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RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 7:24:57 AM   
cailinbeag


Posts: 10
Joined: 2/15/2008
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline 		I think there's a few differences.

Service is action. Enabling is action with a mind to its effect on well being.

Service and enabling are subjective. For example: To give a child a scholarship is to enable them to continue their education.

The distinction between service and enabling is made by the one performing the action. For example: 1. submissive cooks fried chicken for Dominant because fried chicken is Dominant's favorite meal. submissive is serving. 2. submissive cooks fried chicken for Dominant because fried chicken is Domiant's favorite meal. submissive believes Dominant to be overweight. submissive has passed judgement and views their actions as enabling.

The concept of enabling is a control thing, fed by what a submissive believes is right for a Dominant, not what the Dominant believes is right for the Dominant.

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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 9:31:41 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

Hmmmmmm everyone so far has answered that the s-type could be enabling the dominant in some cases.

So what about the other way around?  Do some dominants enable their submissives by giving them an escape from the world?  From decision making?  From reality?  Etc.....


Bah!  I said it here:  "In the case of a submissve who is co-dependent, having her (or him) submit may well be enabling the person's co-dependency, rather than dominating the person." 
 
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: OmegaG
Now, this to me begs the question are you really searving an alchoholic person by helping him continue to be an alcoholic or would you be serving him by voicing your concerns and doing what you could to enable him to be a healthier person?


Yes and no.  As mentioned in my first post, a person can serve up crap just as well as a gem.  Serving by enabling is crap.  While I understand exactly where you're coming from here, you're assuming (I think?) that "serving" is automatically something good.  And it's probably the most logical way of thinking about it.  I was just putting a twist on it in my post. 

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(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 9:43:31 AM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline 		Sir is a self confessed lazy bum ... He tells me this Himself pretty regularly.
The domestic service I am expected to give Him, certainly enables this laziness ... If I was out working two jobs while He sat at home trolling the internet and drinking beer then I am also enabling His laziness. The second example would simply not happen - He wouldn't do it .. and I wouldn't stick around for it. I enable Him through domestic service .. to come home from work and bum out all evening, not to bum out all day.

Something else struck me with this question - sometimes the best service I will give is by not enabling Him.
Example. Sir sleeps really badly - worse even than me. He also takes very little exercise, eats according to no particular pattern .. and drinks more coffee in a day than most of Africa. Now I am determined that my Owner will get into a restful, healthy and regular pattern of eating, sleeping and exercise. The service will be dragging His ass out of bed early and feeding him de-caff ... and enticing Him into the gym, and hiding the animal cookies late in the evening. Even though this will cause Him to bitch, grumble and probably beat me. Its serving Him to not be His enabler.

slightly off topic I know ... but thought it would be an interesting side bar - how many give service that is actively against enabling certain behaviours.


edited to add

Sir informs me that I *would* stick around and enable Him to be a bum, that I just don't think I would. This would be because being a bread winner is a form of service and I am a service doormat ... errr I mean slave ... a service slave.

< Message edited by softness -- 6/17/2008 9:58:40 AM >

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(in reply to cantilena)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 9:49:21 AM   
BRNaughtyAngel


Posts: 1821
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

Hmmmmmm everyone so far has answered that the s-type could be enabling the dominant in some cases.

So what about the other way around?  Do some dominants enable their submissives by giving them an escape from the world?  From decision making?  From reality?  Etc.....


Bah!  I said it here:  "In the case of a submissve who is co-dependent, having her (or him) submit may well be enabling the person's co-dependency, rather than dominating the person." 
 



Hey hey hey, I'm not responsible for reading comprehension and thinking too hard with only one cup of coffee in me!



(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 10:40:58 AM   
charlotteS


Posts: 203
Joined: 3/9/2008
Status: offline 		When Master is doing something that I perceive as not good for him I bring up my concern in a respectful way.  If I'm worried he's not eating healthy than in my mind service would be setting aside time to talk to him about my concerns.  It would not be bringing it up every time he wants a pizza and making him feel bad because I'm determined not to enable him.  It's up to Master how he chooses to live his life.  As a slave I chose who to beg a collar of.  If I can't respect his right to make his own choices and serve him as he wishes me to then I probably shouldn't be owned by him. 

