RE: The Submissive and The Courtesan (Full Version)

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pinksugarsub -> RE: The Submissive and The Courtesan (6/19/2008 5:45:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TysGalilah

 
Pink
 
    Thanks for posting those !!
  some really good ones..
 
“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.” Anais Nin
    Always loved that quote...

"Do not look to my neck for a collar for you will not find one, but if you look to my heart you will see who owns me."

“And He said: Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding. Even as the stone of the fruit must break, that it’s heart may stand in the sun, so you must know pain.”  Kahlil Gibran


Yea, A/anyone who clicks on the link will agree with you i think, TysGalilah. 
 
i used the Anais Nin quote as an addition to my sig line. i just love her work.
 
pinksugarsub




pinksugarsub -> RE: The Submissive and The Courtesan (6/19/2008 5:54:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

a fairly good warning for those to think twice about mistreating me.

i will "slice, dice and vivisect" your throat apart with my words and i have done it before.


i quite agree with you, sambamanslilgirl.
 
i have a mouth like a switchblade -- i vividly remember some of the things i've said in the past when provoked.
 
Nowadays, i try to 'pause and reflect' before speaking -- letting my anger cool, trying to see the O/other P/person's POV, etc. 
 
i guess i'm mellowing out in my 'dotage', LMAO.
 
However, f**k with my UM in any serious way -- or violate one the rules on my 'List of Intolerables' -- and out comes the switchblade mouth again, he he.
 
pinksugarsub  [sm=whisper.gif]

P.S. My 'List of Intolerables' was given in the following post, if yr curious:
 
http://www.collarchat.com/m_406387/mpage_1/key_List%252CIntolerables/tm.htm#406387
 
P.P.S.  Man, i miss the avatar on that post; i cannot find it anymore *sighs*.
 




pinksugarsub -> RE: The Submissive and The Courtesan (6/19/2008 6:03:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkVictory


A better model for me would be the sassanid harem.  The girls were terrified and enslaved victims that were slowly trained and / or weeded out to be compliant, pleasing, and utterly servile.  That's fucking amore, baby.



i hadda know -- what is a 'sassanid harem'?
 
So i used my Google-Fu:
 
http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/ch22c.htm
 
Not really helpful -- so can You please explain DarkVictory?  Ancient erotic stories fascinate me.
 
Thank You, Sir.
 
pinksugarsub
 




pinksugarsub -> RE: The Submissive and The Courtesan (6/19/2008 6:17:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

Pink you do that a lot, find a favourable quote from random sources, you know that for almost any argument you can find articles written to prove any argument?


Actually colouredin, wat happened was this:
 
Last night, as i was whiling away the wee hours, 'myspace' went down and i couldn't work on my page <insert pretty pout here, lol>. i don't keep a 'personal journal' type blog on the 'net, and i wasn't feeling creative enough to write another erotic story of my own.

So, instead, i worked on my journal entries here on CollarMe.  i wrote a new one on 'Ancient Erotic Stories'.  i found the link while working on that entry, and i liked that particular quote -- thought it would make a good Op.
 
i dunno why you'd imply i'm often careless in choosing links to support 'factoids' in my posts.  i try hard to use reliable sources -- original materials if i can find them -- because i feel that's important.  There is a lot of nonsence on the 'net presented by Who Knows as 'fact'.
 
But i digress; the quote in the Op was intended to prompt P/pl to post what i expected would be highly personal imterpretations of its meaning. 
 
Just look at the difference between how i saw it and how thetammyjo saw it, for example.  i find this to be a stimulating type of dialogue.
 
Hope that clarifies things a bit, miss.

pinksugarsub




TwoNYCDommes -> RE: The Submissive and The Courtesan (6/19/2008 7:15:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
There are many good comparisons to be made in courtesans when it comes to serving beautifully, sexually, gracefully, intelligently- except for the fact that all good courtesans know they must ALWAYS be in control, even as they so subtly convince the buyer otherwise.


Agreed.

Some courtesans may have been submissives, while others were probably more like pro-dommes, still others switches, and many were probably vanilla.

(On the subject of kinky courtesans, has anyone seen the film Dangerous Beauty, based on the life of Veronica Franco?)




Mercnbeth -> RE: The Submissive and The Courtesan (6/19/2008 7:31:42 AM)

quote:

What are Y/your thoughts?

 
this slave wouldn't agree with the statement because she doesn't see the correlation between a fancy term for prostitute/potential assassin and a "good" submissive.
 
"mistreatment" of a prostitute/courtesan includes not paying them.
 
this slave doesn't submit in exchange for $$$ and if she did, wouldn't be driven to slice anyone's throat open with a knife or her words if she didn't get paid...so therefore, would make a terrible courtesan/prostitute...but a great SLUT!!!




gypsygrl -> RE: The Submissive and The Courtesan (6/19/2008 7:39:05 AM)

I read the quote and it made me laugh out loud.

