If you want something done right... (Full Version)

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DominantJenny -> If you want something done right... (6/17/2008 2:03:47 PM)

This topic came up as a side point in another thread, and I think merits its own discussion. As the saying goes, if you want something done right, do it yourself. I know that I find myself much less stressed by many tasks if I DO do them myself; they get done the way I want them done (and I don't have to spend hours or days explaining and/or redoing tasks to teach someone else) and I am not annoyed by waiting for the time it takes someone else to do the task, which always seems infinitely longer than when I do it myself, even if it objectively takes the exact same amount of time.
That said, I'm a dominant. I enjoy being served, and served well.
I think that it mostly comes down to individual preferences on how one balances these two somewhat incongruous things. In my case, if I don't particularly care how a task is done, I can hand it off. (I have no issues with his taking out the trash.) If I have strong opinions about a task (say, putting away the laundry), I find it's usually better to do it myself.
As a submissive, do you feel like a failure when your dominant insists on doing certain things him/herself? How much service becomes TOO much, then, where you lose respect for your dominant because now you see them as simply lazy?
As a dominant, where do you draw the line? How much service is too much? How much effort are you willing to put in to teaching your submissive to do things as you prefer and do you resent that effort at all? Do you think it realistic to expect the submissive to learn without being taught?

Finally, in general, how does one reconcile being a highly independent individual with having someone on whom, on some level, you must become dependent over time?



CalifChick -> RE: If you want something done right... (6/17/2008 2:07:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantJenny

As a submissive, do you feel like a failure when your dominant insists on doing certain things him/herself?


If it was something I could do (like putting away laundry) I would think he thought I was too stupid to do it correctly, or too stupid to learn how to do it correctly.  Not a good thing for me.

If it was something I cannot do (change the a/c filter because it is on the ceiling and I have a hard time with my arms straight above my head), then it wouldn't phase me.

Cali



azropedntied -> RE: If you want something done right... (6/17/2008 2:34:27 PM)

There is a point of having a task done and being overly picky , Yes i vacumed , yes it is  cleaned , no the  vacume markes are not 100% in line and even . Yet if your doing it as a dynamic for correction i can find fault in every task performed  however minor .But do you really want to just beat down and belittle , it takes time  for automatic service  to be performed .Knowing what needs done  without asking  is great  but service is two a two way street , a give and take .Sure you can rule with a iron first  but how fast will that get old  on both sides ? " just some thoughts "..



DominantJenny -> RE: If you want something done right... (6/17/2008 2:52:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

If it was something I could do (like putting away laundry) I would think he thought I was too stupid to do it correctly, or too stupid to learn how to do it correctly.  Not a good thing for me.


What if you didn't see any real difference in his way versus your way? Both get the job done, but he has a strong attachment to this method that does not come at all naturally to you. How do you handle that?



cailinbeag -> RE: If you want something done right... (6/17/2008 3:25:47 PM)

I absolutely do not feel like a failure if Daddy insists on doing some things for himself. I don't take it personally - he gives me the tasks he feels comfortable with handing over, and as his trust in my abilities grows, so does my list of responsibilities. To force it would be counterproductive. In an attempt to be "useful", I would actually be making work for him by having him find me something to do. Now, I can let him know that I'm eager to take on more duties, but after that's voiced, it's really up to him and sometimes the best thing I can do to help is to stay out of the way.

But then, we live together. We have pretty defined roles that are based on what we're good at and what fufills (sp?) us and eachother. I'm on my feet from 7:30am until 11:00pm or whenever we fall into bed. We're busy people and our life gives me lots of opportunity to contribute. If I feel like it doesn't, I'm either not paying attention or I'm not doing my job. On that note, I'm lucky in that there's no such thing as too much service in our house. First of all, Daddy is fantastic about being appreciative. I never feel taken for granted. Second, he wants to do for me as much as I want to do for him. It's the coolest competition ever. But mostly, it's that we recognize that it's okay to do things for eachother that we could do for ourselves. I don't need his help to cross the street, but I feel protected and loved when he takes my hand and is the first to walk off of the curb. He can pour his own coffee just fine, but he loves the ritual of my bringing it to him.

