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How would YOU treat your slaves were you in Roman times... - 6/17/2008 7:13:58 AM   
pompeii


Posts: 934
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From: Silicon Valley, San Jose, California
Status: offline 		How would YOU treat your slaves were you in Roman times & master of thousands?
(because, what you would do, is likely what really was done - given we're all not unique).

Back in my formative school days, I learned there were "good" and "bad" slave masters, and, I've always wondered which I would be. And what the "bad" slave masters did to their slaves. The high school books barely elaborated on that subject - but titillatingly to me - I would like to know what really happened in antiquity.

What would I do to my slaves were I to own, like they did in the Roman days, a thousand or more captives working on my estate. Would I select a few of the beauties for indoor duties? What would I do to them? How would I treat them?

Would would YOU do in the situation where you own a thousand Roman slaves?
(that would tell me a lot of what was really done - which isn't in the high school history books)


< Message edited by pompeii -- 6/17/2008 7:15:31 AM >
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RE: How would YOU treat your slaves were you in Roman t... - 6/17/2008 7:16:28 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
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Status: offline 		Treat them like family-and sell off the ones that would not get with the program.

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RE: How would YOU treat your slaves were you in Roman t... - 6/17/2008 7:20:12 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		My slaves would be treated as I treat them not and the same as I treated them when I was a Gorean Lifestyle Master. The mindsets are the same. My property to do with as I will (allowing for the incovenienence of local laws).

Iron Bear
(Incorrigible, irrepressible and irreverent)
Master of Bruin Cottage
(A Victorian Lifestyle poly home)

The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it.

Omar Khayyam 1048 CE to 1123 CE (Persian Mathematician, Scientist, Astronomer, Philosopher & Poet).

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RE: How would YOU treat your slaves were you in Roman t... - 6/17/2008 7:26:32 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Would would YOU do in the situation where you own a thousand Roman slaves?

Put them to work sustaining the household economically.  A few might serve as pleasure slaves, but as a rule they would be economic assets rather than idle luxuries.


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RE: How would YOU treat your slaves were you in Roman t... - 6/17/2008 7:37:43 AM   
OmegaG


Posts: 1474
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Status: offline 		hard to say because I would have been raised in a different culture with a different paradigm on humanity

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RE: How would YOU treat your slaves were you in Roman t... - 6/17/2008 7:39:26 AM   
mistoferin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OmegaG
hard to say because I would have been raised in a different culture with a different paradigm on humanity


That was my thought when I read the OP...how could anyone possibly provide an accurate response?

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RE: How would YOU treat your slaves were you in Roman t... - 6/17/2008 7:52:31 AM   
Mercnbeth


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I'll take a stab at it.
quote:

How would YOU treat your slaves were you in Roman times & master of thousands?
Pragmatically. Assuming of course you are trying to generate that type of response versus a philosophical discussion.

The mindset of those times was that slaves were like any other asset. A good slave owner, like a good businessman, would consider their value and care for them with that consideration. There is historical precedent. In the south, an Irish immigrant being paid a few pennies (Sorry for the Irish reference but there were few Italian immigrants during the time of US slavery to use as an example for those times.) was given worse jobs and more dangerous jobs than owned slaves. The Irish were considered expendable, slaves were too valuable a commodity to risk.

Naturally, personal preference and personal judgment would come into play about individual usage. But some pragmatism also comes into play. For instance, if beth were toiling in the fields her skin would be fried after minimum exposure - better to bring her inside for 'domesticated' service. There were 'good' and 'bad' slave owners in the past as there are in the present. Bankrupting a household by not appreciating and misusing a 'slave' can occur when using the word as a label or in its historically accurate form.  

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RE: How would YOU treat your slaves were you in Roman t... - 6/17/2008 7:56:24 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		With deep research you can find that there were many laws actually about how one could treat their slaves that were in effect both during Roman times as well as Greek and Jewish records depicting some basic levels of treatment. Not too unlike modern treatment of pets and working animals.

