heat pump? 4k ~? (Full Version)

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pahunkboy -> heat pump? 4k ~? (5/29/2008 7:09:29 AM)

Lets suppose you have 4k to do to your house.    It sounds like alot of money but not really.

I hear about heat pumps- but dont know enough even tho I have read up online. 

Next- geothermal intrigues me.  I seen it can be connected to well water.   Water rates in my town are set to rise. [in 5 years, not that they are cheap today]

Paying the mortgage down is not prudent.   Not when inflation is [in my mind 12%, NOT 4%]

The other idea I had was to add a bath -and sink - so that in the future this dwelling could be 2 units.

Selling is unlikely.  No one wants to live here.  Let alone pay for a place.

Meanwhile- "energy star" appliances sound good.  Ild like a high speed fan in the gable. I also thought of lattice board, shades, to deflect the direct sunlight.  On this- knowing electric rates go up 42%  Jan 1;  gas goes up 7%  [not counting taxes ON THE INCREASE]  Im thinking non-motorized ways to stay cool/warm- or use space in best possible way....

Lowes has lattice board.

I scored a bunch of white picket fencing on freecycle.

All ideas welcomed.

These funds are part of what is called a 'family savings account".   Save for 2 years, then it is matched;must be used for house, school, education or business.




Rule -> RE: heat pump? 4k ~? (5/29/2008 8:07:40 AM)

If it is two units, can you then rent out one? If so, then you may have a perpetual motion machine.




Termyn8or -> RE: heat pump? 4k ~? (5/29/2008 8:19:58 AM)

Heat pumps are not a good idea in your neck of the woods, we are too far north. Geothermal is a good idea almost anywhere but you are not going to build any kind of substantial sysem for four grand. You might get something if you completely design and build it yourself, but hiring anyone would kill the profit.

But there are things you can do. If you have an induced draft furnace (most are now) you can duct a source of outside air to it. Reason ? The thing puts so much out into the chimney or whatever flue you have that it causes a negative air pressure in the house. This is what makes drafts. You can do the same for your hot water tank and clothes dryer.

The effect on a small house can be significant, but is dwarfed in a larger abode.

Don't be a fool and part with your money soon. Weigh in all the options. Maybe it would be better spent on a more fuel efficient car. I don't want to be insulting, but I consider those Luminas to be shitcans, not that I wouldn't drive one or haven't, and not even that I wouldn't again. But the construction and just how it is, I think they are shitcans.

If you want some modicum of luxury in a car, bigger cars are not all that less efficient. But if you give up on the idea of luxury and like shitcans, a Honda might be a good buy. Gas is not going down. These days enough "foreign" cars are built here, and there are so many foreign parts in American cars that you are not betraying the country or anything.

When my Mother showed up years ago sporting her newly aquired Honda I was messing with her, you lucky you divorced buying a Jap car, she retorted "It was built in Tennessee". It was. Or was that VA ? doesn't matter.

We buy so much imported stuff now that the sale of one car is not significant.You have to think about what is important to you. This also depends on how much you drive, will the gas savings be worth it ?

I used to be able to put central AC in a house for less than two grand, but I haven't done it for awhile so I don't know what the prices are like now. Alot of times this requires a new furnace. That might help as well, but don't discount the efficiency of old furnaces unless they are not functioning at peak efficiency.

Roof in good shape ? Put a roof on it. Sounds silly on the surface but let me add this, put WHITE shingles on it. The lightest color you can get. Stark white that hurts your eyes would be the best to reduce cooling costs. Heating season it doesn't matter, if the house is properly insulated there should be a nice blanket of snow on the roof in the winter. Need I mention insulation ?

I did that last year and my heating bills stayed about the same, but wait, the rates went up. So what WOULD I have paid ?

There are many options, to be complete I would have to come over there and see the place. I know the money is burning a hole in your pocket, as well it should ! Believe it or not, that is true. Every fucking day it is worth a little bit less it seems. Anytime you can invest it and hedge against that it is good. Even better if you can make your money work for you.

Y'know Hunk, we were almost neighbors. A couple of years ago we looked (online, never went there) at a property in central PA. It had a bar with a valid liquor license, apartments over the top of that, and this huge barn. The price was incredibly low, I mean low enough to pay cash.

The family's money would be involved of course, so the bar would have to be operated for profit, but the barn was what attracted me. I envisioned a bed and breakfast because that would be a good way to get business in the semi-remote location. What's more I wanted to claim the upstairs of the barn for another private enterprise :-) The Upstairs, a dungeon. Oh, all them rafters and beams and shit, we don't need to build no goddam frames.

