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Bush's Fiscal Polcies To Hamper Next President - 6/16/2008 5:41:06 AM   
pinksugarsub


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quote:

A poison pill, in corporate jargon, is a financial arrangement designed to protect current management by crippling the company if someone else takes over.

Paul Krugman

As I read the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center’s analysis of the presidential candidates’ tax proposals, I realized that the tax cuts enacted by the Bush administration are, in effect, a fiscal poison pill aimed at future administrations.

True, the tax cuts won’t prevent a change in management — the Constitution sees to that. But they will make it hard for the next president to change the country’s direction.

Remainder of article can be seen at link below.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/16/opinion/16krugman.html?ref=opinion
 
The money has to come from somewhere -- if W/we receive tax cuts W/we should expect fewer government progams.
 
pinksugarsub

[Mod Note:  article trimmed]


< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 6/16/2008 6:38:32 AM >

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RE: Bush's Fiscal Pocies To Harm Next President - 6/16/2008 5:44:57 AM   
Irishknight


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub

The money has to come from somewhere -- if W/we receive tax cuts W/we should expect fewer government progams.
 
pinksugarsub


That works for me.  We have too many social programs now that subsidize those who should be out looking for work.  I believe the term is "welfare dependant."

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RE: Bush's Fiscal Pocies To Harm Next President - 6/16/2008 5:50:36 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub

The money has to come from somewhere -- if W/we receive tax cuts W/we should expect fewer government progams.
 
pinksugarsub


That works for me.  We have too many social programs now that subsidize those who should be out looking for work.  I believe the term is "welfare dependant."


Like Blackwater, Haliburton and dare I say it, the likes of Donald Trump?

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RE: Bush's Fiscal Pocies To Harm Next President - 6/16/2008 7:03:47 AM   
SugarMyChurro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight
We have too many social programs now that subsidize those who should be out looking for work.


You mean like corporate CEOs, Bear Stearns, etc?

I want my $160 billion back:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savings_and_Loan_crisis

I want my $29 billion back:
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/flowchart/2008/3/25/what-taxpayers-get-from-the-bear-stearns-bailout.html

And my $3 Trillion back:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/07/AR2008030702846.html

Get your priorities straight and maybe you can avoid the endless financial ass fucking you, your children, your grandchildren, and etc. will be receiving otherwise.

Focus on the bullshit small stuff and the big stuff will just keep flying by overhead without your so much as taking notice.


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RE: Bush's Fiscal Pocies To Harm Next President - 6/16/2008 7:43:10 AM   
Irishknight


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Status: offline 		Did I limit my statement?  I don't think so.  As I said, we have too many welfare dependant assholes out there sucking up our money on social programs.  I do believe that the things you mentioned are not exactly "social programs."  I'm sure you realized that before you posted though. 

And, my priorities are straight.   I  am taking care of my family and not begging the government to do it while sitting on my ass whining about the size of my welfare check.  You guys really need to cut back on the caffeine. 

Just because I addressed what the OP mentioned doesn't mean that I have my head in the sand.  You guys could actually try NOT assuming that you know more or are more socially conscious than the rest of us some time.  Nice hijack though.

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RE: Bush's Fiscal Pocies To Harm Next President - 6/16/2008 8:19:39 AM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

Did I limit my statement?  I don't think so.


...to be fair, it reads like you did, here.....

quote:

We have too many social programs now that subsidize those who should be out looking for work.  I believe the term is "welfare dependant."


...in all honesty that doesn't read as if it applies to corporate welfare.

quote:

As I said, we have too many welfare dependant assholes out there sucking up our money on social programs. 


.......so it's not the money that offends you, it's the principle? Thing is, corporate welfare takes a broadly similar amount out of the budget while benefiting far fewer people.
Do you see any inequality or injustice in removing welfare programmes for the worst off, while retaining welfare programmes for the very best off?

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RE: Bush's Fiscal Pocies To Harm Next President - 6/16/2008 9:35:35 AM   
Irishknight


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Status: offline 		Then, philosophy, you ask the question not jump onto someone with presumptions of superior knowledge like some are in the habit of doing.  And thank you for addressing it without being snarky and self important.  Others could learn from you.

A welfare dependant corporation should go out of business.  A welfare dependant human that can get a job should get off his/her ass and do so.  I see that the welfare system on the whole is abused and wasteful.  You remember the "urban legend" of the welfare mom who used the neighborhood kids to get better benefits?  I always laugh at those who label it false because I've seen it.  Maybe it does or doesn't happen with the easy access we have to computers today.  I don't know.  What I do know is that I've heard people say that it wasn't worth it for them to take a job because welfare paid them more.  People like that are milking the system and need to try being a bit more self sufficient.
Pick up dogshit like DAs guy does but quit sponging off the rest of us.