But there is also the idea that people owned slaves for various purposes. Depending on what you could afford. Scribes, estate managers, tutors, slaves owned for economic benifits and slaves owned for any number of other reasons.

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RE: How would YOU treat your slaves were you in Roman t... - 6/17/2008 8:08:18 AM   
subtee


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RE: How would YOU treat your slaves were you in Roman t... - 6/17/2008 8:31:06 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

With deep research you can find that there were many laws actually about how one could treat their slaves that were in effect both during Roman times as well as Greek and Jewish records depicting some basic levels of treatment. Not too unlike modern treatment of pets and working animals.

But there is also the idea that people owned slaves for various purposes. Depending on what you could afford. Scribes, estate managers, tutors, slaves owned for economic benifits and slaves owned for any number of other reasons.



Many of those laws however were selectively or never inforced. In Rome...almost all sexual relationships had a dominant and a submissive...and at any time (given one's position) a person could be 'taken' as a slave. In Rome, a slaves body was property and thus sexual property...available 24/7. As early as the Etruscans (predating then 'taken' by Rome) it was customary for all the slave girls to wait on their master, in position, naked. Sound familiar ?
 
Few if any owned 1000 slaves (too much upkeep) and most were for the enjoyment of hedonism...sexually, domestically, with the rest for work. One could kill a slave (usually sold instead) if there be any reasonble cause...first in the judgement of the owner. Many were clearly kidnapped and held in chains against their will until 'trained.' (also stolen in modern times)
 
As for the Greek or even Romans treating slaves like respected pets...yes sometimes BUT, at the summit of Greek power, Greeks were stripped of their indentity as all were property...a tool or servant of the military state and enforcement was ruthless. Example: for a young Greek male to ascend to manhood, they HAD to...kill a slave.

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RE: How would YOU treat your slaves were you in Roman t... - 6/17/2008 8:43:28 AM   
OmegaG


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


As for the Greek or even Romans treating slaves like respected pets...yes sometimes BUT, at the summit of Greek power, Greeks were stripped of their indentity as all were property...a tool or servant of the military state and enforcement was ruthless. Example: for a young Greek male to ascend to manhood, they HAD to...kill a slave.


Are you speaking of the Spartan rite of passage where the goal was not to kill the slave (strangled with their bare hands) but not getting caught in the act?  The slave was an accessory, and yes the Spartans felt superiority and had little regard for the lives of the surfs (which were really more what the slaves were, not household slaves but villiages of people within the Spartan city-state who had to provide the food for Sparta, were not able to leave and had no rights)

We can read what is written, we can discuss their rules, their practices and their possible mind sets, but in this day and age when we feel that every human has the potential for equal value, we cannot image what it was like for a citizen of Rome or any Greek city-state to look upon a barbarian or non-citizen, we cannot really ever know how they felt about these inferiour people or what their intents towards them were.

_____________________________


Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

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RE: How would YOU treat your slaves were you in Roman t... - 6/17/2008 8:45:23 AM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Depending on which period of history you are talking about, slaves then might not have been quite so far off from our consentual slaves now. Later in history they had rights (oh no, slaves with rights, how not TWUE) and had ways to get out of slavery after a time. There were others who chose to be slaves, as well, for various reasons.
If I had a hoarde of slaves working a large piece of land, thats exactly what they'd do. They would have their tasks and there would be standards set for performing them. Poor behavior would be punished, good behavior rewarded. I am sure I would play favorites, prooting my few favorites to house servants ratehr than farmhand slaves. Id treat it more like  a business (without the punishments) than the lifestyle I have now. Back then, thats what it was. Slaves then were not seected for their pleasingness in interpersonal relationships, they were selected bought and sold for their usefulness, the same as your farm animals and other working implements.