It does capture something about me in my darker moments.  Fortunately, they're only moments, and it takes a lot longer than some moments to slit a person's throat.

I'm idling in a dark moment right now.  But, that's probably obvious.

And, yeah, the slitting the throat part is a metaphor.  I took it as a comment on the limits of loyalty and committment.  "Mistreatment" nullifies any commitment, implied or otherwise. 




charlotteS -> RE: The Submissive and The Courtesan (6/19/2008 8:41:35 AM)

I see that statement as someone who is more manipulative than submissive.  I'll give you what you want so long as I get what I want in return.  I mean isn't a courtesan playing a role in order to get something from the man? 

I do think a submissive has to be able to stand up for themselves but the way that statement reads to me is that they're almost looking for an opportunity to bite back.

charlotte




Dnomyar -> RE: The Submissive and The Courtesan (6/19/2008 8:44:55 AM)

 If you dont want to be beheaded then put your head on his lap. (Yoda)




DarkVictory -> RE: The Submissive and The Courtesan (6/19/2008 8:58:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub

i hadda know -- what is a 'sassanid harem'?
 
So i used my Google-Fu:
 
http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/ch22c.htm
 
Not really helpful -- so can You please explain DarkVictory?  Ancient erotic stories fascinate me.
 
Thank You, Sir.
 
pinksugarsub
 


From wikipedia:
quote:

ORIGINAL: WikiPedia

The Sassanid Empire or Sassanid Persian Empire or Sassanian Dynasty (Persian: ساسانیان [sɒsɒnijɒn]) is the name used for the third Iranian dynasty and the second Persian Empire (226–651).[5] The Sassanid dynasty was founded by Ardashir I after defeating the last Parthian (Arsacid) king, Artabanus IV (Persian: اردوان Ardavan) and ended when the last Sassanid Shahanshah (King of Kings), Yazdegerd III (632–651), lost a 14-year struggle to drive out the early Arab Caliphate, the first of the Islamic empires. The Sassanid Empire's traditional territory encompassed all of today's Iran, Iraq, Armenia, Afghanistan, eastern parts of Turkey, and parts of Syria, Pakistan, Caucasia, Central Asia and Arabia. The Sassanids called their empire Eranshahr "Dominion of the Aryans (Iranians))". The Sassanid era, encompassing the length of the Late Antiquity period, is considered to be one of Iran's most important and influential historical periods. In many ways the Sassanid period witnessed the highest achievement of Persian civilization, and constituted the last great Iranian Empire before the Muslim conquest and adoption of Islam.[citation needed] Persia influenced Roman civilization considerably during the Sassanids' times,[6] and the Romans reserved for the Sassanid Persians alone the status of equals, exemplified in the letters written by the Roman Emperor to the Persian Shahanshah, which were addressed to "my brother."[citation needed] Their cultural influence extended far beyond the empire's territorial borders, reaching as far as Western Europe,[7] Africa,[8] China and India[9] and played a prominent role in the formation of both European and Asiatic medieval art.[10] This influence carried forward to the early Islamic world with the Muslim conquest of Iran, especially the dynasty's unique, aristocratic culture.[11] Zarinkoob even goes to the extent of claiming that much of what later became known as Islamic culture, architecture, writing and other skills was borrowed mainly from the Sassanid Persians and propagated throughout the broader Muslim world, although this assertion has not been corroborated by other scholars


In many ways, 'our' view of the large, all female harem comes from our exposure to Islam during the reconquista and the crusades.  The Islamic tradition of the harem was NOT a part of early Islam, but came from their later exposure to the remnants of the decadent Sassanid empire.  It is there, in the late Sassanid period of Persian empire that we would find the tattooed, belled, perfumed, slave girl being trained by the castrated sycophants of the court in sexual skills and courteous servile demeanour.




gypsygrl -> RE: The Submissive and The Courtesan (6/19/2008 9:05:41 AM)

quote:

I see that statement as someone who is more manipulative than submissive.  I'll give you what you want so long as I get what I want in return.


I'm not sure if you're replying to me specifically, or just in general.  But...

Taking the quote cited, mistreatment is a given.  I see no reason to read manipulation into it. 

quote:

that statement reads to me is that they're almost looking for an opportunity to bite back


But, yeah, the quote made me laugh because it resonated with me.  Biting back is a dark temptation, though I've passed up nearly every opportunity to do so.  But, I'd rather not be tempted that way.  Cause, like, ya know, some day I might give in to temptation and deliver myself unto evil, if you know what I mean...