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RE: Bush's Fiscal Polcies To Hamper Next President - 6/16/2008 10:03:45 AM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		There's plenty of things in govt that can be cut!

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RE: Bush's Fiscal Polcies To Hamper Next President - 6/16/2008 10:08:01 AM   
shorty21


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Status: offline 		Ok I have a question for IrishKnight. Do you consider those on things such as food stamps, rent assistance and such these welfare dependant assholes?????

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RE: Bush's Fiscal Polcies To Hamper Next President - 6/16/2008 10:15:14 AM   
Irishknight


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Status: offline 		If they don't need it ... yes.  If they are abusing the system and not trying to help themselves out ... yes.  These things are supposed to be there as temporary measures to help people through rough times.  They were not meant to replace getting a job.  Too many people use them that way so they don't have to work.
Its like unemployment.  You use it while you look for a job not instead of looking for a job.  I am starting a new business.  I could technically go apply for unemployment and draw a check.  I don't because that would be abusing the system and it might hurt someone who needs that money.
I have had friends on all of these programs.  They used them for exactly what they were meant to ... help while they tried to get back on their feet.
Am I the only one who sees a difference in living off the system without trying to get on your feet and using it as intended?

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RE: Bush's Fiscal Pocies To Harm Next President - 6/16/2008 10:17:02 AM   
SugarMyChurro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight
Did I limit my statement?  I don't think so.  As I said, we have too many welfare dependant assholes out there sucking up our money on social programs.  I do believe that the things you mentioned are not exactly "social programs."  I'm sure you realized that before you posted though.


Yeah, we all realized perfectly well what you said. You were effectively parroting right-wing talking points about social programs that aid welfare recipients.

Then the rest of us made the point that your priorities are up the spout because you are overly focused on one kind of problem that isn't really a problem in most western societies.

The real problem is corporate welfare and the corporatist focus of our government.

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RE: Bush's Fiscal Pocies To Harm Next President - 6/16/2008 10:22:57 AM   
Irishknight


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight
Did I limit my statement?  I don't think so.  As I said, we have too many welfare dependant assholes out there sucking up our money on social programs.  I do believe that the things you mentioned are not exactly "social programs."  I'm sure you realized that before you posted though.


Yeah, we all realized perfectly well what you said. You were effectively parroting right-wing talking points about social programs that aid welfare recipients.

Then the rest of us made the point that your priorities are up the spout because you are overly focused on one kind of problem that isn't really a problem in most western societies.

The real problem is corporate welfare and the corporatist focus of our government.

You ASSUMED that you knew something.   You ASSUMED that you knew everything that I was tlking about.  You tried to make it into what you wanted so that you could appear more socially conscious than me.

Its another case of you wanting to prove your imagined superiority.  Meatcleaver said a similar thing without resorting to a lack of manners.  Thats called CONVERSATION instead of ACCUSATION.  Try it some time.

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RE: Bush's Fiscal Pocies To Harm Next President - 6/16/2008 10:25:20 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight
Did I limit my statement?  I don't think so.  As I said, we have too many welfare dependant assholes out there sucking up our money on social programs.  I do believe that the things you mentioned are not exactly "social programs."  I'm sure you realized that before you posted though.


Yeah, we all realized perfectly well what you said. You were effectively parroting right-wing talking points about social programs that aid welfare recipients.

Then the rest of us made the point that your priorities are up the spout because you are overly focused on one kind of problem that isn't really a problem in most western societies.

The real problem is corporate welfare and the corporatist focus of our government.


Yeah, you have to count the corporate lobbyists on "K" street in Washington who drive Mercedes Benzes and who's money all comes from aquiring Taxdollars for their "clients " many of whom are foreign countries looking for more "foreign aid" money or the "contractors" in Iraq who build schools and hospitals for $30,000 per sq. ft.
They steal FAR more than people on welfare could even think about.
It's in the hundreds of billions!
And no Irishknight to be fair you didn't limit your statement.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 6/16/2008 10:29:16 AM >

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RE: Bush's Fiscal Pocies To Harm Next President - 6/16/2008 10:40:05 AM   
shorty21


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Status: offline 		Social welfare isnt the problem. Hell I work 12 hours a day AND STILL NEED THE ASSISTANCE!!!! Tell me where this is supposed to be not so fucked up?? Tell me where corporate welfare fuckheads can get away with it and single mothers like me cant even pay our rent on 1100 dollars a month. We get the short end of the stick and corporate dickwads get a new mercedes for their wife every other week.
where the fuck is MY mercedes???? Where is my nice house and no worries??? It's not like I'm not trying here. Yes I know there are people who abuse the system, but heres the thing. In Iowa to recieve Rent assistance or section 8 (welfare housing) you either have to be receiving SSI/SSDI or have a job. That way they know your trying. In order to receive food stamops you either must be working but not make more the I think its 1345 for one person a month, or if you are homeless you MUST attend a class on job skills and searches withing the 3 months time limit and have a job within 6.

