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Enabling vs Serving - 6/16/2008 7:55:59 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Is there a difference between enabling and serving? If so, what is it?

Does it matter?

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RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/16/2008 8:16:15 PM

ownedgirlie

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Well first, there is a mindset that "serving" is limited domestic duties. In my case, I serve him by obeying him. I serve my mind to him, my body to him, my heart to him...you get the idea.

So going by that premise, sure, there can be a difference. If my brother is an alchoholic and I lie for him and bail him out, I am enabling him, I am not serving him. If my Master is an alchoholic and it becomes part of my service to lie for him and bail him out, then I am serving him by enabling him. At the moment I can not think of a circumstance where enabling is a good thing. In such a case that I am serving my Master by enabling him, I would say it is an unhealthy form of service. After all, a person can serve up crap just as they can serve up gems.

In the case of a submissve who is co-dependent, having her (or him) submit may well be enabling the person's co-dependency, rather than dominating the person. I suppose it has to do with the way the person is dominated. I for one was extremely co-dependent when I met my Master. I had to please everyone, all the time, and I valued myself based on how happy everyone was with me. His way of mastering me was to channel that energy, to teach me to find my own value based on who I discovered myself to be, and to get rid of my need to please everybody, all the time. The only one I concern myself with pleasing now is him. Am I co-dependent to him? Eh, maybe. But my value comes from me, not from him, and so whatever co-dependency issues I might still be lugging around, they're not at such a level they are unhealthy for me. For example, he was once degrading me (a common form of exchange between us, and not punishment) by calling me value-less names and I grinned and said, "No I'm not!" We both laughed. Touche'.

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RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/16/2008 8:33:20 PM

darkpassenger434

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I think it has to do with what the person in question is doing. If a person's behavior is generally allowing their partner to hurt or destroy themself, then I would call it enabling. Service can be uplifting for both, enabling never is.

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RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/16/2008 8:59:25 PM

BRNaughtyAngel

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Maybe it's because I'm sleepy, but I'm not quite understanding the question LA.

Enabling the submissive? Enabling the dominant? And in what way?

I are confused!

And sleepy.

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RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/16/2008 9:21:07 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Hi BR, I'm being intentionally vague, so answer however you like.

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RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/16/2008 9:30:58 PM

christine1

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if a sub "serves" her alcoholic master by bringing him 10 mixed drinks a night because he orders her to, is she serving him, or enabling his alcoholism? maybe both can be done at once in certain circumstances.

maybe the differences between the two are in attitude and intent, i think they are most likely quite subtle. interesting, i've never thought about it before....not sure what i think as of yet, these are just my first thoughts about it.

< Message edited by christine1 -- 6/16/2008 9:35:17 PM >

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RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/16/2008 10:29:41 PM

Leatherist

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I see service as competent adult action, as part of a team.

Enabling is about needing to be treated like a child to function.

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RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/16/2008 10:59:49 PM

Skully7000

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When I'm using my wit or proper allocation of resources to cut through my friends excuses...allowing them to stay at the party later then they planned..or having another drink when they were trying to take it easy...or make it to the event when they didn't have the money... That is Enabling...

When I pick them up or drive them home b/c they order me too...when they delegate a chore so they don't have to wake up early the next day or don't need to worry about being hung over..

then its a Fantasy...I mean Service:)

by my definition of Enabling...its not neccesarily a bad thing reading the prior posts...I forget that often words have social stigmas attached to them...or I could just be using the word incorrectly

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RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 1:27:08 AM

MasterFireMaam

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Intent. Enabling comes from a place of fear, serving comes from a place of love (or at least proper service does).

It matters a great deal if you're interested in healthy people in a healthy relationship.

Master Fire

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RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 2:10:20 AM

eyesopened

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

Intent. Enabling comes from a place of fear, serving comes from a place of love (or at least proper service does).

It matters a great deal if you're interested in healthy people in a healthy relationship.

Master Fire

Master Fire, you are so wise! Yes, it's the intent.

my Master has given me the directive to at all times protect Him and to make sure He always presents the best possible image. This may come in the form of making sure there aren't crumbs in His beard to making sure He doesn't indulge in self-destuctive behavior. In our relationship, enabling Him would not be serving Him and would go against a very specific order.

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RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 2:44:54 AM

Focus50

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Is there a difference between enabling and serving? If so, what is it?

Does it matter?

I think service is pro-active and goal orientated and is the submissive's contribution to a working D/s dynamic.

I think enabling is passive and often unrecognised. At its worst, it's accompanied with negative feelings of hopelessness and defeatism.... Battered spouses often contribute substantially to their own misery by enabling.

For anyone who knows of someone being abused, it matters GREATLY that the victim just seems to take it - utter exasperation....

Focus.

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RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 4:18:55 AM

TysGalilah

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Yes, there is a difference.

If I am asked to cancel several of his appts today, because he has overbooked himself and, in asking me to do that task, is actually doing the responsible thing for the other person as well as himself ( not over extending and stressing his healthy)> that is serving.

If I am asked to cancel his appt with a dr ....because he is avoiding going and taking care of his health. Or cancelling his scheduled appt with clients because........hes hung over, or avoiding a difficult situation and wants me to lie , or is just consistently acting irresponsible to his obligations and asking me to cover for his lazyness or dysfunction > that is enabling.

as the one serving another
If I am obeying from a place of strength and freewill (mentally as well as physically) > I am serving

If I am doing it from a place of fear or feelings of lack of choice ie. I need to be there serving because I feel I cannot take care of myself or fear the consequences of being w/o another person to take care of my needs for me. If I am focusing on taking care of another person ( who is unhealthy) in order to ignore my own unhealthyness > I am enabling. enabling my co-dependency and probably the other persons.