To answer your last question, reconciling my independance with my becoming dependant is easy. I just remind myself how good it feels when I'm needed.



CalifChick -> RE: If you want something done right... (6/17/2008 3:27:33 PM)

Jenny - Can you give me another example? Because the towel example would really make me feel stupid, if I couldn't grasp his way of putting towels in the closet.

Cali



chiaThePet -> RE: If you want something done right... (6/17/2008 3:32:04 PM)

As long as my boxers meet some fabric softener along the way, I'm in.

Whatever makes you happy.

chia* (the pet)



softpjOS -> RE: If you want something done right... (6/17/2008 3:39:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantJenny

As a submissive, do you feel like a failure when your dominant insists on doing certain things him/herself?

For me, it would depend entirely on the task and why She insisted on doing it Herself.  For instance, if it's something i've failed to do to Her specifications in the past, it would serve as a reminder of a *failure* on my part.  And i would work on learning how to do it even if it was no longer expected of me, "just in case".  Over the years i've learned to accept there are simply things She will never expect/want/ask me to do such as cooking on the grill.  That is HER department, always will be! lol

How much service becomes TOO much, then, where you lose respect for your dominant because now you see them as simply lazy? 

At no time do i see Her as lazy in any way.  She is always working on something/doing for others.  My only frustration in serving Her comes in the form of *others*.  She is so willing to do for others that She frequently over extends Herself and i find myself picking up tasks that are not for Her directly, but for the *others* in Her life that tend to take advantage.  Keeping myself focused on the task being for HER, to help HER and not so much for *them* sometimes requires more effort then the task itself.  Occasionally it also requires a ball gag and asprin. lol



As a dominant, where do you draw the line? How much service is too much? How much effort are you willing to put in to teaching your submissive to do things as you prefer and do you resent that effort at all?

I can't answer this from the Dominant perspective but i will say that Mistress has been extremely patient in teaching me Her preferences and only once in the years we've been together have i heard "butt out pj, I'm capable of handling this Myself" [8|]


Do you think it realistic to expect the submissive to learn without being taught?

That would depend entirely on the relationship dynamic and task in question.  Someone that serves "occasionally" wouldn't really have the oppurtunity to observe and attempt to learn without direction.  Those in a 24/7 relationship could learn some things by careful observation and keeping notes. 


Finally, in general, how does one reconcile being a highly independent individual with having someone on whom, on some level, you must become dependent over time?

I believe that has been one of the  hardest things for Mistress to come to terms with.  She is an extremely independant person and to feel like She is *dependent* on anyone just ruffles Her feathers to no end.  It's taken a very long time for Her to accept that She can trust me to take care of things in a (timely) manner that She approves of. 
 
I think what made Her finally relax and accept that She can indeed count on me in all ways was when She was hospitalized and i moved into Her house and *took over* in Her absence.  Even though She wasn't *there*, She was still in complete control of everything going on because i kept Her informed and it was Her wishes/decisions that i was following.  For instance, She had an IEP meeting at the school; i reminded Her of it, offered to A) reschedule or B) attend in Her place.  She decided to send me knowing i was fully informed of Her wishes/expected outcome. 
 
