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Obama bans lobbyist`s money for his campaign and the DNC - 6/21/2008 8:50:05 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		  That`s right,in a bold and refreshing move,Mr Obama is putting his money where his mouth is and banning lobbyist`s donations and the attached strings that come with them.

Meanwhile,McCain`s lobbyist infested campaign has an IOU for every corporate interest and big money donor in Washington DC.

I like the leadership he`s showing by banning the donations to the national party ,too.Shows guts and independence.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080605/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_money
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RE: Obama bans lobbyist`s money for his campaign and th... - 6/21/2008 9:47:52 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

As he gives up public funding for his campaign, Sen. Barack Obama is reaching out to new sources, including Washington insiders whose influence he has vowed to end.

Obama is now using lists of contributors to Democratic congressional chairmen, primarily lobbyists of both parties. One recipient of a letter signed by Obama is a Republican lobbyist who has contributed to senior Democratic Reps. John Dingell of Michigan and Charlie Rangel of New York, not out of ideological affinity but to keep their doors open.

"Together, we change the way business is done in Washington," said the Obama letter. "We can end the undue influence of special interests."



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RE: Obama bans lobbyist`s money for his campaign and th... - 6/22/2008 2:04:43 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Why don't they just arrest all the lobbyists and throw them in jail?
If that isn't corruption of our govt I don't know what is.

Owner, why are you singing Obama's praises?
Six months ago you couldn't stand the prick!
You were "Hillary" all the way.

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RE: Obama bans lobbyist`s money for his campaign and th... - 6/22/2008 3:45:07 AM   
atursvcMaam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Why don't they just arrest all the lobbyists and throw them in jail?
If that isn't corruption of our govt I don't know what is.

Owner, why are you singing Obama's praises?
Six months ago you couldn't stand the prick!
You were "Hillary" all the way.


Not enough patience for the 2012 Hillary "I told you so" tour.

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RE: Obama bans lobbyist`s money for his campaign and th... - 6/22/2008 7:20:42 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
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From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Why don't they just arrest all the lobbyists and throw them in jail?
If that isn't corruption of our govt I don't know what is.

Owner, why are you singing Obama's praises?
Six months ago you couldn't stand the prick!
You were "Hillary" all the way.


Not enough patience for the 2012 Hillary "I told you so" tour.


Can we get through the '08' I told you so tour,1st?lol

You guys have a lot of dead bodies,treachery and fuckups to explain and make up for.

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RE: Obama bans lobbyist`s money for his campaign and th... - 6/22/2008 7:54:07 AM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Why don't they just arrest all the lobbyists and throw them in jail?
If that isn't corruption of our govt I don't know what is.



For the simple reason that lobbying is not illegal.

Lobbying in its purest form involves researching an issue and then presenting the industry's viewpoint on that issue to a legislator.  It is the responsibility of each interest to make its stance known to legislators.  The idea that any group be banned from communicating its views to lawmakers violates freedom of speech, very strongly.

Note that doing the research and presenting the viewpoint is not a trivial thing.  It represents many hours of a skilled professional. 

The dividing line between a group spending money on this work and spending money to take the lawmaker to lunch to present it, is not sharply defined.  Nor is the line between buying a legislator lunch and getting him a gift of some sort.

And political people and groups need to be able to contribute to candidates that represent their views and should be expected to act accordingly once in office.  What's the dividing line between that and a quid pro quo?


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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Obama bans lobbyist`s money for his campaign and th... - 6/22/2008 7:54:22 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Why don't they just arrest all the lobbyists and throw them in jail? If that isn't corruption of our govt I don't know what is.

Owner, why are you singing Obama's praises? Six months ago you couldn't stand the prick!
You were "Hillary" all the way.


Not enough patience for the 2012 Hillary "I told you so" tour.
Can we get through the '08' I told you so tour,1st?lol

You guys have a lot of dead bodies,treachery and fuckups to explain and make up for.


