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RE: Relationship Post Mortems? - 5/29/2008 3:49:15 AM   
lronitulstahp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fungasm

When your relationship ends, do you need "closure"? 

I know this will sound dreadful, but I would rather take out my spleen with a jagged fork than have to rehash everything that was wrong with a relationship. But I'm curious and I'd love to know what other folks think. 

Do you need to process?
After a relationship ends...i try to examine things on my own, or even may try to get a different perspective from a friend...but discussing all that went wrong or right with the ex-partner????  Nah!  i'm not that much of a masochist.  i find brooding rock stars and soul singers pretty much have all the answers.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIy5Cv0un9U

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RE: Relationship Post Mortems? - 5/29/2008 3:53:22 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		No I do not require closure.
Closure is for people who either like to feel they left a mark on someone or had no clue that their relationship was fucked in the first place.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Relationship Post Mortems? - 5/29/2008 4:02:31 AM   
kallisto


Posts: 1185
Status: offline 		Closure is when we say  goodbye and he goes one way and I go the other.   When it gets to that point, closure has already happened.    We don't need to discuss anymore how the relationship went south and what we "could have" done differently.    Life is too short to go backwards. 

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RE: Relationship Post Mortems? - 5/29/2008 4:11:40 AM   
daddysliloneds


Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline 		most times, when a relationship ends with me, there is no closure needed because we saw it coming and we go from being in a relationship, to being life-time friends...

then again, there's those couple of times where closure came swift, those were the times i said:  you are dead to me and my world, and i've meant it and stuck by it...

so nah, i suppose i'm not one of those types that needs closure.

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RE: Relationship Post Mortems? - 5/29/2008 4:35:10 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I have been hashing this one out in my mind lately....I  do need to know that things are OVER, instead of vaguely left to fade away.  In terms on analyzing the good and bad parts, that is for me to do on my own.  Deconstruction is a private thing for me, and my perception of what went on is not going to be the other person's.

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RE: Relationship Post Mortems? - 5/29/2008 5:15:46 AM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		I need to think and talk about things so yeah, I need some kind of closure.  Not necessarily from the other person.  My sister is really good at that, anyway. 

I think its unrealistic to expect that kind of conversation from a man though when I run accross one who has done the work of processing, I have a lot of respect for them.  It means they're capable of growth, learning and all that good stuff. 

The one's who just move on, and don't let things get to them, strike me as being sort of empty inside and cynical.  It's like they're afraid to be vulnerable.


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RE: Relationship Post Mortems? - 5/29/2008 5:36:25 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

The one's who just move on, and don't let things get to them, strike me as being sort of empty inside and cynical.  It's like they're afraid to be vulnerable.



I believe the difference in people who have some need for closure and myself is that all the relationships I have ever had bar one, never ended with bad feeling and I currently still have contact with I would say, 85%, as they are my friends.  I am currently going through divorce - absolutely with no bad karma.
So, you don't have to say goodbye and move on.   I'm far from empty inside, I have the best friends who know me intimately, a family that rocks and a Master whom I adore and who adores me.  And we could all sit around to christmas dinner and have a great time.
Yes I am cynical - closure is a selfish desire and not particularly healthy for everyone involved - and I tend to centre and focus on the whole picture rather than it's all about one person.
Vulnerable?  Absolutely, and anyone who loves and thinks they aren't?  Well, that's a bit naive.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Relationship Post Mortems? - 5/29/2008 6:19:35 AM   
pettingdragons


Posts: 421
Joined: 8/16/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fungasm
When your relationship ends, do you need "closure"? 
I know this will sound dreadful, but I would rather take out my spleen with a jagged fork than have to rehash everything that was wrong with a relationship. But I'm curious and I'd love to know what other folks think. 
Do you need to process?


they only process needed is the closure from ripping out ones own spleen.....

this is like many others things on life...its personal. Its all about what YOU need...not hundreds of others....there are some relationships that need closure and others that dont....
chalking it up to personal perferecne......*dont poke your eye out with the chalk*



anal retrival? A large lab going for the gerbil.......


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RE: Relationship Post Mortems? - 5/29/2008 6:22:51 AM   
gypsygrl


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From: new york state
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quote:

all the relationships I have ever had bar one, never ended with bad feeling and I currently still have contact with I would say, 85%, as they are my friends.


I haven't had all that many relationships.  At least not to the point where it makes sense to use quantitative measures (ie: 85%).  I've only had four, so it wouldn't make sense to talk in terms of percentages.