It all comes down to a matter of time to build the trust needed. 




metalmiss -> RE: If you want something done right... (6/17/2008 3:50:57 PM)

As a slave, i have been given certain tasks, chores and responsibilities within His home and i content myself in that. But i do not think less of myself, or feel like a failure if my Master sees me busy with another task and decides to deal with some of it Himself.
It is not something that happens often, His style of living is minimalist and easy to keep tidy & clean. If there is a task i was incapable of doing well, i have no hesitation in asking for His help.
There is very little if anything in His home which isn't done by me 99% of the time. But that doesn't mean i consider Him to be lazy, quite the opposite infact. Though i do understand what you are saying because i have had that feeling in a previous relationship. There is a difference here, in that my utter submission in serving Him as i do does not make Him complacent, He does not take me for granted in anything. Instead He takes an active interest in even the smallest things i do for Him. Pleasing Him pleases me.. Even when it pleases Him that i stop to ask for His help instead of struggling on regardless.



pixidustpet -> RE: If you want something done right... (6/17/2008 4:12:34 PM)

timely subject.  with Daddy, all i have had to do is BE, and he's content.  but we have/had a long distance relationship, which is not what you're talking about, i think.

TheEngineer and i have been talking.  he's had a bachelor apartment for years now, and never had a submissive live in with him.  so this is going to be adjustments on both sides.  we've discussed how to deal with differing opinions, and differing ways of doing things, and its just going to have to be a work in progress for a while.

his biggest stress at the moment is that we're going to get home on sunday, and he's going to be sent overseas for a could-be-two-weeks business trip on wednesday or thursday.  i quietly reminded him that i'm a former military brat...that i dont LIKE this, but i'll cope with it.  and that every time he gets sent overseas, i will continue to cope.  if nothing else, i'd drive the 45 minutes and go see my mama. 

if i'm not doing things to his satisfaction?  tell me the "correct" way to do things, and i'll get it done to his satisfaction.  that's part of my duties, to be pleasing to him and to leave him more time to take care of other things. 

kitten



Stusmobile -> RE: If you want something done right... (6/17/2008 4:22:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantJenny
*snipped*

As a dominant, where do you draw the line? How much service is too much? How much effort are you willing to put in to teaching your submissive to do things as you prefer and do you resent that effort at all? Do you think it realistic to expect the submissive to learn without being taught?

Finally, in general, how does one reconcile being a highly independent individual with having someone on whom, on some level, you must become dependent over time?


There are shared chores around the home, some are hers, some are mine, some whoever is closest or home first does. Some of the chores I choose to do are for me, not as a slight to her because I know she can do them and do them as well as I can, but they are mine because I enjoy them. Working on the vehicles, setting the sound system up in the home, building the computers, all mine because that is actually relaxing to me. There are chores and jobs that are hers, social secretary, ironing (which I detest), grooming the dog ... all things of which I am as capable as her of doing but which I choose not to.

There are also those which we share or which fit our schedules, cooking is shared, we both enjoy it, do it together and even cook for each other. Laundry, if I am home first and the laundry basket is full, I'm perfectly able to sort it and load the washer or the dryer, if she is there first then she does it. For us it is a basic respect for each other and that persons time and their workload etc. If she is busting her ass doing long hours at work or has other commitments then I'll step in and do more, if I'm the one pulling 80 hour weeks then I get to come home, shower and hit the couch.

The teaching and learning is just a natural extension of us and our relationship. There isn't really a teaching time per se, but each of us learns the others preferences as we learn more about each other. Watching, listening, asking and talking, all go into that process ... how does she prefer her cokes ? in the can or in a glass. Which side of my desk do I like my coffee, socks paired or just tossed into the drawer. It's those smaller things that flesh out the relationship more than any set of rules that we have established.

Knowing which areas to keep away from is another, I wouldn't dream of telling her how to crotchet, how to arrange her yarns or set her workspace up ..... and she knows my desk is sacrosanct and I'll clean it when it looks like a war zone. Again there is an almost natural division of labour on some things ... yard work springs to mind. I like a nice looking yard, but I have toxic fingers when it comes to flowers, so thats her part, choosing, planting and looking after them, me, I'll build the beds, do the manual labour and the watering etc.