My point is that while enabling is not a particularily healthy way to interact neither is deciding that you have the right to decide how your partner should live their life.  When I bring up concerns I have for Master in a manner that suggests merely that I want the best for him, not that I'm forcing the best on him he is usually very receptive and appreciative that I cared enough to not only take the time to tell of a concern but to do in a way that allows him to make the decision HE believes to be best.

charlotte  



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(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 1:30:49 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Is there a difference between enabling and serving?  If so, what is it?

Does it matter?


My first thought before reading through the other replies, is that a good M-type enables the s-type to serve.

I wasn't putting the words in any sort of negative light.


_____________________________

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 3:19:54 PM   
MasterWilliam55


Posts: 361
Joined: 1/27/2006
Status: offline 		To enable....to provide the tools, atmosphere, authorization; to make possible, to provide opportunity.

To serve....To render assistance..to be of service, to have definite use, to be usefull, to render obedience, to perform duties.

To enable is pro-active and can be negitive or positive. To serve is reactive and is only positive. It is only positive in the fact you are providing a service, by doing what the D/s relationship expects.  The outcome or net result is irrelevant.

We probably shouldn't be looking at pro-active (enable) and reactive (service) moralistically or by twisting the meaning of the words.

The word enable has mainly positive connotations but some negative situations arise. By servicing your Dom 10 drinks, night after night,  will "enable" him to become a drunk. To not serve those drinks, "enables" him to become healthy. To service your Dom those drinks, regardless of the outcome, is positive in that you have complied with your responsibility to obey and therefore serve.

Aside from the  issues around semantics your question raises, a Dom enables his/her sub to serve and the sub in turn enables the Dominant to be just that, Dominant. It is supposed to be a positive experience for both and where service enables a dom to be destuctive or self-destructive, no positive experience can come out of that. Yes, the pure act of service is positive, in that you are doing what your nature suggests. In doing so though, all will be lost.


(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 4:37:55 PM   
Skully7000


Posts: 377
Joined: 7/22/2007
Status: offline 		Wow, I never realized there was such a Negative stigma put towards "enabling"

I just did a quick google Definition search and none of the definitions had any negative attachements to them. (just to make sure my friends and I weren't using it wrong all these years)

but its interesting... I forget how much peoples upbrings affect their cognitive reasoning/associations.

if you say to me "lets get a pie" I will respond with : "meatball, pepporoni, or extracheese?"
where in someone else in will say: "blueberry, apple, or cherry?"

(in reply to MasterWilliam55)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 4:57:38 PM   
MasterWilliam55


Posts: 361
Joined: 1/27/2006
Status: offline 		"enable" is just a word, a verb. And it simply means to provide conditions or the means for someone to do or become something. It could be good or bad, but generally speaking it is used in a positive sense as you suggest. The definition of the word though is neutral. We can and do enable both positive and negative actions.

(in reply to Skully7000)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 5:02:14 PM   
DrkJourney


Posts: 1917
Joined: 5/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

Hmmmmmm everyone so far has answered that the s-type could be enabling the dominant in some cases.

So what about the other way around?  Do some dominants enable their submissives by giving them an escape from the world?  From decision making?  From reality?  Etc.....

You can read plenty of submissive profiles and see, women in particular, who are looking for escapism in their service, and I don't just mean a temporary haven from the pressures of life. 

I've only had one cup of coffee,  so I hope that makes sense.


Now that one I've been exposed to.   A submissive was referred to me by another Domme.  After talking to him, I realized that if I accepted him, it would be enabling him to continue very detrimental behavior.  Granted if he had been with me things would've been different and definitely better, but I won't accept someone that doesn't have his head on straight.

The guy was overlapping one bad situation after another.  Not only non consensual abuse, but to the point where the last people he let into his home to "serve" took advantage of him to the point of extreme.  The male in the situtation was a registered sex offender... and used this guy's address to register..I don't know about other parts of the country, but sometimes it takes forever and a lot of trouble to remove and address from that list...and the guy just left and never bother to re-register any where else.  Because of events within that situation they had all even been arrested.  There were various other horror stories with these two, plus his dominant wife before them, and the situation he overlapped with the couple.

I know I'm not explaining this properly or in proper detail...but this guy was a mess..the last thing he needed was another dominant...I encouraged him to seek help, get a hold of himself, and then if he still wanted to serve search for a Domme then.