Owner, I would have expected you to say something along these lines; "When the church hierarchy changes the pastor, the choir still has to sing." Honestly, I respect the hell out of your loyalty to the cause.

BTW - Who are the "you" in the "you guys" you reference? You know, if the only way to create a positive image requires a comparison to failure what message is that sending to the potential religious converts? If the Protestants only recruited by saying their version of hell was less painful than the Catholic version would that have been enough?

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RE: Obama bans lobbyist`s money for his campaign and th... - 6/22/2008 8:28:41 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		If the Protestants only recruited by saying their version of hell was less painful than the Catholic version would that have been enough?

I`m a Protestant and we do make that claim. 

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RE: Obama bans lobbyist`s money for his campaign and th... - 6/22/2008 11:11:14 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Why don't they just arrest all the lobbyists and throw them in jail?
If that isn't corruption of our govt I don't know what is.

Because the Constitution guarantees the right of the people to petition the government for redress of grievances--aka, lobbying.


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RE: Obama bans lobbyist`s money for his campaign and th... - 6/22/2008 12:44:38 PM   
popeye1250


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Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Why don't they just arrest all the lobbyists and throw them in jail?
If that isn't corruption of our govt I don't know what is.



For the simple reason that lobbying is not illegal.

Lobbying in its purest form involves researching an issue and then presenting the industry's viewpoint on that issue to a legislator.  It is the responsibility of each interest to make its stance known to legislators.  The idea that any group be banned from communicating its views to lawmakers violates freedom of speech, very strongly.

Note that doing the research and presenting the viewpoint is not a trivial thing.  It represents many hours of a skilled professional. 

The dividing line between a group spending money on this work and spending money to take the lawmaker to lunch to present it, is not sharply defined.  Nor is the line between buying a legislator lunch and getting him a gift of some sort.

And political people and groups need to be able to contribute to candidates that represent their views and should be expected to act accordingly once in office.  What's the dividing line between that and a quid pro quo?



Steven, what a bunch of bull tookie!
"Skilled proffessionals?"
Aren't the drug pushers who don't get caught also, "skilled proffessionals?"
Lobbyists can sit down at their kitchen table just like the rest of us and write a letter to their congressman or senator.
No-one is "preventing" them from communicating.
But, I usually don't include a check for $100k to my congressman's "campaign" when I write.
And, I can't remember the last time I played golf with my congressman.
I thought we were a country "Of The People" not "Of The Corporation."
Bill Gates got to address congress about an "unlimited number" of H1B visas.
When do I as an American Citizen get to address the congress?
(I'd love to do so!)
But, my net worth is a miniscual amount of Bill Gate's net worth.
It's not about *money* though, is it?

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 6/22/2008 12:48:42 PM >

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RE: Obama bans lobbyist`s money for his campaign and th... - 6/22/2008 12:59:11 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Why don't they just arrest all the lobbyists and throw them in jail?
If that isn't corruption of our govt I don't know what is.

Because the Constitution guarantees the right of the people to petition the government for redress of grievances--aka, lobbying.



You are correct Sir!
But where in the Constitution does it say that a *Corporate Lobbyist* can "redress" the govt on behalf of a *foreign country* to get that foreign country U.S. Taxpayer Dollars in "foreign aid" in the expectation of making a "commission" from whatever U.S. Taxpayer Dollars they can get and bribing congressmen and senators with "donations" to their campaigns or the lack thereof?
I don't know what they call it in Texas but in New Hampshire we called that "corruption" and "graft".
You don't need a gun to be a theif.


< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 6/22/2008 1:01:40 PM >

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RE: Obama bans lobbyist`s money for his campaign and th... - 6/22/2008 1:31:40 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

But where in the Constitution does it say that a *Corporate Lobbyist* can "redress" the govt on behalf of a *foreign country* to get that foreign country U.S. Taxpayer Dollars in "foreign aid" in the expectation of making a "commission" from whatever U.S. Taxpayer Dollars they can get and bribing congressmen and senators with "donations" to their campaigns or the lack thereof?