That little project, well I would have to pay rent, to the family, to the till, into the kitty, whatever you want to call it. But then there's a bar pretty much across the driveway, and if anything like a breakfast is dealt with it could be well stocked. And there is skiing relatively closeby.

By the time we saw the ad there was already an offer on the place, and I am sure it went. The price was so low that just getting a fresh liquor license would probably cost more. But it came with it.

Place had some potential, but someone beat us to it.

Sorry about the hijack, but really for someone like me to come in and figure out how best to insulate the house and all that would cost money. But if I lived down the road I might do it for a case of beer. The thing is, it could have happened.

T




pahunkboy -> RE: heat pump? 4k ~? (5/29/2008 1:47:27 PM)

I dont know what the time line is to use it up. I can access it in July.   It cant be used for a car.

Originally I thought I would document the cost of supplies- then get reimbursed.  But grant funds are very sticky.

The bank statement came today.  $1.42 in interest. [2k]  yipppee!   meanwhile the stupid  bounced check thing continues.  I did  convince my mortgage to reduce $150 down to $125.   I hate banks!

Trees that lose leaves are  good.  10% of cooling  per shade.  So Im taking a chance on the city easement. I scooped up maple tree saplings.  Planted a few.  This faces west. 
..I been pondering lattice board.  a 4x8 sheet is $10, 2x8 $6. It could serve as a buffer for noise fumes, and summer heat.  Even the unfinished stuff- Ild guess would last 5 yrs.  an outdoor straw shade maybe 3 yrs.

oh- i thought- "IF" i could get the grant paid to the portion of the mortage that




Leatherist -> RE: heat pump? 4k ~? (5/29/2008 1:59:26 PM)

Invest it in a small business and use it to make money on the side instead.




sub4hire -> RE: heat pump? 4k ~? (5/30/2008 6:20:32 AM)

Use the 4 grand to do something you'll enjoy.  If you're not in the market to raise the value to sell.
If you raise it significantly your property taxes will raise. 
How about a hot tub?  Sauna?  You know we own both and it is the best investment we have ever made.

We have a heat pump at this house.  People tell us they are the worst for heating around.  No idea...so far it works ok.  Keeps the house warm.  Yet I do see replacing it in a year or two.
I've noticed when I'm outside..the pump seems to almost have to think before it turns on.  When it does that...the electric races faster than I've ever seen a meter go.  Then the pump turns on and it slows itself. 
We just got home from a funeral in California.  I have a friend out there we visited with.  The state essentially paid for his new windows and air conditioner for his house.  Energy star and all that.  It may be a way to go.  They even installed his appliances for him.





Irishknight -> RE: heat pump? 4k ~? (5/30/2008 6:29:43 AM)

We installed a heat pump a little over a year before we left Iowa.  We had already had one major surgery done uder warranty before we moved.  It was caused by a rodent climbing inside and shorting out some of the electrical stuff but they still had to cover it. 




pahunkboy -> RE: heat pump? 4k ~? (5/30/2008 7:01:11 AM)

Some good replies - I thank you.

Weatherization was here a month ago.  [end of winter lol]   I seen the paperwork while the 3 men were working.  1k for materials- then 3 men for 2 days.  So this program is a good one.

A hot tub doesnt excite me- but the idea of something I enjoy is right on.

I almost hesitate- you know- anything you touch or do- the price of $100 is $342.68  and doesnt include blah blah.    In terms of real estate tax, no worries.  A room addition could make it higher- but 4k isnt enough for that.   If I figure out my new taxes-  based on the homeowner,rebate and casino- it doesnt get cheaper then $0.  [with those 3 components]

My hands are killing me.  I have been out in the yard-botanical garden all day working.  Also doing crime watch bike "patrol"- which I notice the trunk of my body pumping up- and my stamina improving.
In fact- while on patrol yesderday someone gave me a ceiling fan.  :-)   So by nighbfall Im all grubby-  very grubby. Horn honks- which happens alot,  here the fling popped in.   Bad me, should have asked him about a few electric outlets to fix.

