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Take it all..Give it all - 5/27/2008 6:18:42 AM

MladyHathor

Posts: 510
Joined: 4/6/2008
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I know this isn't new and I hope I can frame this succinctly because I see a growing trend in avarice and desparation. ( I speak only of alledged Dominas and male subs, yet I am sure the reverse exists)--ok someone new comes along, or some sub seeking--our advice always is: get involved in the local community---meet in real time--heh, that isn't a guarantee--just in the past several weeks here---we have seen someone robbed by an alledged Domina--I know of one who met two local community Dominas who damn near beat him to death--and still another who is a Mistress of Avarice---

There has to be a balance somewhere---many of the subs I see these days are flat assed lonely--they didnt make the first vanilla go round and for whatever reason this is their salvation--and bless their hearts they open the jugular and give it all--to someone who could not care less about them--on the other side I see the fangs---WTF?? ( and this is after all the prelims we preach about)---net is there are no guarantees--but what drives someone to give all and someone under the cover of Dominance to think they can take all?? What have some become?

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The Mistress Hathor, always and forever, much to the disdain and discomfort of others.

Post #: 1

RE: Take it all..Give it all - 5/27/2008 6:27:29 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
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I think it's funny when people say "get involved in your local community". The local communities near my geography as nothing but meat markets. That was obvious to me when I made the mistake of joining a yahoo listserve for one of them years ago.

There is a fine line between blaming bad dominants and blaming the victims (poor lil submissive). People should take responsibility for their actions. If someone is dumb enough to empty their heart and savings account too early in a relationship I don't have much sympathy for them.

I think we should address why WIITWD seems to rob many people of logic and common sense.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to MladyHathor)

Post #: 2

RE: Take it all..Give it all - 5/27/2008 6:33:58 AM

MladyHathor

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Joined: 4/6/2008
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quote:

I think we should address why WIITWD seems to rob many people of logic and common sense.

Katy, you have said in a few words what I tried to say--and this is bang on--what changes in WIITWD versus what we would do "out there".

_____________________________

The Mistress Hathor, always and forever, much to the disdain and discomfort of others.

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 3

RE: Take it all..Give it all - 5/27/2008 6:34:50 AM

madshysoul

Posts: 105
Joined: 2/25/2008
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Good question....

I don't know that I would say they've 'become' anything really. There are predators in our world just as there are predators in the vanilla world. Part of becoming a full member of the BDSM world is learning to develop the nut-job radar.

As to the other side, what drives someone to turn off the voice in the back of their head going, "This is a bad idea.", that's a harder one. Lonelieness, desperation, repeating past disfunctional relationships (Now New and Improved! With floggers!) I"ve seen folks new to the lifestyle that haven't yet developed their psycho-radar unable to discern the difference between, "I like to be humiliated, please embarass me in public." and actual emotional abuse. (IE, the bad-side of "She beats me because she loves me.) Then you add on the fact that with internet communications, it's far too easy to build a perfect fantasy in your head, and ignore the warning signs in person in favor of clinging to that unreality.

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(in reply to MladyHathor)

Post #: 4

RE: Take it all..Give it all - 5/27/2008 6:47:47 AM

sweetnurseBBW

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From: North Carolina
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Most that make poor decisions in wiitwd make bad decisions in other aspects of their life too. Like Katy said people have to learn to take responsibility for their own actions and stop playing the victim all the time. Common sense applies as much to being a sub/slave as it does to any other part of ones life.

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(in reply to MladyHathor)

Post #: 5

RE: Take it all..Give it all - 5/27/2008 6:49:47 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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It's loneliness that brings people to ignore red flags, warnings from their guts. I'm soprry for people who are that lonely but this isn't the cure.

Learning to make friends is. And that requires the help of a therapist.

