Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Apes' Rights


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Apes' Rights Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Apes' Rights - 7/2/2008 1:08:42 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MusicalBoredom

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

I am an Avid Carnivore however 30 days about the guy who has to live with the Vegan for 30 days, I watched the way they treated the Cattle and I have to admit I wasn't happy about it. It doesn't make me want to stop eating meat it does however make me want to find another way of doing it that is less violent.

Steel


I am right there with you!



Sustainable Ag, Local Food Coops, and Sustainable Farming techniques.  Look into whether you have anything of that nature in your specific area, as many of the various Coops out there only allow producers who use non-commercial/cruelty free sustsainable methods of harvest when it comes to meat products.  You'll likely pay slightly more, but you'll know the methods are humane, sustainable, support your local community, and have exceptional quality.  Contact me on the other side if you want more info, as I have no desire to hijack the thread - but I do have contacts who can give information on how to get things of this nature going in an area that doesn't currently have anything like that.

_____________________________

Rhi
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Essential Scentsations

(in reply to MusicalBoredom)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Apes' Rights - 7/2/2008 1:14:42 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I'm all for treating animals with dignity and respect, and it's fine with me if governments pass laws to prevent cruelty to animals.

But the concept of animal RIGHTS gets into philosophical depths that most of the loud animal-rights advocates can't handle.  There are some serious philosophers who have defended a notion of animal rights.  Peter Singer is a good example: you may agree or disagree with him, but in any case you have to admit that he has deep and thoughtful arguments.  But most of the people who invoke the phrase "animal rights" don't bother to think that deeply.  Where do the rights come from?  Who is empowered to protect these rights, and how?  You have to answer those questions persuasively before I'm going to fall in line with "animal rights."

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Apes' Rights - 7/2/2008 2:46:46 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
I've always wondered where you stood on animal rights, given that one of your elephants is getting fucked.


(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Apes' Rights - 7/2/2008 3:03:45 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Whatcha think?  I think it's time. http://www.slate.com/id/2194568/?GT1=38001


Since you and I are both Apes, I'd suggest we treat Apes right.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Apes' Rights - 7/2/2008 3:41:43 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		I am 100% in favour of all animals being treated with dignity and respect, even humans.
Tho' its convention to eat some species thats not a reason to make what life they have unpleasant.

I think that with regard to education if a Gorilla was entered into the UK secondary education system he would probably do quite well.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Apes' Rights - 7/2/2008 4:13:23 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pixidustpet

if you've ever raised animals for family food....you know what dirty beasts they can be even with human support to keep their habitats clean.  apes might be smarter than the average snail, but they arent up to cleaning up after themselves. 
  


animals aren't inately dirty - humans put them in places where they can't move as they would by instinct - leaving an area when grazed out, to a fresh area. In other words, leaving when their excretment becomes bad. Pigs, one of the most maligned domestic animals, excrete in one area of their stys. I think given their drothers, they would spend their lives in a forest/meadow area rather than a barn/sty.  As would other animals.

just a small aside.

(in reply to pixidustpet)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Apes' Rights - 7/2/2008 4:29:45 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

I am an Avid Carnivore however 30 days about the guy who has to live with the Vegan for 30 days, I watched the way they treated the Cattle and I have to admit I wasn't happy about it. It doesn't make me want to stop eating meat it does however make me want to find another way of doing it that is less violent.

Steel


I saw that show.  For some reason, they always pick the dumbest fucker they can find to do the 30 day challenge.  He never once challenged that dimwit on the show who compared livestock raising to the Holocaust.  He was just a dipshit. 

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Apes' Rights - 7/2/2008 4:37:24 PM   
DomAviator


Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline 		If I had to live with a Vegan for 30 days I would turn cannibal. LOL I swear to God, the arguments that erupted when my ex-wife tried to ban red meat from our home for fear of mad cow disease... I was like what the fuck Laur, what is this shit??? You realize I am not a bunny right??? I swear if I was locked up with a Vegan for 30 days I would be eating them, with Farvre beans and a nice Chiante....

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Apes' Rights - 7/2/2008 5:44:53 PM   
Griswold


Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Whatcha think?  I think it's time. http://www.slate.com/id/2194568/?GT1=38001


I haven't read any of the follow on posts...so...mine is my own thinking...

I hope it passes.

I hope it eventually passes here as well.

I'm not of the variety that thinks they have human capacity...but they can think.

They can use tools.

They love.

And they pick their noses.

Just like you and me.

And the day they come to hate Oprah....that's when I'll ask that they can vote.


_____________________________

Never make someone a priority...who refuses to do any more than make you an option.

The man on the top of the mountain didn't just fall there.




(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Apes' Rights - 7/2/2008 5:52:35 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		I'm pretty sure they aren't too crazy about Rosie O'Donnell... that's a good start...

(in reply to Griswold)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Apes' Rights - 7/2/2008 6:21:51 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		While we are at it we might remember that a gorilla learnt how to sign language appropriately.
and an african grey parrot understood (he  died recently) the concept of  0. Pretty sophistocated stuff.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Apes' Rights - 7/2/2008 8:29:19 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Well, not exactly.  This article is quite informative:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/05/12/080512fa_fact_talbot?currentPage=all

A quote:

quote:

When the apes did combine words, the second word was often a nongrammatical intensifier, as in “open hurry.” And, when they produced a longer utterance, it tended to be a string of repetitions of the sort rarely encountered outside a Gertrude Stein poem. (A quote from Nim Chimpsky: “Give orange give me eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you.”)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

While we are at it we might remember that a gorilla learnt how to sign language appropriately.
and an african grey parrot understood (he  died recently) the concept of  0. Pretty sophistocated stuff.