Anyhow the yard- i get alot of complimnets on it. i am shaping the blue spruces to look pretty.  I should be out on the bike now.  2 major busts are coming up.  Those in CW are not to intervene.  Simply be seen around town.  I LOVE that I can DO something about my town!!!!




pahunkboy -> RE: heat pump? 4k ~? (5/31/2008 6:41:32 AM)

My back is wired fried.   2 days ago, I was in the yard/garden.  The front of the place- well weeds grow. It is sort of easement, but I am to maintain it. Last year, my first year here, I put endless amounts of weed killer on it.  [cost plenty]   Well as I was puttering, I noticed brick pavers.  So- I scraped more; and found more brick. It lies almost completely across the front. So scrape and remove dirt, = less weeds.  AND I can place this dirt in the yard to boost the low areas. :-)

Having planted 47 conifers/rose bushes,  I want to train the growth to be orderly.  Blue spruces trim up nicely. So- spending hours puttering - clipping, hoeing, edging, weeding, feeding, watering, planting, transplanting.  Spacing the flag stone. As well as configuring the zones of the yard.

I think I have 7 rose bushes.

The porch enclosure still isnt done.  I did buy some plastic- Im thinking of 2 types of insulation...

Next- clutter.  When I moved I moved junk.  Now sorting it abit.  Much of it SHOULD hit the garbage.  The town is having 1 free week of electronic reclying.  - i would freecycle it but- people say they will come and dont. So it would be easier to dump. Also i find that no matter what condition a free item is in; people still tend to act like they are BUYING the item.  [hence throw in all acessories]

Between my hands and back- the other day when I was cooking- I knocked the frying pan full of hamburger onto the kitchen floor rug.  [ a rug that has seen alot of wwork boot crime]  So I thru out 3/4 of it.

Older homes with plaster walls are a challenge to hang heavy mirrors or shelves.

Supposedly I am spanding less money this year.

Bill payer bizerk fees now $340.00 + $150 + $25 +25, with possibly more $50 to come.  Dont use Shwab bill payer.  The fees never end.  The customer service can not make the computer stop.  and yes I called, emailed, and wrote a postal letter.




sophia37 -> RE: heat pump? 4k ~? (5/31/2008 7:36:44 AM)

insulate insulate insulate!




Evility -> RE: heat pump? 4k ~? (5/31/2008 7:53:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
I hear about heat pumps- but dont know enough even tho I have read up online. 


I lived in PA for 20 years. Somehow I don't think heat pump salesmen are getting rich there. They are a viable option down here in the south but I'm not too sure how well suited they are for PA winters.




sub4hire -> RE: heat pump? 4k ~? (5/31/2008 10:53:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evility

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
I hear about heat pumps- but dont know enough even tho I have read up online. 


I lived in PA for 20 years. Somehow I don't think heat pump salesmen are getting rich there. They are a viable option down here in the south but I'm not too sure how well suited they are for PA winters.


What exactly is a PA winter?  Here in NE we go for months at -25 windchill.  Our heat pump works well.
However, I still wouldn't replace ours with another when it goes out.




pahunkboy -> RE: heat pump? 4k ~? (5/31/2008 12:17:42 PM)

PA gets nor-easters, which is the hurricane winds up the coast.  They can drop alot of snow.

Here in the valley-  - 10 is the lowest it goes.  [abit colder in higher elevations, but still PA is warmer then Chicago.]

I went to Lowes.  The lattice board looks too junky.    I did get some insulation.  :-)

Oh- I am sizing up gable fans.  I see extension cords are cheaper then 12-2 wire.

I see a circuit breaker is jammed.  I dont have 3-4 outlets.

Anyhow- ill need to put up the plastic, then the insulation.   r-13 is 25% off- must be the 106 feet.

everything is made so crapy.   the gable fan $82, might be worth it.




pahunkboy -> RE: heat pump? 4k ~? (5/31/2008 12:19:48 PM)

BTW- im glad the pick up truck is old.  it sure got beat up- hauling stuff for the house..

hmmm- months at - 25.  yikes.  i like the north- but that is abit extreme.




pahunkboy -> RE: heat pump? 4k ~? (6/1/2008 6:03:35 AM)

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ocs/afi/grantees/grantees05/05PAComEcon.html     <-- most states have this program.  In my state it doesnt effect other programs...

Term, on PA.   PA is a grey state. Only florida has more per capita of old farts.   Young people leave and never move back here.  Tho, IMO it is in the top 3 states for retired/disabled.    So the real estate; one wont get rich here, and you could very well be stuck with property for a very long time. Know any area that you buy. 