It's all one and the same, popeye.

The First Amendment is fairly explicit on the point:
quote:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Demonizing lobbyists will not alter the sobering reality that, under the Constitution, all people are allowed to petition the government directly on any matter they desire.  This includes lobbyists.

If a lobbyist's donation to a campaign is bribery, why is a "non-lobbyist's" donation not bribery?  Both are made to support candidates that support specific causes and agendas.  Both are made to further specific legislative objectives.  The mere act of donating to a campaign in and of itself must not be deemed bribery, unless you are prepared to outlaw ALL donations to political campaigns.

I will agree that Congress does not do nearly enough to police the patterns of "gift giving" that many who lobby before Congress engage in.  But the evil there lies not in the lobbyist for doing what is presumptively legal; the evil lies in Congress for not closing the door to such things and making the gifts presumptively illegal.  Congress could do that in a single day if it had the desire.  It hasn't.

< Message edited by celticlord2112 -- 6/22/2008 1:32:03 PM >

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RE: Obama bans lobbyist`s money for his campaign and th... - 6/22/2008 4:03:35 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

But where in the Constitution does it say that a *Corporate Lobbyist* can "redress" the govt on behalf of a *foreign country* to get that foreign country U.S. Taxpayer Dollars in "foreign aid" in the expectation of making a "commission" from whatever U.S. Taxpayer Dollars they can get and bribing congressmen and senators with "donations" to their campaigns or the lack thereof?

It's all one and the same, popeye.

The First Amendment is fairly explicit on the point:
quote:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Demonizing lobbyists will not alter the sobering reality that, under the Constitution, all people are allowed to petition the government directly on any matter they desire.  This includes lobbyists.

If a lobbyist's donation to a campaign is bribery, why is a "non-lobbyist's" donation not bribery?  Both are made to support candidates that support specific causes and agendas.  Both are made to further specific legislative objectives.  The mere act of donating to a campaign in and of itself must not be deemed bribery, unless you are prepared to outlaw ALL donations to political campaigns.

I will agree that Congress does not do nearly enough to police the patterns of "gift giving" that many who lobby before Congress engage in.  But the evil there lies not in the lobbyist for doing what is presumptively legal; the evil lies in Congress for not closing the door to such things and making the gifts presumptively illegal.  Congress could do that in a single day if it had the desire.  It hasn't.


Celtic, I think you just answered your own question.
If a state senator in New Hampshire took money for his vote he or she would end up in the state prison in Concord and there are a few still in there for doing just that involving construction companies.
Why should Senator Judd Gregg or John Sununu get a "pass" on doing the very same thing?
If a politician "takes money" in exchange for his vote that's against the law.
It's a crime.
Like I said, no-one is "preventing" *anyone* from writing a letter or calling or e-mailing their representatives in government.
To call what is going on in Washington now "petitioning government for a redress in greivances" is like comparing.....what's that saying you guys have in Texas about lipstick and pigs?

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RE: Obama bans lobbyist`s money for his campaign and th... - 6/22/2008 4:14:09 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

To call what is going on in Washington now "petitioning government for a redress in greivances"

Legally speaking, that is exactly what lobbying is.  So long as it does not involve bribery or otherwise illegal conduct, there is nothing about lobbying that is not Constitutionally protected speech.

I won't fault lobbyists for doing things that are legal when Congress refuses to make those actions illegal.  It would be a simple piece of legislation to write to declare any gift given a congressman to be a bribe.  It would be a simple matter for Congress to mandate that Congressmen not take trips at a taxpayer's expense.  These would be simple laws; these would be Constitutional laws.

The evil is not the lobbyists, but the Congressmen that expect lobbying to involve a kissing of the ring a la Don Corleone.