My guess is some of us, those of us who haven't had that many relationships, just haven't had the sort of opportunities to practice breaking up that would make one good at it.  Although, I'm not sure I'd want to be good at that sort of thing.  Its kind of like wanting to be good at getting into a car crash. :)  I think there's some things that its ok to do badly and without grace.

quote:

closure is a selfish desire and not particularly healthy for everyone involved


There's nothing wrong with being selfish, especially after a break-up when its likely that a person has set aside some of their selfishness for a while. 

And, while the process of achieving closure might involve unhealthy elements, for me at least, its part of an overall process of maintaining long term health.  Its kind of like how you have to get sick every now and again to build your immune system so it can fight off the really bad diseases.  Short term illness is part of maintaining good health.
  


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RE: Relationship Post Mortems? - 5/29/2008 6:59:20 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Ah, now see gypsy, your bitach is showing.
The reason I can quantify is because I don't have short term relationships, mine tend to last - the longest is way over 15 years - so that kind of indicates that I have had few relationships.
Seriously, you gonna make a dig at people who have more relationships than you have had and resemble them to a car crash?  Maybe you didn't mean that, but to some, it could read that way. This isn't a score card of .whoisthemostvirtuous.
 
I know that I would prefere good,healthy relationships and ends, regardless of the amount, to a single, fucked up and badly communicated one that ends with needing anything from something that has already gone and over.
 
That percentage doesn't include a beautiful person who passed away (I give him a bit of a percentage because I am open minded spiritually) nor the guy that decided to lift his fist to my face and ended doubled up on his knees instead.  So work that out of 100% if you are any good at math.
 
Your assumption that people are empty because they move on has no basis.  Do I take issue with it?  Yes, because by saying that you were including me as well as all those who are my friends and I know for a fact that you are wrong.  People need closure to make it feel as though they have had some sort of impact - similar to what LA said.  And when they have broken badly and have no idea why.
 
Now - whilst I totally agree that being selfish rocks and there is nothing wrong with that, when it impacts another who doesn't want it? - That is called being non consensual and is where you get stalkers and other mental anguish get involved.  Yes, closure rocks when everyone involved is happy with it - so in a sense, I guess I have always had 'closure' (if that is how you define it) because all my (limited) relationships have been open and easy to communicate in so I haven't had a need for closure, I got it automatically and I understand the impact I had on the lives I was involved with.  What a gift and I am blessed.
 
But taking digs at people who have had multiple relationships and resembling them to car crash and being 'good at breaking up'? or those who have the ability to move on as empty inside?  Bad show.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Relationship Post Mortems? - 5/29/2008 7:03:30 AM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		No , because some relationships have ended way before those involved know it did. Things happen, I do not feel the need to relive it and find closure. Closure to me is when it is over and I realize that and move on. We always after the fact see the signs it was over but are blind to see that sometimes.

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RE: Relationship Post Mordems? - 5/29/2008 7:25:30 AM   
Evility


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeMeSmile4U
I need the closure.  If I am the dumper I try to be pretty clear about why it didn't work for me (and how it never will work so he doesn't ask later if we can try again).  Recently I was the dumpee and his 'reasons' for ending it were nothing more than excuses.  It makes me nuts not knowing the truth since things seemed just fine 3 days earlier.  But that's me... I tend to overthink everything anyway.


But at the same time he may have thought he was being pretty clear while you saw nothing but excuses. This is the problem with the closure discussion. Any response has to meet with the other party's approval to be deemed valid.

I can examine the relationship post mortem and come up with my own closure if I need any - and that isn't often. Usually the patient displays significant enough symptoms while still alive to allow an accurate diagnosis. There is usually no real need to do any Quincy-esque autopsy afterward.



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RE: Relationship Post Mortems? - 5/29/2008 7:28:15 AM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
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quote:

Ah, now see gypsy, your bitach is showing.


I'm going to go ahead and ignore this comment because it strikes me as being uncalled for. 

quote:

Seriously, you gonna make a dig at people who have more relationships than you have had and resemble them to a car crash?  Maybe you didn't mean that, but to some, it could read that way.


Right.  I didn't mean that.  I was speaking from my own experience and perspective.  I used the phrase "those of us" including myself in the group of people who don't have a lot of relationship experience to draw on and thus don't necessarily do break ups gracefully.  I wasn't talking about others with alot of relationship experience.  The car crash comment was just me reflecting on whether or not there was really a problem in doing crash and burn style break ups--I was thinking that its probably one of those things thats a part of life.  Break ups, like car crashes, are hard and its ok not to always be graceful during one.  I think I was pretty clear in this, though I understand that others might mis-read what I was getting at.

quote:

Your assumption that people are empty because they move on has no basis.