I say we hang their ass out windows....but...I've a temper..so...maybe hanging isnt the right way to go

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If i knelt before you with my heart in my hands...would you take my heart and break my body...or break my heart and take my body??

F*ck PMS... This bytch has PMDD!!!


Crazier than a cracked out squirrel on Adderall...

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RE: Bush's Fiscal Pocies To Harm Next President - 6/16/2008 12:30:53 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

A welfare dependant corporation should go out of business.  A welfare dependant human that can get a job should get off his/her ass and do so.  I see that the welfare system on the whole is abused and wasteful. 


...thanks for the clear answer. My position on this issue is that it's better to have a system which a few abuse but catches everyone in genuine need, rather than a system that is abuse-proof but lets some fall through the cracks. Sadly i don't think a modern beaurocracy is capable of creating a system that combines the best of both worlds, abuse-proof but catching everyone in real distress.

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RE: Bush's Fiscal Pocies To Harm Next President - 6/16/2008 12:47:10 PM   
OmegaG


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my personal expereince with welfare:  When I was pregnant and left to fend for myself, I applied and was approved same day.  Time goes by, I have the kid, I stay home with kid for a while.  I think to myself "self, it's time to get a job" so I call my case worker and ask about signing up for child care assistance (which is less money then I was recieving) to go back to work.  He suggests that I stay home with my kid until he goes to school since kids need their moms.  In a perfect world maybe, but my kids need to know how to be self-relient too, so I say no, I want to day care assistance.  It took 3 weeks to get approved, hours spend in the welfare office, documents proving that I could have a job (were I not sitting in their office) bla bla bla.  And for the 4 years after that I had to take a day off work every other month to go continue to prove that I needed the day care, a day I had to take without pay and they would not make an appointment timeframe so that I could get any work in that day.

Essentially, our system sucks.  It is designed to be attractive to those that don't wish to achieve any amount of independence, it's frustrating to those that are trying to gain even semi-independence and it breeds the people that IK speaks of.

It was designed with the best of intentions but it's now become a self-prepetuating beurocratic clog of a system that is way too big.  The entire systems main focus is keeping their own cushy jobs intact.

Yeah, government can cut.

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RE: Bush's Fiscal Pocies To Harm Next President - 6/16/2008 12:49:04 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: shorty21

Social welfare isnt the problem. Hell I work 12 hours a day AND STILL NEED THE ASSISTANCE!!!! Tell me where this is supposed to be not so fucked up?? Tell me where corporate welfare fuckheads can get away with it and single mothers like me cant even pay our rent on 1100 dollars a month. We get the short end of the stick and corporate dickwads get a new mercedes for their wife every other week.
where the fuck is MY mercedes???? Where is my nice house and no worries??? It's not like I'm not trying here. Yes I know there are people who abuse the system, but heres the thing. In Iowa to recieve Rent assistance or section 8 (welfare housing) you either have to be receiving SSI/SSDI or have a job. That way they know your trying. In order to receive food stamops you either must be working but not make more the I think its 1345 for one person a month, or if you are homeless you MUST attend a class on job skills and searches withing the 3 months time limit and have a job within 6.

I say we hang their ass out windows....but...I've a temper..so...maybe hanging isnt the right way to go


Shorty, you can place the blame for that squarely on the likes of "NAFTA", "GATT", "Free Trade" and this rediculous "global economy" crap.
Working people in this country should be making $20-$40 an hour by now.
What Washington and big corporations have done is to reduce the "value" of labor world-wide and put that "skim" in their own GREEDY pockets!

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RE: Bush's Fiscal Pocies To Harm Next President - 6/16/2008 1:18:11 PM   
orfunboi


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Status: offline 		you work 12 hours a day and only make 1100 a month...sounds like it's time to find new work. I hope they give you a hug before they screw, errr I mean pay you.

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RE: Bush's Fiscal Polcies To Hamper Next President - 6/16/2008 3:08:06 PM   
lronitulstahp


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Status: offline 		b-b-bb-bu--but...he has sooo many plans, and dreams...and spreading democracy to the huddled masses yearning to breathe free etc....
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/06/20080616-1.html

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RE: Bush's Fiscal Polcies To Hamper Next President - 6/16/2008 3:27:30 PM   
TieNTeas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub


The money has to come from somewhere -- if W/we receive tax cuts W/we should expect fewer government progams.
 
pinksugarsub




That article and none of the candidates have proposed any tax cuts.  Keeping the cuts in place doesn't change anything that has been in existance for the past 5-7 years.  Letting them expire, however, will result in the largest tax increase since WWII.  And this will have a huge impact on lower income earners who pay little or no taxes as a result of Bush's tax cuts.

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