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RE: League of Democracies? - 5/30/2008 7:45:52 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		WELL!  I neVERR!

A league of corporate-ocracies  is an idea.  yup an idea.   yup- just an idea.

Shall we pay the CEO well?  

democracy is a flawed idea.  any time an entity has more rights then human - then i say it is bad.   a corporation has NO RIGHTS.  a machine has NO RIGHTS.  a computer has NO RIGHTS.

humans tho- should have rights that trump any non human right.

The deck is so stacked it hardly matters if the communists or other groups get stronger.

Free markets?  gag me.   A Bear Stearn bail out is not a fee market.

the need for lawyers will grow.   the courts are stacked with judges that are corp shills, AND many contract YOU YOURSELF are IN, YOU AGREED to 'binding arbitration".
where the deck is even more stacked.


--yet another example of leageus  of hands in the family refrigerator, wallet, and coinage collection.   [gee a farbagle moment]

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RE: League of Democracies? - 5/30/2008 9:45:17 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Oh just WTF we need, another Giant beauracracy!
How much will this one cost us?
He should be talking about getting us out of the "U.N." and "Nato" not getting us involved in more B.S. that produces nothing!
One thing we *don't need* to be paying for is tens of thousands more college graduates sitting in offices doing secretarial tasks and writing memos to each other at $80k a year per.
He should be talking about getting us out of "NAFTA".
This is the time to be closing Embasseys and Consulates not opening more!

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RE: League of Democracies? - 5/30/2008 9:50:34 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

"With or without Moscow or Beijing's approval": how divisive of him. This shows that it's in McCain's populist interest to propagate the old East/West divide, as if Russia and China were less worthy than the club of "democracies" he's trying to form.

No, kittin, McCain is referring to the fact that Russia and China, as the two non-democratic permanenent members of the Security Council, have veto power over Security Council resolutions.  Rather frustrating for the promotion of democratic ideals when totalitarian types retain the right to tell you to shut up.


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RE: League of Democracies? - 5/30/2008 9:56:11 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

"With or without Moscow or Beijing's approval": how divisive of him. This shows that it's in McCain's populist interest to propagate the old East/West divide, as if Russia and China were less worthy than the club of "democracies" he's trying to form.

No, kittin, McCain is referring to the fact that Russia and China, as the two non-democratic permanenent members of the Security Council, have veto power over Security Council resolutions.  Rather frustrating for the promotion of democratic ideals when totalitarian types retain the right to tell you to shut up.



You corroborate my point: thanks for adding meat on that bone.

Remind me, who is McCain again? And since when was he in charge of 'promoting democratic ideals'?


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RE: League of Democracies? - 5/30/2008 9:58:58 AM   
meatcleaver


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Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		My problem is that western democracies don't really believe in democracy, they believe in capitalist democracy, rich man's democracy and every other type of democracy that doesn't believe in capitalist values are counted as something other than democracy. What McCain wants is everyone to believe in what America and its lapdog believes to be democracy. When people objected to the invasion of Iraq, they were disregarded,  lied to and then ignored when they refused to believe in the lies they were told. Let those that espouse democracy act as though they really believe in democracy, then such a policy might have some credibility.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 5/30/2008 10:01:32 AM >

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RE: League of Democracies? - 5/30/2008 10:01:34 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Hey wait, after he forms this giant beauraucracy we can form *another*giant beauraucracy (sp?) to counter-act this beauraucracy!
I wonder how many tens of $billions this will cost the U.S. Taxpayers?
And of course just like anything else we "join" we'll be expected to pay most of the cost, right?

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 5/30/2008 10:02:41 AM >

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RE: League of Democracies? - 5/30/2008 10:03:34 AM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		You mean like the United States large arrears due to the United Nations  ?

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RE: League of Democracies? - 5/30/2008 10:05:22 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

You mean like the United States large arrears due to the United Nations  ?


Kittin, that's what I mean.
If we don't pay our "dues" then they need to throw us out!

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RE: League of Democracies? - 5/30/2008 10:10:33 AM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		The USA won't leave the UN. It's not that the UN doesn't want to throw them out: it's that the USA are squatting there. They're like in-laws after a big Thanksgiving dinner: fat, and inflated, indolently digesting their food, sprawled out on the sofa.

But I don't want to hijack - McCain's goal in creating a League of Acceptable Nations is noble, and pure. He wants to propagate the democratic ideal, like his government is currently doing in Iraq. But I disgress  .