I didn't say they were empty, and I wasn't assuming anything.  I said "strike me as being empty."  Again, I'm speaking from my perspective and experience.

quote:

People need closure to make it feel as though they have had some sort of impact -


This strikes me as a huge assumption particularly since it's written as a general empiracle claim.  Others, including myself, have put forth other perspectives on the need for closure.  LA's is certainly a plausible, and I'm sure some people's need for closure comes from such a desire, but I real would hesitate to make such a generalization.  I mean, serioulsy, I would need to see a lot of systematic research backing up such a generalization before accepting it, especially in light of the fact that others have a different take on it.  My guess, and its only a guess, is that the need for closure varies depending on the person needing closure.

quote:

That is called being non consensual and is where you get stalkers and other mental anguish get involved.


I've been on the receiving end of this kind of neediness, and agree completely.  In some cases, the need for closure  takes really disturbing forms.

quote:

But taking digs at people who have had multiple relationships and resembling them to car crash and being 'good at breaking up'? or those who have the ability to move on as empty inside?  Bad show.


I think you were looking for something that wasn't in my post and jumped on it.  I hope I clarified things.  If not, so be it.



< Message edited by gypsygrl -- 5/29/2008 7:29:24 AM >

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RE: Relationship Post Mortems? - 5/29/2008 7:48:16 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

quote:

Ah, now see gypsy, your bitach is showing.


I'm going to go ahead and ignore this comment because it strikes me as being uncalled for. 


As you wish. As some say, ignorance is bliss.
Yes I understand that I sound judgemental.I am.

quote:

quote:

Seriously, you gonna make a dig at people who have more relationships than you have had and resemble them to a car crash?  Maybe you didn't mean that, but to some, it could read that way.


Right.  I didn't mean that.  I was speaking from my own experience and perspective.  I used the phrase "those of us" including myself in the group of people who don't have a lot of relationship experience to draw on and thus don't necessarily do break ups gracefully.  I wasn't talking about others with alot of relationship experience.  The car crash comment was just me reflecting on whether or not there was really a problem in doing crash and burn style break ups--I was thinking that its probably one of those things thats a part of life.  Break ups, like car crashes, are hard and its ok not to always be graceful during one.  I think I was pretty clear in this, though I understand that others might mis-read what I was getting at.


Thank you for clearing that up. As I said, it could have been misunderstood and I certainly did.

quote:

quote:

Your assumption that people are empty because they move on has no basis.


I didn't say they were empty, and I wasn't assuming anything.  I said "strike me as being empty."  Again, I'm speaking from my perspective and experience.


Whether it strikes you and it's your persepctive it is still an assumption and one I was using myself as an example, wasn't correct.

quote:

quote:

People need closure to make it feel as though they have had some sort of impact -


This strikes me as a huge assumption particularly since it's written as a general empiracle claim.  Others, including myself, have put forth other perspectives on the need for closure.  LA's is certainly a plausible, and I'm sure some people's need for closure comes from such a desire, but I real would hesitate to make such a generalization.  I mean, serioulsy, I would need to see a lot of systematic research backing up such a generalization before accepting it, especially in light of the fact that others have a different take on it.  My guess, and its only a guess, is that the need for closure varies depending on the person needing closure.


Yes it is a generalisation and one I am comfortable making.  It is one reason of many.

quote:

quote:

That is called being non consensual and is where you get stalkers and other mental anguish get involved.


I've been on the receiving end of this kind of neediness, and agree completely.  In some cases, the need for closure  takes really disturbing forms.


Absolutely.

quote:

quote:

But taking digs at people who have had multiple relationships and resembling them to car crash and being 'good at breaking up'? or those who have the ability to move on as empty inside?  Bad show.


I think you were looking for something that wasn't in my post and jumped on it.  I hope I clarified things.  If not, so be it.


I continued debate on your words and what they opened. It's all cool.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Relationship Post Mortems? - 5/29/2008 7:58:12 AM   
OmegaG


Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		I've learned that I have a finite amount of energy and time in this life.  I can spend it negatively, focussing on the past and trying to get someone to come to my paradigm which I think is useless since they didn't when we were working on a relationship, of I can take that energy, focus on the possotive and the future.

This doesn't mean that I slip on binders and pretend that everything is always perfect and that I am blameless in the disintigration of the relationship, I do take personal and private time to reflect my own part.  But to have a face-to-face with someone who doesn't see from my personal perspective is counter productive to my happiness.  So I make a mental list of what worked and what I'd like in future relationships and what didn't and I wish to avoid in the future.  Most of my relationships have been learning experiences and I believe that each failed relationship has made me a better partner to be with.