DV


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(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: How would YOU treat your slaves were you in Roman t... - 6/17/2008 9:27:44 AM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline 		There are records of culinary slaves changing hands for amounts in excess of 250, 000 sesterces ...that's premiership footballer type amounts of money .. similarly for the slaves that becaame tutors to the better off families. A well educated, well mannered, well presented and useful salve was a very valuable piece of property, and was respect as such. Obvioulsy the unskilled, ill-educated, bad-mannered types got a rough deal ...even the Romans admitted that a slave owned by the men that ran the silver mines in Spain were faced with the worst fate imaginable

I think I would probably be being treated pretty much the same .. in fact am thinking it would almost be better for me ....2000 years ago Sir wouldn't have been able to power the nail gun ... or the cattle prod ... and certaibly the vacuum cleaner would not have been an issue



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RE: How would YOU treat your slaves were you in Roman t... - 6/17/2008 10:48:39 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pompeii

How would YOU treat your slaves were you in Roman times & master of thousands?
(because, what you would do, is likely what really was done - given we're all not unique).

Back in my formative school days, I learned there were "good" and "bad" slave masters, and, I've always wondered which I would be. And what the "bad" slave masters did to their slaves. The high school books barely elaborated on that subject - but titillatingly to me - I would like to know what really happened in antiquity.

What would I do to my slaves were I to own, like they did in the Roman days, a thousand or more captives working on my estate. Would I select a few of the beauties for indoor duties? What would I do to them? How would I treat them?

Would would YOU do in the situation where you own a thousand Roman slaves?
(that would tell me a lot of what was really done - which isn't in the high school history books)



Being any ancient historian I know a bit about the period in question.

A good master is one who never lets his passions or his desires rule him. She uses her slaves to the best of their ability to increase her family's wealth. He uses punishments sparingly and instead inspires obedience through consistent and fair rules but will punish when it is required -- it will be harsh and set an example to all slaves. She never forgets that it would take only loss in a war for her to end up on the other side. He never interferes in another master's decisions except in the most extreme case and then will offer purchase. She realizes that allowing skilled and highly placed slave to make money and have some authority encourages good work and loyalty.


I should hope would have been a good owner in the ancient world.

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 6/17/2008 10:54:28 AM >

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RE: How would YOU treat your slaves were you in Roman t... - 6/17/2008 10:51:19 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

With deep research you can find that there were many laws actually about how one could treat their slaves that were in effect both during Roman times as well as Greek and Jewish records depicting some basic levels of treatment. Not too unlike modern treatment of pets and working animals.

But there is also the idea that people owned slaves for various purposes. Depending on what you could afford. Scribes, estate managers, tutors, slaves owned for economic benifits and slaves owned for any number of other reasons.



Many of those laws however were selectively or never inforced. In Rome...almost all sexual relationships had a dominant and a submissive...and at any time (given one's position) a person could be 'taken' as a slave. In Rome, a slaves body was property and thus sexual property...available 24/7. As early as the Etruscans (predating then 'taken' by Rome) it was customary for all the slave girls to wait on their master, in position, naked. Sound familiar ?

Few if any owned 1000 slaves (too much upkeep) and most were for the enjoyment of hedonism...sexually, domestically, with the rest for work. One could kill a slave (usually sold instead) if there be any reasonble cause...first in the judgement of the owner. Many were clearly kidnapped and held in chains against their will until 'trained.' (also stolen in modern times)

As for the Greek or even Romans treating slaves like respected pets...yes sometimes BUT, at the summit of Greek power, Greeks were stripped of their indentity as all were property...a tool or servant of the military state and enforcement was ruthless. Example: for a young Greek male to ascend to manhood, they HAD to...kill a slave.


I won't nitpick other than to say that I think you are collapsing several different periods and people into one big pot that does little justice to them all.

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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

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Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: How would YOU treat your slaves were you in Roman t... - 6/17/2008 10:55:57 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		I hate these historical what-if questions.