The dependency issue really doesn't raise it's head. We are a couple, albeit one with distinct roles within the relaionship, we depend on each other for far more than the D/s element. She depends on me for structure, strength, to make the decisions that best fit us and in return I depend on her for her understanding, compassion, popping my ego occasionally. Although the D/s element of us runs through our everday lives, it doesn't rule our decisions to the detriment of our relationship, it's just another angle to be considered.



Skully7000 -> RE: If you want something done right... (6/17/2008 4:50:31 PM)

Unless i'm in the middle of something worthwhile(by my definition) I generally hate just sending someone off to do a task.

I would much rather have a helper and we do it as a team. in almost all things I work much better as part of a team.

the ebb and flow of things, at the same time while the power dynamic may seem almost completely dormant I'm really just not utilizing it... it is there and acknowledged. if its taken for granted I remind them of it.

I prefer to Dom by staying a step ahead and having my sub follow my lead. knowing that if I slack he/she will be right at my heals. I believe the word is Synergy- when two or more  things working together accomplishes more then the whole of their individual parts(at least that is how I remember the definition going)

I learn alot by teaching, I push myself by getting someone else to pick up the pace... it took me awhile to figure out how that all worked for me... its still not an exact science... but at least its fairly consistent:)

Cheers
Skully



ownedgirlie -> RE: If you want something done right... (6/17/2008 5:24:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantJenny

This topic came up as a side point in another thread, and I think merits its own discussion. As the saying goes, if you want something done right, do it yourself.


It's a catchy phrase, but not all that protective.  Taken literally, it would put a lot of industries out of business - garbage, legal, accounting, manufacturing, etc.  Not taken literally, it can still be taken too far and can cause someone to practice very poor time management skills.  While spend my time filing at work, if I have a file clerk and my time could be better spent bringing in new business?

quote:


I know that I find myself much less stressed by many tasks if I DO do them myself; they get done the way I want them done (and I don't have to spend hours or days explaining and/or redoing tasks to teach someone else) and I am not annoyed by waiting for the time it takes someone else to do the task, which always seems infinitely longer than when I do it myself, even if it objectively takes the exact same amount of time.

Teaching someone to do something just as I want it done may cost me more time in the short term, but will free me up greatly in the long term.  I have found it's more a matter of a person not wanting to give up control over something than not wanting to invest the time into teaching someone else to do it.

quote:


That said, I'm a dominant. I enjoy being served, and served well.

Yay!

quote:


I think that it mostly comes down to individual preferences on how one balances these two somewhat incongruous things. In my case, if I don't particularly care how a task is done, I can hand it off. (I have no issues with his taking out the trash.) If I have strong opinions about a task (say, putting away the laundry), I find it's usually better to do it myself.

What about the option of giving autonomy to the submissive to do the things you aren't greatly particular about, and teaching the submissive to do the other things to your liking?  This not only frees up your time in the long run, but allows the submissive to feel he or she is contributing something valuable to your life, and can be proud of a job well done.  It also allows you more opportunities to be pleased by your submissive.

quote:


As a submissive, do you feel like a failure when your dominant insists on doing certain things him/herself?

Not a failure, just not as useful as I know I can be.  It ends up being a little frustrating, knowing I could take so much more off his hands and free him up for other things, while allowing me the opportunity to be happy about contributing.  Instead, were he to insist on doing those things, he would be denying us both some great opportunities to work better together, to bond, to be content, etc.

quote:


How much service becomes TOO much, then, where you lose respect for your dominant because now you see them as simply lazy?

I have not run into "too much" with him.  He is anything but lazy as he is an overachiever and expects me to work hard, too.  Any time of his I free up by doing something for him, he spends doing something else.

quote:


As a dominant, where do you draw the line? How much service is too much? How much effort are you willing to put in to teaching your submissive to do things as you prefer and do you resent that effort at all? Do you think it realistic to expect the submissive to learn without being taught?