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RE: Relationship Post Mortems? - 5/29/2008 8:01:36 AM   
KatyLied


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From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

When your relationship ends, do you need "closure"?


Sometimes I need closure.  But I do not depend on the other person to provide it for me.  And I also don't turn it into an obsessive, epic trip down memory lane.  The best thing you can do is understand the level of integrity and seriousness you brought to the relationship and let it go from there.  It's not useful to try to psychoanalyze the other person.  If all else fails, treat yourself to something fun and call it your closure or goodbye.


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RE: Relationship Post Mortems? - 5/29/2008 8:14:48 AM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline
quote:

Yes I understand that I sound judgemental.I am.


Ok.  We're different here.  I'm pretty slow to form judgements and wouldn't come to any firm conclusions about a person without taking a lot of time. 

quote:

Whether it strikes you and it's your persepctive it is still an assumption and one I was using myself as an example, wasn't correct.


An assumption implies that one has come to a conclusion about something.  Its rare that I ever reach the point of having come to a conclusion.  I think along the lines of 'working hypotheses,' any of which is subject to correction.  As far as I'm concerned, the verdict is usally still out and I'm always open to rethinking things.

quote:

Yes it is a generalisation and one I am comfortable making.  It is one reason of many.


I'm not sure what you're getting at here.  If 'it is one reason of many' it can't also be a generalization.  Generalizations exclude multiplicity. 

But, yeah, its all good.


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RE: Relationship Post Mortems? - 5/29/2008 8:33:36 AM   
cantilena


Posts: 224
Joined: 8/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fungasm

When your relationship ends, do you need "closure"? 

I know this will sound dreadful, but I would rather take out my spleen with a jagged fork than have to rehash everything that was wrong with a relationship. But I'm curious and I'd love to know what other folks think. 

Do you need to process?


I quite agree with someone who posted earlier that this can largely depend on the time involved in the relationship.  The needs for 'processing' following the split of a 20 year relationship vs a 2 month relationship would be incomparably different.

In all but a single past relationship, I've maintained civility and an ability for future communication (if not outright friendship.)  But that's just me.  I have close friends going through the fallout of betrayal of such magnitude that the 'processing' has taken years, and will likely continue further still.

In the end, my own opinion is that needs for closure and processing depend solely upon individuals and - maybe more importantly - upon the relationships themselves and how those relationships ended.  I don't think there's a set answer.

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RE: Relationship Post Mortems? - 5/29/2008 8:33:46 AM   
metalmiss


Posts: 341
Joined: 5/4/2005
From: Croydon, UK
Status: offline 		i needed closure with my last relationship, lots of it. But that was because of the amount of psychological abuse that person had inflicted over 2 years of systematically breaking down everything that i was before.

Previously, no.. i didn't need closure per se, it was sufficient for me to just walk away and move on. But then i think that need and want is not only completely individual in how it manifests itself in each of us, but also specific to each relationship within that.
In my experience, every relationship has been completely different and invoked a similarly different level of connection with that partner, which will in turn lend itself to different needs where "the end" is concerned.

For me, closure isn't about giving the other grief, or wanting to just lay it all out on the table.. i had very strong emotional ties to my ex, alot of parts of me even after i left found it incredibly difficult to let go. For me it was about overcoming the damage he had done, cutting those ties & seeing him for what he was before i could finally let go completely and move on.

As for rehashing the wrong or bad parts and processing what happened, i find that incredibly useful.. Not to relive or over-analyse the smallest of details, but to look back generally and work out *my* mistakes aswell as his, the signs i missed and the lessons *i* can take from that about myself & what i do (or don't in this case) seek in a Partner.


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RE: Relationship Post Mortems? - 5/29/2008 8:40:42 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
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quote:

Ok.  We're different here.  I'm pretty slow to form judgements and wouldn't come to any firm conclusions about a person without taking a lot of time. 


Well, again we would disagree.

quote:

An assumption implies that one has come to a conclusion about something.  Its rare that I ever reach the point of having come to a conclusion.  I think along the lines of 'working hypotheses,' any of which is subject to correction.  As far as I'm concerned, the verdict is usally still out and I'm always open to rethinking things.


An assumption is based on not knowing facts and seeing situations from the sidelines and hypothesising.
It is a propostion.  And again, it's all cool.

quote:

quote:

Yes it is a generalisation and one I am comfortable making.  It is one reason of many.


I'm not sure what you're getting at here.  If 'it is one reason of many' it can't also be a generalization.  Generalizations exclude multiplicity. 


In other words, there are many reasons, and that generalisation is one of many.
 
the.dark.



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