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RE: Obama bans lobbyist`s money for his campaign and th... - 6/22/2008 4:23:41 PM   
popeye1250


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Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

To call what is going on in Washington now "petitioning government for a redress in greivances"

Legally speaking, that is exactly what lobbying is.  So long as it does not involve bribery or otherwise illegal conduct, there is nothing about lobbying that is not Constitutionally protected speech.

I won't fault lobbyists for doing things that are legal when Congress refuses to make those actions illegal.  It would be a simple piece of legislation to write to declare any gift given a congressman to be a bribe.  It would be a simple matter for Congress to mandate that Congressmen not take trips at a taxpayer's expense.  These would be simple laws; these would be Constitutional laws.

The evil is not the lobbyists, but the Congressmen that expect lobbying to involve a kissing of the ring a la Don Corleone.





Celtic, we don't "need" anymore laws.
Like KittinSol said the other week we need to "enforce *all* laws."
Bribing public officials is against the law.
So, if you bribe a pol to vote your way on the local or state level that's a crime but if you do it on the federal level it's not a crime?
Maybe the pinkie ring guys who get local and state contracts should start protesting that they are "lobbyists."
Right.
"I didn't take the money but I took the money."

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 6/22/2008 4:25:50 PM >

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RE: Obama bans lobbyist`s money for his campaign and th... - 6/22/2008 4:32:54 PM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
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It would be anti-democratic to ban lobbyists.Same with any other interest groups,special interest groups,PACs,etc.

One man`s ceiling ,is another man`s floor.I want NOW,the unions,the Sierra Club and the like to have a say in Washington.And corporate America ,the NRA,and Pat Robertson are going to have their say.

Banning gifts and money donations from lobbyists isn`t anti-democratic,though.

Regulating them and making a even/equal/fair playing field for all of them would be a great idea.
                      

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RE: Obama bans lobbyist`s money for his campaign and th... - 6/22/2008 4:49:47 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Banning gifts and money donations from lobbyists isn`t anti-democratic,though.

Regulating them and making a even/equal/fair playing field for all of them would be a great idea.

Banning gifts, yes.  Donations to campaigns, only if ALL donations were banned.

The one area I would like to see public financing is in political contests.  Take money off the table completely.  Give each candidate for office a set budget for a primary campaign, and a set budget for a general election.  Let them choose how/when/where to spend their dollars, but make it a government grant upon filing for candidacy.

I'd even be willing to pay a special "elections tax" to make that happen.


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RE: Obama bans lobbyist`s money for his campaign and th... - 6/22/2008 5:05:12 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Banning gifts and money donations from lobbyists isn`t anti-democratic,though.

Regulating them and making a even/equal/fair playing field for all of them would be a great idea.

Banning gifts, yes.  Donations to campaigns, only if ALL donations were banned.

The one area I would like to see public financing is in political contests.  Take money off the table completely.  Give each candidate for office a set budget for a primary campaign, and a set budget for a general election.  Let them choose how/when/where to spend their dollars, but make it a government grant upon filing for candidacy.

I'd even be willing to pay a special "elections tax" to make that happen.



"The one area I would like to see public financing is in political contests.  Take money off the table completely."

Great idea,and it`s done(and works) in a few cities in the US.

If the public doesn`t pay for campaigns,corporate America will,as it does now.

Take out the money influence and give each candidate the same amount of air time each.Let the chips fall where they may.

Watch it tho,people are going to call you a socialists/communist for making such a suggestion.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 6/22/2008 5:07:30 PM >

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RE: Obama bans lobbyist`s money for his campaign and th... - 6/22/2008 5:08:54 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Take out the money influence and give each candidate the same amount of air time each.Let the chips fall where they may.

Watch it tho,people are going to call you a socialists/communist for making such a suggestion.

I've been called worse....


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RE: Obama bans lobbyist`s money for his campaign and th... - 6/22/2008 5:23:02 PM   
kessbm45lilgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Why don't they just arrest all the lobbyists and throw them in jail?
If that isn't corruption of our govt I don't know what is.




They tried that can we say "Libby" and he got a commuted sentence and a pardon.

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