(in reply to kiwisub12)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Apes' Rights - 7/2/2008 10:53:08 PM   
KLRDan


Posts: 30
Joined: 5/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach
While I'm not a creationist by any means, nor am I religious in the least bit (especially in the conventional sense of that word) - I do not consider myself to be in any way related to apes, nor have I ever considered myself such.  No more than I consider myself related to every Human on the planet.  Such relationship - on the off chance that it concievably exists - is so far removed from me biologically as to have utterly no significance.  You (generic) wanna consider yourself related to apes?  Feel free - but don't expect me to do more than snicker at you about it.  


If you want to consider your relationship to an ape, a human, or any other Earth life form insignificant, you're certainly free to do so--but that's no reason to claim the relationship doesn't exist. If you'd like to challenge evolution, please have a logical reason for doing so. You've stated emphatically that you believe you're unrelated to apes, but you've given no reason for that belief. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you just don't want to believe it. Prove me wrong.

In any case, what's relevant here is not whether apes are related to us. It's what level of morality they are capable of.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach
Morally significant Characteristics?  Morals are a learned perversion, which change with the context of time and culture.  What we, as modern 21st century western society consider to be "moral" would have been considered to be extremely Immoral even in our own earlier history, and there are things which we consider to be grossly immoral which were not only considered morally correct but Preferable to various other socieities.  Hell, there are things that we, as western society, consider "immoral" which Current middle eastern society considers that way and vise versa.  Show me where they are Ethically similar to humans, and this particular point might hold some weight.  Morals? Pppphhhhhttttt.


The point is that apes have been shown to possess a conscience and empathy on par with a human child. If that's true, then it would seem logical to afford them greater protection against captivity and cruelty than we would give most animals. Unless, of course, you think children themselves should get no such protection. Maybe you come from a society where it's considered okay to torture children. If that's the case, I say torture apes to your heart's content. As you yourself so eloquently pointed out (pppphhhhhhttttt), morality is relative. :)

_____________________________

In heaven, all the interesting people are missing.

--Nietzsche

(in reply to hizgeorgiapeach)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Apes' Rights - 7/3/2008 12:47:14 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		I am not a creationist in the christian sense of the word.  I seldom use the word God in any spiritual conversation.

But I will say that everything is a part of whatever vision the creator had, and we have no right to destroy it.  We can hunt for food, raise food animals, but to destroy something for pure pleasure or a trophy is wrong.

Genetically, a chimp has 98% of the same genome as humans.  The great apes all are within 85% at the very least.  That does make us all part of the same genetic evolutionary tree. (please note that one of my drill instructors in boot might have been 99.99999% ape, but I cant prove that)

So it is not a matter of animal rights, but a matter of do we have the right to destroy something that has no use for us in survival?  With every species that is driven into extinction, creation loses something.

It is something to consider, a law of protection, yes, but not of rights.


_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to KLRDan)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Apes' Rights - 7/3/2008 12:49:38 AM   
Racquelle


Posts: 600
Joined: 4/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961  I am not a creationist in the christian sense of the word. I seldom use the word God in any spiritual conversation.

But I will say that everything is a part of whatever vision the creator had, and we have no right to destroy it.


I like the way you put that - it's not that I feel animals and plants and the natural world has "rights" but that is is profoundly ungrateful of us to destroy it.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Apes' Rights - 7/3/2008 12:51:52 AM   
Racquelle


Posts: 600
Joined: 4/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

will they have gay rights?
  Now don't go talking like that.  You know the Gay agenda is first for same-gender couples to be able to marry, then to legalize marrying goats.

(in reply to faerytattoodgirl)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Apes' Rights - 7/3/2008 1:11:45 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		This article concerns laws in Spain not the US.  Are there current laws in Spain concerning cruelty and neglect that address animal welfare?  And how would these proposed changes differ?

"According to Reuters, the proposal would commit the government to ending involuntary use of apes in circuses, TV ads and dangerous experiments."

(quoted from the link)
 
If apes used in the entertainment industry and science are to no longer be confined, where would they live? Are there enough zoos or preserves available? Would they be able to survive in the wild and not be killed by poachers or loss of habitat or political strife and warfare?


(edited to add a phrase) 
 

 




< Message edited by Vendaval -- 7/3/2008 1:14:50 AM >

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Apes' Rights - 7/3/2008 1:17:57 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Trans-sexual jay-walking clothes-munching horney-goats!


quote:

ORIGINAL: Racquelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

will they have gay rights?

  Now don't go talking like that.  You know the Gay agenda is first for same-gender couples to be able to marry, then to legalize marrying goats.



_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to Racquelle)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Apes' Rights - 7/3/2008 1:22:03 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		 
Very well stated. 


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
But I will say that everything is a part of whatever vision the creator had, and we have no right to destroy it.  We can hunt for food, raise food animals, but to destroy something for pure pleasure or a trophy is wrong.

So it is not a matter of animal rights, but a matter of do we have the right to destroy something that has no use for us in survival?  With every species that is driven into extinction, creation loses something.

It is something to consider, a law of protection, yes, but not of rights.


_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Apes' Rights - 7/3/2008 1:39:46 AM   
DomAviator


Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

"According to Reuters, the proposal would commit the government to ending involuntary use of apes in circuses, TV ads and dangerous experiments."

(quoted from the link)
 


Thats easy the new legislation ends INVOLUNTARY use. So the apes who want to be in in the circus will have to volunteer by going to the Ringling Brothers recruiting station..... The ones in TV ads will see what kind of a deal their agents can work out for them , and as for the experiments - well they will just have to read, understand and sign an informed consent form LMFAO

(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Apes' Rights Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.143