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(in reply to sweetnurseBBW)

Post #: 6

RE: Take it all..Give it all - 5/27/2008 6:52:03 AM

KatyLied

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From: Pennsylvania
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I also think it helps if people broaden their lives beyond making their first and most important goal one of finding a partner (or date or encounter or whatever you call it). Do things you enjoy, hobbies, volunteering, filling your time in meaningful ways that don't include obsessing over a relationship.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 7

RE: Take it all..Give it all - 5/27/2008 7:23:54 AM

CreativeDominant

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Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I also think it helps if people broaden their lives beyond making their first and most important goal one of finding a partner (or date or encounter or whatever you call it). Do things you enjoy, hobbies, volunteering, filling your time in meaningful ways that don't include obsessing over a relationship.

Good point, Katy. In the last 9 years, since the break-up of my marriage, I have spent a lot of time at the office. But I have also gotten back into exploring the many different types of music I enjoy, reading, working on my hot rods, riding motorcycles and working towards having one of my own, etc., etc.. That way, even when something is going wrong, I can actually have my hands busy doing something else while I mull things over in a "stand-by" type of mode or, if they won't leave my head completely, I can turn my mind to my seminar preparation or to reading in order to force those thoughts...at times when they have become repetitive and a solution is not forthcoming...from my head.

I want a relationship. I thrive when I am in one. But I also thrive when I am not. That sounds cold to some people but anyone who knows me and has been involved in a relationship with me...whether as a friend, a casual lover/D-s partner, or as a serious lover/D-s partner will tell you that I do not leave them feeling neglected but that I do not obsess over them.

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 8

RE: Take it all..Give it all - 5/27/2008 7:31:30 AM

lanie38

Posts: 120
Joined: 9/14/2007
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~FR~I agree that loneliness can breed desperation, and that is very sad and comes with it's own set of consequenses. And shame on people who consciously take advantage of someone in that vulnerable state, but it certainly doesn't devoid the desperate of their responsibility for their poor choices and decisions.

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Don't be so humble...you're not that great. ~ Golda Meir

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 9

RE: Take it all..Give it all - 5/27/2008 7:43:02 AM

RuleMyWorld

Posts: 15
Joined: 4/9/2008
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I will say that on my part, submissaion is a very erotic sexual thing, and, possibly for most of us subs out there the feelings are mutual. We get aroused by the very thought of submitting which leads us to have our clear thinking clouded. As with any supply and demand items, D/s being one of them, the scales of balance are weighed in the D's favor, as evidenced by the plethora of pro dommes out there. Whenever a demand is created, the bottom feeders come out to exploit for their own benefit, knowing if they lay in wait, eventually someone will take the bait. Desperation will cause someone to "cave" and abandon their better judgment. There is a lonely aspect to searching for a domme or play partner, even more so than in the vanilla world. From my experience there are many more rejections from WIITID (what it is that I do) than in the vanilla dating scene. I have gotten desperate for submission and have done whatever I could do to experience that rush (kind of like an addict, I guess) It's a minefield out there, with so many bottom feeders we need to keep out thinking clear and be aware, listen to our gut feelings and be warned by the red flags. I have written many well thought out letters of introduction without even so much as a reply. Thank you to those that have the courtesy to reply with nice correspondence, thank you to those I have met......and to all you dommes out there, I know you must be innundated with worthless emails, but now I only write a short paragraph to determine interest, the many non-responses I have gotten have brought me to this.....and unfortunately sometimes to desperation!.....and the circle keeps on turning! Good luck everyone!

(in reply to MladyHathor)

Post #: 10

RE: Take it all..Give it all - 5/27/2008 7:50:21 AM

ToysAndTies

Posts: 124
Joined: 5/20/2007
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Most directly to the topic: people that are reckless with their hearts and wallets unfortunately deserve whatever loss befalls them, however, it is unfortunate that love, desire, and trust make people just as reckless as desperation, loneliness, and naivite.

People get so caught up in the role-play of all this that they forget the other party is also only human. A Domme in shiny black leather with high laced up boots may be behind on her rent payments and willing to take on any "slave" that will get her out of that hole. Having a goal makes people see life in terms of reaching that goal: right now, it's grad school, so I look at a lot of hobbies and things in terms of "is this helping me prepare for grad school". If someone's goal is merely to "find someone" you will, regardless of how well-suited that person is for you.