If I owned slaves in Roman days, I'd treat them the way I learned to treat them, based on my upbringing, social conditioning, and genetic predispositions.  That's no different than how I treat my slave today; the way I treat her, today, is a clear reflection of what I have learned over my 31 years about human relations and social conditioning on top of whatever my genetic predisposition towards emotions in the first place.

In short, I'd treat them in a manner rather consistant with how others treated their slaves, historically. 

Stephan


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RE: How would YOU treat your slaves were you in Roman t... - 6/17/2008 10:59:28 AM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pompeii

Would would YOU do in the situation where you own a thousand Roman slaves?
(that would tell me a lot of what was really done - which isn't in the high school history books)



Impossible for me to say. The culture and teaching of the Roman times is so different than what we are taught now that it's impossible for me to put myself there enough to accurately guess what I would do. The best guess I can make is that I'd probably make use of them and hopefully wouldn't be cruel.

By the way, if you want to know what the bad masters did you can look it up. The information exists and, in my opinion, wasn't very sexy.

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RE: How would YOU treat your slaves were you in Roman t... - 6/17/2008 11:42:50 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OmegaG

We can read what is written, we can discuss their rules, their practices and their possible mind sets, but in this day and age when we feel that every human has the potential for equal value, we cannot image what it was like for a citizen of Rome or any Greek city-state to look upon a barbarian or non-citizen, we cannot really ever know how they felt about these inferiour people or what their intents towards them were.


I suggest your supposition which I have highlited is flawed. There are activists in the USA who espouse that all peoples who are not caucasion and christian are non human and should be treated as animals or put to death. During the years of apartheid in South Africa all non whites were treated as subhuman or animals to a level where police officers could sumarily execute them for little reason or incarserate them and efven beat them to death or infact hang them with impunity. Again closer to home where I can rememvber the discrimination against out own native Australians where the law looked the other way if an "Abbo" was beaten but god help an Aboriginal if her or she stold a fathing from a white fellah and woe betide and black fellah if he sexually looked or touched a white woman, unsteralised castration by the family men was the least of his worries. Even today I know many people who actively do not believe in equal rights and that every person has the same rights. Sociologically, this shows up to when affluent areas of society happily have the poor and elderly tossed out on the streets.  No lass there is plenty of evidence of people seeing other parts of society as seconf class or only worthy to be treated as serfs or slaves.....

Iron Bear
(Incorrigible, irrepressible and irreverent)
Master of Bruin Cottage
(A Victorian Lifestyle poly home)

The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it.

Omar Khayyam 1048 CE to 1123 CE (Persian Mathematician, Scientist, Astronomer, Philosopher & Poet).




< Message edited by IronBear -- 6/17/2008 11:45:11 AM >

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RE: How would YOU treat your slaves were you in Roman t... - 6/17/2008 11:52:20 AM   
OmegaG


Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		I grew up in a paradigm where all humans had the potential for equality, that is my social conditioning.  You may remember and have seen something else, but it is not the world that I know.  I don't understand discrimination based on the color of a person's skin, I don't know religious persecution, I have never known an inferiour human.  That is because of the way I was raised.  I have no other view point from which to judge people around me.

_____________________________


Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

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RE: How would YOU treat your slaves were you in Roman t... - 6/17/2008 12:14:04 PM   
vield


Posts: 354
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Ah yes, another Historical fantasy!

If I were in the slave owning position because I was rich enough to own 1,000 expensive slaves, no doubt I would hire subordinates to supervise the slaves and insure that they performed their income producing activities, whatever era it was of the thousand plus years of Roman influence.

If I were not rich but ended up with 1,000 plus slaves through inheritance, gambling, a rich marriage or good fortune in war, no doubt I would segregate out those slaves I might have a use for, and sell the rest in whatever manner would bring me the most return.

I expect I would have my slaves properly maintained to protect my investment.

I know that then as now there are people who will break their toys, including the human ones, simply from lack of thought.

No doubt I would insure that my favorite kinks happened regularly.

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As always, your mileage may vary!

vield

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