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RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 4:25:51 AM

HalloweenWhite

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I've always thought there was a big difference; I see enabling as helping someone do something for themselves, and serving as someone else doing it for them.

As for does it matter- no.

Perhaps I misunderstand your question?.

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RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 5:00:32 AM

BRNaughtyAngel

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Hmmmmmm everyone so far has answered that the s-type could be enabling the dominant in some cases.

So what about the other way around? Do some dominants enable their submissives by giving them an escape from the world? From decision making? From reality? Etc.....

You can read plenty of submissive profiles and see, women in particular, who are looking for escapism in their service, and I don't just mean a temporary haven from the pressures of life.

I've only had one cup of coffee,

so I hope that makes sense.

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RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 5:14:38 AM

DominantJenny

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

Do some dominants enable their submissives by giving them an escape from the world? From decision making? From reality? Etc.....

Ooh. Yes. But I have no idea how it is (this early in the morning) that I know the difference...but I do.
I suppose it's those submissives that CAN'T get it together on their own, though there are exceptions there, but that's a big red flag for me that it's someone looking for an enabler rather than a dominant, I think.

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RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 5:31:55 AM

TNstepsout

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Good question LA.

I can think of some times that serving might enable the D to continue to be lazy, avoid learning something new, avoid responsibility etc... I suppose it takes a self-aware Dom/me to avoid that trap and a strong sub to point it out if that is happening. An example might be if the sub has to drive everywhere because the Dom/me has a fear of driving. This enables the phobia to continue and isn't healthy. However if the Dom/me just enjoys being chauffered, it's a whole different thing. I suppose a sneaky Dom/me might not reveal the weakness behind the instructions, so what's a sub to do if s/he suspects s/he is enabling?

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RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 6:01:24 AM

OmegaG

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Well first, there is a mindset that "serving" is limited domestic duties. In my case, I serve him by obeying him. I serve my mind to him, my body to him, my heart to him...you get the idea.

So going by that premise, sure, there can be a difference. If my brother is an alchoholic and I lie for him and bail him out, I am enabling him, I am not serving him. If my Master is an alchoholic and it becomes part of my service to lie for him and bail him out, then I am serving him by enabling him. At the moment I can not think of a circumstance where enabling is a good thing. In such a case that I am serving my Master by enabling him, I would say it is an unhealthy form of service. After all, a person can serve up crap just as they can serve up gems.

In the case of a submissve who is co-dependent, having her (or him) submit may well be enabling the person's co-dependency, rather than dominating the person. I suppose it has to do with the way the person is dominated. I for one was extremely co-dependent when I met my Master. I had to please everyone, all the time, and I valued myself based on how happy everyone was with me. His way of mastering me was to channel that energy, to teach me to find my own value based on who I discovered myself to be, and to get rid of my need to please everybody, all the time. The only one I concern myself with pleasing now is him. Am I co-dependent to him? Eh, maybe. But my value comes from me, not from him, and so whatever co-dependency issues I might still be lugging around, they're not at such a level they are unhealthy for me. For example, he was once degrading me (a common form of exchange between us, and not punishment) by calling me value-less names and I grinned and said, "No I'm not!" We both laughed. Touche'.

Now, this to me begs the question are you really searving an alchoholic person by helping him continue to be an alcoholic or would you be serving him by voicing your concerns and doing what you could to enable him to be a healthier person?

I tend to stay away from people with substance abuse problems (learned that lesson way too young in life, I don't mix will with them), but the analogy I can think of runs more along the lines of food, because I tend to like to eat healthy. Many people when they are single tend to gravitate towards convienience foods, so lets say the Master has gotten used to fast food or frozen meals and he asks me to go get fast food or fix a frozen pizza, I could enable those habbits by cooking what he asks or I could (and would and have) talk of my desire to make a homecooked meal, talk to him about how I could take time to pre-prepare healthy snacks or meals so that when I'm not there he has convienient foods that are beneficial. I know that some will have a cow and say that I'm upity, but on the other hand I also care that he stays healthy and grows old with me, so why would I serve him by enabling harmful eating habbits?

And I do tend to present it as an option that he can agree to or disregard. There are times when options just simply don't occure to someone when they get into a habbit of doing things a particular way.

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RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 6:19:29 AM

DominantJenny

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OmegaG
And I do tend to present it as an option that he can agree to or disregard.

Minor hijack: You know, seriously, that should be, like, rule one in the submissive handbook. I don't think I've ever met a D-type that reacted well to something that WASN'T presented as an option (aside from hard limits, that is.)

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RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 7:01:18 AM

LATEXBABY64

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enabling prevents someone from growing It is someone with codependent type traits would fit this
serving is more of i want to please because it pleases me and the person your will

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RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 7:12:25 AM

cantilena

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Is there a difference between enabling and serving? If so, what is it?

Does it matter?

First, I think you have to define the use of enabling in the question.

There's a bias in the popular lexicon toward using the word in relation to addictions and unhealthy co-dependent relationships. If this is the bias used here, I don't view dominance as a negative trait or D/s relationships as unhealthy - so no, my service to him isn't enabling bad behavior.

If we take the current-times jargon (and corresponding emotional whammy) away from the word, I find it to be an extremely positive thing: enbabling.

Through service, I enable him to be a better person.
Through service, I enable him to have a better life.
Through service, I enable him to enjoy exploring his own dominance.
Through service, I enable him to worry less about the mundane.

I think there are slight differences, but that they are very closely related. Using the pure meaning of the word, enabling to me is about providing power, ability, or means to another to achieve a set goal. In some ways, that's exactly what I do.... but it does take two.

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