421
Joined: 8/16/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong


Oh I'll give it a shot.  Let's see... a switch switches depending on what the other person brings out in them? 
No one ever dictated to me which i want to play with
They have ominous and mysterious NEEDS that must be met.  While a switch does not like boxes, they do wish their other partner, for the moment, BE in THEIR box for the switch to express the opposite nature enjoyably.
there are no "ominous or mysterious needs" The same could be said about Dominants or submissives......i used to have two partners...one that bottomed and one that topped...not one that did both.... 
I find it odd that your comment reflects what you just don't understand from the other side. (I'll speak for myself here)  I don't hate switches... I find the dynamic lacking when it comes to MY satisfaction.  I feel no power exchange, no flow and they drain me.  Kinda like an energy vampire. Please don't take offense, I'm just sharing my reasons.  I started in a group that was 80% switches.  I know the beast. So carry on, enjoy yourselves but just don't expect 100% acceptance.. (here or anywhere in life)  otherwise you will become vain and bitter.
Did you have a bad experience with a switch? it sounds like you are the one that is bitter. Are you a switch? so then how would you know what one feels or thinkings ..if i precived Dominants like that they would all be assholes...but they are indiviuals and are all different....
I am sorry your experience with switches was a bad one.....maybe some day you will met a nice one and loose some of your hatred....
 
I was a poly bisexual switch....with TPE while playing with said person...many years later...i find myself collared and in an intense TPE M/s relationship....and though its sometimes an internal struggle i find it fullfiling in different areas of life....am i still a switch ..yes...
 
Switches are not the only ones here who are not into TPE...there are many people on this site and in the groups W/we belong to that are not into and have a bad opinion of TPE....
 
just my 2 cents



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pettingdragons
"may the moon bless you with her light.......so you dont pee on your feet"

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Switches Non Entities - 7/23/2008 10:27:41 AM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TwoDommeDivas

Capricious, arbitrary, pointless, meaningless, exclusionary binary divisions.  Switches are not non-entities.  Switches are both dominant and submissive, alternately and sometimes simulatneously.

But humans are petty little fucks who love nothing more than getting into exclusive little circle jerks to prop up their own, easily shattered self-images.  Secure people, whether dominant or submissive or switch, have no such needs, and both recognize the spectum over the false dichotomy and enjoy the diversity of perspective and expression.

M. Dana


I think I might love you.


_____________________________

HBIC



(in reply to TwoDommeDivas)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Switches Non Entities - 7/23/2008 10:37:34 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I'm curious. I'm getting the feeling that when in a dom or sub discussion switches seem to forget anything they've learned while in the other orientation. Can you really do that? Can you have a discussion about control as a top while not listening to your sub side making comments in your brain? I just don't understand how one says "Oh this looks like an interesting group. Okay self, for now we are only dom/me" and not have other experiences come to mind.



"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function."....F. Scott Fitzgerald

"Take away paradox from the thinker, and you have a professor".... Soren Kierkegaard

To answer your question, yes, people do it all the time.


(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 40
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