The way it works for me is basically that I'm not so perfectly at ease with my submission that I won't bite back if mistreated.  A better submissive might be able to withstand such mistreatment, and come to some kind of terms with it eventually achieving a zen-like state but I'm not that good.  I understand the theory, but in practice, I fall short.  And, I make no promises there.




DesFIP -> RE: The Submissive and The Courtesan (6/19/2008 9:11:33 AM)

The kind of courtesans that slit your throat are not Victorian England, but Renaissance Italy. Lucretia Borgia types but bottoms.

My problem with most of those quotes is that they exalt sadism and equate sadism to dominance. Didn't read them all but the one I read that did mention bondage uses the word terror. Since fear play, pain, cruelty are not what he does, whether I'm bound or not, I don't relate to most of this.

But I will confess I'm wondering about DarkVictory's reading comprehension skills since he read GreedyTOP to mean bottom.




rubberpet -> RE: The Submissive and The Courtesan (6/19/2008 10:04:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: rubberpet

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub

quote:

“I feel a good submissive should be like an Italian Courtesan of the middle Ages. Loyal, obedient, subservient, and if you mistreat them they slit your throat before you have a chance to apologize."

 
http://www.asknenc.org/ws/information/quotes.html
 
i found this quote very provocative.
 
What are Y/your thoughts?
 
pinksugarsub  [sm=cute.gif]


Hey, pinksugarsub...looks like you found a quote that describes me to a "T".  I don't have to worry about using the second part of it, though.  Mistress may hurt me, She may use and abuse me for Her own pleasure and satisfaction, She may leave bite marks on me, She may encase me in multiple layers of tight rubber and treat me badly, but She'd never mistreat Her Pikachu!  [:D] 


rubberpet, my congratulations on yr collar.  Sounds like yr very happy -- i envy you.
 
i took the 'throat sliting' phrase as a metaphor.  But W/who knows?  i've been told S/some P/pl are into very extreme fetishes and kinks.
 
i wish you many years of continued happiness in yr collar.
 
pinksugarsub


Thank you so much, pinky!!!  This is my second collaring, but I have a very good feeling this is my last. [;)]  My first collaring lasted almost five years and it was and will always be special to me.  Being collared by Mistress has made me feel so complete, though.  She treats me better than I've ever been treated before, so I don't have to worry about being mistreated and slitting anyone's throat.  She loves Her Pikachu!!! [:)]  We do have some strange and unusual fetishes and kinks, though...especially our lust for rubber and breath play!




ImpGrrl -> RE: The Submissive and The Courtesan (6/22/2008 9:09:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkVictory
A better model for me would be the sassanid harem.  The girls were terrified and enslaved victims that were slowly trained and / or weeded out to be compliant, pleasing, and utterly servile.  That's fucking amore, baby.


Yeah, because a relationship based on fear and brainwashing is *totally* what we're all looking for.




ImpGrrl -> RE: The Submissive and The Courtesan (6/22/2008 9:14:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub

i'd a lot rather be given 'courtesan' as a pet name by my Dom than the much more commonplace 'slut'.
and their historical legacy


Well sure, but "courtesan" implies mastery, or at least training, in a bunch of skill-sets, while "slut" just implies being indiscriminately wanton.




NumberSix -> RE: The Submissive and The Courtesan (6/22/2008 9:23:47 AM)

come suck, courtesan-----


Hmmmmmmmmm... Ya, I believe I can hang with that.

6




xxblushesxx -> RE: The Submissive and The Courtesan (6/22/2008 9:27:55 AM)

HM and I both liked the quote.

Yes, it *could* describe me at certain points...




persephonee -> RE: The Submissive and The Courtesan (6/22/2008 9:36:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

If you dont want to be beheaded then put your head on his lap. (Yoda)


Hehe...when did Yoda say that.....




Level -> RE: The Submissive and The Courtesan (6/22/2008 11:10:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub

quote:

“I feel a good submissive should be like an Italian Courtesan of the middle Ages. Loyal, obedient, subservient, and if you mistreat them they slit your throat before you have a chance to apologize."

 
http://www.asknenc.org/ws/information/quotes.html
 
i found this quote very provocative.
 
What are Y/your thoughts?
 
pinksugarsub  [sm=cute.gif]


Any dictionary with that as the primary definition of a submissive (certainly a good one) should be used to prop up the barn door, and for nothing more.




ExSteelAgain -> RE: The Submissive and The Courtesan (6/22/2008 11:44:03 AM)

I found it to be an interesting point although I wouldn't have gone after the courtesean. The one who is manipulating for her own gain strikes me as a modern day something or another that I can't really own.

For my personal turn-on, I want a sub whom I can own emotionally and who will do things because she can't help it. I don't want to be paying in any fashion for a submissive and the courteseans appeared to have been paid and angry when the check didn't arrive on time.




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