On the flip side -at least in my general area- the folks think they know what crime and curruption is.  They dont. Also- the law is strong here. They put deliquent child support dads in jail, the jail also assesses a room and board fee.  If you dont pay fees, court costs, fines, they actually put guys in jail here.  In fact, a bad check- can lead to jail.  Ringing someones phone in an attempt to harrass can be a $150 fine.  Locals understand this...but slickers from New York, Philly, Jersey, dont.  Until they get a surprise. Also- grudges in small towns can last for 20 years....

Anywho... yesderday I put up 1 peice of plastic on the porch, and temp layer 1 peice of r-13 insulation. 

This week- I should call the program boss, and learn if the 4k can be places on 15 monthly payments.

This week only the town has free elctronic recycling.   Before I dump junk, what do I want to extract from it??

I should hit the liquor store for sturdy boxes.  There is too much clutter in the living area.  So it needs to be thrown out, or put in basement.

When we get to 100 degree days...I am good for nothing.

I hope June is not as expensive as May was.  May cost $500+ extra.

Oh- electric useage.   Dormant plug ins can cause 40% of the bill. So I have been unplugging things.   We really need to pay attention to the watts used on every single item.  My last bill was cheap, $23. 

I was curious about different water heaters.  1.  I have 40 gallons the far end of house but near gas line.  Would it make sense to move it?  Solar could be good, or a 1/2 unit.  I am one person.  Also- if it was 2nd floor- heat rises, where as it is in the basement.   Here again, gas line is at far end....   any idea  ?




mnottertail -> RE: heat pump? 4k ~? (6/1/2008 6:14:45 AM)

get an on demand water heater.




Evility -> RE: heat pump? 4k ~? (6/1/2008 7:37:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire
What exactly is a PA winter?  Here in NE we go for months at -25 windchill.  Our heat pump works well. However, I still wouldn't replace ours with another when it goes out.


I didn't think there was enough heat outdoors in the wintertime up north for a heat pump to be a viable choice. I stand corrected. Odd that it works well for you but you would not replace it with another. Here in the south natural gas prices have risen markedly in the last decade. Having a heat pump in my last residence saved me money every winter season over heating my home with gas. Maybe gas is really cheap up north.




Termyn8or -> RE: heat pump? 4k ~? (6/1/2008 8:06:50 AM)

Ron, those things require PVC runs for both supply and flue, and a one inch gas line.

And sub probably does not want to replace the heat pump afte seeing the electric bill.

At this line of latitude we need gas with electric AC. If gas goes much higher then we need electric heaters to augment the central heat. If energy costs are going where I think they are going, zone heating will become more common. Why heat spare bedrooms, closets, attics and basements when you are not there ?

Other than a certain amount of heat to keep the plumbing from freezing, how much do you need ? My neighbor only turns on his heat from Thankgiving to Easter. The plumbing in his house is just fine.

T




sub4hire -> RE: heat pump? 4k ~? (6/1/2008 8:49:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evility



I didn't think there was enough heat outdoors in the wintertime up north for a heat pump to be a viable choice. I stand corrected. Odd that it works well for you but you would not replace it with another. Here in the south natural gas prices have risen markedly in the last decade. Having a heat pump in my last residence saved me money every winter season over heating my home with gas. Maybe gas is really cheap up north.


It works well for us..the reason we would not replace it with another is because everyone everywhere you go speaks bad about heat pumps.  Everyone except the heat pump manufacturuers trying to sell them in the first place.

We don't have gas...we live on a hill...our only utility is electricity.  My neighbor put in a sunken propane tank last winter...he has propane heat now.  He said it is a lot better.  Although I'm in his house a lot and I personally don't see the difference. 

What gets the rave reviews around here are the corn furnaces.  It uses no wood, burns real hot.  This last year or so they also came out with the little electric heater.  Maybe a foot tall...a foot wide.  Claims to warm an entire house.  It uses radiant heat versus the heat that has to be blown into the air.  They do work pretty decently..I've been in homes where people use them.  Only heats a room though..and a hefty price tag for a little portable electric heater.  They range in the mid 300's. 




pahunkboy -> RE: heat pump? 4k ~? (6/1/2008 10:43:14 AM)

I only heat 4 rooms.  [out of 12]  The highest bill, natural gas, $230. even still- high being I kept it at 62, and 53 for the overnight. This will sound odd,  if it gets too bad- i wondered  about sleeping in the cellar.

The pipe to the garden hose froze.   i will need to have a shut off installed.




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