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RE: League of Democracies? - 5/30/2008 10:12:50 AM   
Leatherist


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Status: offline 		We can correct the united nations debt by calling in the UN debt all of those freeloading third world countries have not ponied up over the years.

Then we can call in the unpaid marshal plan debts for ww2 as well. It should be quite a handsome amount with 60 years interest tacked on. Then we can cut off foreign aid-including to iraq-and start taking it out of thier oil revenues instead-like tomorrow.

That should help balance the books nicely.



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RE: League of Democracies? - 5/30/2008 10:21:52 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		One thing I don't want is a president with "visions."
Bush talks to "God" don't you know!
I want an effective fiscal manager who knows how to cut waiste.
I'm a free man and I neither need nor want a "leader."
I don't know when or how this "leadership" crap started but it needs to stop!

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RE: League of Democracies? - 5/30/2008 11:06:06 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Remind me, who is McCain again? And since when was he in charge of 'promoting democratic ideals'?

John McCain, aka, the next President of the United States, Vietnam veteran, and citizen of the United States of America.

FYI, that last credential is the one that puts him "in charge" of promoting democratic ideals.  You might remember those ideals from high school government class....


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RE: League of Democracies? - 5/30/2008 11:07:20 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Bush talks to "God" don't you know!

Popeye, most people in this country talk to God.  That's not a bad thing.

The trouble generally starts when people start asserting that God talks back....


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RE: League of Democracies? - 5/30/2008 11:09:25 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

The USA won't leave the UN. It's not that the UN doesn't want to throw them out: it's that the USA are squatting there.

Yeah, the UN really wants to the see the US go away.....

Right....sure...uh huh....whatever you say, kittin.....


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RE: League of Democracies? - 5/30/2008 11:29:54 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		the UN building is going to be redone.  talk about expensive!!!

move the thing to China, let them deal with it.

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RE: League of Democracies? - 5/30/2008 12:41:48 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

No, kittin, McCain is referring to the fact that Russia and China, as the two non-democratic permanenent members of the Security Council, have veto power over Security Council resolutions.  Rather frustrating for the promotion of democratic ideals when totalitarian types retain the right to tell you to shut up.



Which Country has used the veto five times, the USA or China

Which Country has used the veto seventy nine times, the USA or China ?


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RE: League of Democracies? - 5/30/2008 12:46:07 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Why are the United States still sitting their fat arse on the UN Security Council and assorted United Nations meetings? Have you ever been inside the UN? American staff carry their weight around the place like there's no tomorrow. Trust me, America wants to stay there.

quote:



FYI, that last credential is the one that puts him "in charge" of promoting democratic ideals.  You might remember those ideals from high school government class....



"Ideals"  ? I wasn't subjected to propaganda at the lycee, so I have no idea what you're talking about as above. I did a course on the use of propaganda in history class, however: how extremely nutty, aye?


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RE: League of Democracies? - 5/30/2008 12:52:56 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		I cant see McCains idea taking off for several reasons. America, rightly or wromgly, have their own agenda on climate change, they also refused to sign this weeks banning of cluster bombs.

China and Russia wont sign to anything which doesnt suit them. McCain has spoken of leaving them out, but i dont see how of the worlds major powers, would stand by and watch the rest of the wrold act as they felt fit. The whole idea is exclusive, even if well intended.

Several Countries which would probably be included in a "League of Democracies"  such as Brazil, India and South Africa, have a history of being non interventionist. SA wont agree to any action being taken against Zimbabwe, for instence.

The UN, as an organisation, needs to look at how it operates as an organisation. The cold war rhetoric needs to end. The EU, China, Russia, and the US need closer co-operation.

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RE: League of Democracies? - 5/30/2008 1:03:00 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Gaining ground this political season is a proposed League of Democracies designed to strengthen support for the next president's overseas agenda and ensure a global leadership role for the United States.

"It could act where the U.N. fails to act," he said last month, and pressure tyrants "with or without Moscow's and Beijing's approval."



The problem with Democracy is every idiot and his dog thinks he has an opinion worth hearing. It's hardly a surprise when average leaders with ridiculous proposals, which, incidentally, are contrary to the principles of Democracy, are placed in a position of power.

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RE: League of Democracies? - 5/30/2008 1:15:22 PM   
FullCircle


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Status: offline 		Right for this project we need an invisible politician, a politician that never dies even if he has been shot to pieces, John Prescott can be Dr Jekyll and Hyde and Syawn Connery can be Allan Quatermain the 2nd.
 
Then we can make a movie it be class.

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 5/30/2008 1:25:31 PM >

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