In his case I think taking him would've definitely been enabling.


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(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 5:06:30 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel
Hey hey hey, I'm not responsible for reading comprehension and thinking too hard with only one cup of coffee in me!





LOL!!!  You know I love you, coffee or no coffee!!



_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 5:08:10 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse


My first thought before reading through the other replies, is that a good M-type enables the s-type to serve.

I wasn't putting the words in any sort of negative light.



Wow.  That makes sense.  I've been so surrounded with co-dependency and addiction in my life that my mind automatically went to the bad kind of enabling!!  Eek!  Thanks for bringing it home! 

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 6:29:08 PM   
Skully7000


Posts: 377
Joined: 7/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterWilliam55

"enable" is just a word, a verb. And it simply means to provide conditions or the means for someone to do or become something. It could be good or bad, but generally speaking it is used in a positive sense as you suggest. The definition of the word though is neutral. We can and do enable both positive and negative actions.


I would like to agree with you except that judging from the "diverse" comments we have seen in this thread... it appears that it is "generally" perceived as a negative term.

Respectfully
Skully



(in reply to MasterWilliam55)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 6:36:55 PM   
MasterWilliam55


Posts: 361
Joined: 1/27/2006
Status: offline 		Your right on that account.

(in reply to Skully7000)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 8:34:43 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		I hate when semantics ruin a good conversation.

Enabling in a relationship context, generally refers to taking actions to remove barriers for one's partner, so that partner may continue with behavior that is either self-destructive or damaging to the relationship.

I have my vices.  I am comfortable with those vices, in-so-much as I consciously choose to enjoy those vices.  My slave has a strong distaste when I ask her to indulge me in those vices.  Fortunately, we have such a relationship that she chooses to offer her opinions in a respectful manner, and doesn't base the value of our relationship solely on her own discomfort.  I think everyone has a vice/vices to one degree or another; the question is if we can accept our partners in whole, and not 'without the vice.'  An enabler, by definition, is one who ignores their own misgivings about their partners behavior, in favor of a fantasy view that their partner doesn't really suffer from whatever overt, self-destructive desires they might have.

Serving means being of assistance; enabling (in this case) is chosing not to assist, and willfully (or unwittingly) ignoring clear warnings.

Stephan

< Message edited by Stephann -- 6/17/2008 8:36:01 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 9:35:23 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks you guys for your great responses.  I don't have my own formed just yet, but you've actually given me quite a bit of food for thought and some unexpected paths of understanding.  Keep them coming!

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(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 11:25:48 PM   
Skully7000


Posts: 377
Joined: 7/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Thanks you guys for your great responses.  I don't have my own formed just yet, but you've actually given me quite a bit of food for thought and some unexpected paths of understanding.  Keep them coming!


Wait a second..you mean you don't have a fully articulate well written response that has been whittled of any fluff in order to make it clear and concise while also supplementing a very informative search list of posts dealing with the exact same question that has been posed 491 times before?

I'm ...i'm ... at a loss for words.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/17/2008 11:52:06 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Is there a difference between enabling and serving?  If so, what is it?

Does it matter?


Service always enable - both positive and negative - but you don't have to serve to enable.
In other words, service always leads to the enablement of something and it isn't just a submissive thang, dominants do it too.
 
Does it matter? Only to the extent that if you don't realise it then you are being pretty naive and it could cause damage.
 
the.dark.

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RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/18/2008 2:39:20 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

Hmmmmmm everyone so far has answered that the s-type could be enabling the dominant in some cases.

So what about the other way around?  Do some dominants enable their submissives by giving them an escape from the world?  From decision making?  From reality?  Etc.....

I s'pose they do enable each other's unique D or s needs, but *complement* is probably more to the point....
 
Focus.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Enabling vs Serving - 6/18/2008 6:52:53 AM   
TysGalilah


Posts: 589
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse


My first thought before reading through the other replies, is that a good M-type enables the s-type to serve.

I wasn't putting the words in any sort of negative light.



Wow.  That makes sense.  I've been so surrounded with co-dependency and addiction in my life that my mind automatically went to the bad kind of enabling!!  Eek!  Thanks for bringing it home! 


me too

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galilah

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 40
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