I once asked my Master if he resented all the time and energy and patience he put into me.  He said that would be terribly unfair to me if he did, and no, he does not.  Instead he enjoys my eagerness to do for him and to learn more.  He teaches me until I get it right, whether it's how he likes his feet massaged to how to do his office billing to how to analyze myself.  And sure, he expects me to learn some things without step by step instructions, but he also expects me to ask, rather than assume, if I'm not sure.  He loves to teach, and I have never felt like I was burdening when needing to be taught something.

quote:


Finally, in general, how does one reconcile being a highly independent individual with having someone on whom, on some level, you must become dependent over time?

I'm not sure I understand how the Master becomes dependent.  He knows how to do anything he teaches me to do, so if for whatever reason I can not do those things (sometimes he reprioritizes my time to work on other things), they either get put on hold or he picks them back up and does them. 



DesFIP -> RE: If you want something done right... (6/17/2008 5:32:54 PM)

If there are two methods of doing something that result in the exact same result, I would object vociferously to having to learn a different way which took a lot more time for me to do. That's micromanagement for no reason except that the top's a control freak.

But I'm not compatible with someone like that. I prefer someone who knows that life's too short to argue about which way his tee shirts are folded.



ownedgirlie -> RE: If you want something done right... (6/17/2008 5:34:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

If there are two methods of doing something that result in the exact same result, I would object vociferously to having to learn a different way which took a lot more time for me to do. That's micromanagement for no reason except that the top's a control freak.


LOL my ex husband used to yell at me for loading the dishwasher "wrong."  The dishes still got done.  They were still just as clean.  I'm the one who loaded and emptied it.  But he didn't like the spoons touching.  [8|]



DominantJenny -> RE: If you want something done right... (6/17/2008 5:44:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

Jenny - Can you give me another example? Because the towel example would really make me feel stupid, if I couldn't grasp his way of putting towels in the closet.

Cali


I'm not saying you couldn't grasp it, just that it's contrary to your instincts and you don't see any value in it. For example, there are several different ways one could fold a shirt. Most people I know have one way that they automatically do it. If he insisted on doing it his way, which was totally different from the way you always did it AND you saw no way in which it was better/faster/etc, how would you feel/react/think about it?
(And I think I'm derailing my own thread here. Oh, well, I'm still curious. :P)



Evility -> RE: If you want something done right... (6/17/2008 5:57:42 PM)

Done right and done the way you want them done are not always the same thing. I generally prefer the latter to the former.



MrSpectacular -> RE: If you want something done right... (6/17/2008 6:54:11 PM)

I think as a dominant you probably are (forgive my judgment) either micro managing too much or a control freak. Either way you are going to be disappointed in the results you get.
I also think you are doing a big disservice to the sub you are with - you are not allowing them it seems to do it the way you want. Rather it seems you have the attitude of ''if you want something doing right"  How the hell do you expect any sub to learn or be nurtured by that attitude. I am sorry - but just the tone of it and you expectations going in will lead any sub to fail you.
Part of building any relationship is the learning aspect of it. Each of us needs more teaching than others.  I also believe that you will get out of your relationship what you put in. Please give your subs a chance to please you - if you have selected carefully it is my experience they will want to please you in every way.

N



Leatherist -> RE: If you want something done right... (6/17/2008 7:19:35 PM)

Depends on if it's something I enjoy doing or not-and how much better they can do it than I can.



fluffyswitch -> RE: If you want something done right... (6/17/2008 7:25:59 PM)

to me there's a big difference between being asked to do something and being expected to do something. we have fallen into an agreement where i cook and keep certain foods in the apartment. that's fine. i still have some level of control over it. that being said it's my apartment. i still have a choice in the matter, whether it be what time the candy dish gets filled assuming it's full when he gets there and what i offer to make him for lunch. when it crosses the line to the point where i have no control over what i do and do not do in my own space then i have to start reconsidering, because i spend too much on this apartment to hand over complete control when we're in this space. and like other people have said-- if i start to feel like someone thinks i'm either stupid or a personal servant i have to reconsider. but that's just me.



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