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 11

RE: Take it all..Give it all - 5/27/2008 8:28:34 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
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BDSM attracts the fringe and the fringe is always a dangerous place for the witless, nothing new there, I would bet there is a 2,500 year old Greek play about it.

I think the only difference is that the internet allows for a larger fringe and a faster way of finding it.

Kati, I still say "seek out your local group" because it almost always beats out "find some nut in a closet" as far as the averages play out. Plus many groups don't even HAVE email lists because they collect idiots and repel people like you. They are breeding grounds for egos and assholes, one true way and my submission is deeper than yours nitwits.

That is why I recomend books, all but the worst, if actually read, will expand someone's horizons at least enough for someone with 1/2 a brain to realize "Mr UberLordMasterDom" is a fucking moron. However, those with 1/4 and 1/3 brains are still fucked.

Just look at this place. How many hot 18 women who are either lesbians or want to be chained in your basement do you really believe exist but a casual search shows a buttload with one picture. The lesbians are usually "friended" by all the other fake 18 year old chicks. Same goes for the "sister slave" looking for a woman the master might actually want. They are a combination of ugly chicks who the master can't wait to dumb, fake pictures but actually guys, and a few real ones.

The problem with all this is when you are blind to it, you just can't see it and once you do it leaps out at you. Just like the good advice your parents gave you, at the time you couldn't see it made sense because it sounded stupid as hell.

(in reply to ToysAndTies)

Post #: 12

RE: Take it all..Give it all - 5/27/2008 8:31:19 AM

Leatherist

Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline

This is why I always tell people that gettting involved in "communities" is no better than trying online. There are just as many, if not more predatory sorts on the flesh world than here-the big difference in real life being-they can do you a lot more physical and mental damage.

As far as why they get away with it-they hide behind the cloak of "tolerance for thier kinks".

If we collectively had the stones to call these assholes on thier bullshit and cut them OFF-there would be a great deal less of it going on.

_____________________________

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(in reply to ToysAndTies)

Post #: 13

RE: Take it all..Give it all - 5/27/2008 8:51:30 AM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

I am not wildly thrilled with my local community, either. But I DO think that getting out from behind the computer screen is the most effective way of hooking up with another creature with a pulse. I meet people on the internet all the time~~this site has been very good for that~~ but I move from chatting to MEETING as fast as I can if I like how the initial convos go.

Regarding outing the dangerous in their communities--don't ge tme started. Until the robbed and assaulted actually pony up and file police reports, nothing will happen. Because all those bad stories are GOSSIP, don't ya know! And we don't want to spread any of THAT now do we?

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(in reply to Leatherist)

Post #: 14

RE: Take it all..Give it all - 5/27/2008 8:54:09 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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I could be wrong, but I don't recall either of the examples given as people who met at either a munch or some other community related activity. That being said, I think the advice of 'get to know people in your kink community' still stands. The last time I checked, I haven't seen anyone getting ripped off or beaten to a pulp in a restaurant while getting to know other people. There's a huge difference between meeting people at organized events and setting up risky meetings with people that you don't know for play.

Suggesting that people go out to their local community to meet people has never replaced the theory that one should use their own head once they have done so. Sure, a person could go to a munch and decide to throw caution to the wind for anything they do afterward, but I really think that's on them. A little personal responsibility goes a long way.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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(in reply to Leatherist)

Post #: 15

RE: Take it all..Give it all - 5/27/2008 9:18:52 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

This is why I always tell people that gettting involved in "communities" is no better than trying online. There are just as many, if not more predatory sorts on the flesh world than here-the big difference in real life being-they can do you a lot more physical and mental damage.

Sorry but this is complete bullshit, okay not complete bullshit, there are predators in both but the percentage is far lower in communities than outside of them. Also, as long as people like yourself refuse to become involved in your local scene, it will tend to remain as bad as yours seems to be.

Mine sucked when I entered, it was a harem for one man and a few friends, it was "real people are poly so I can fuck/mentor your wife". Today, it is relationship oriented, open and supportive of several different groups, the gay and straight groups actually do things together. WHY? Because people refused to disapear like I did and stepped in and fixed things.

In San Francisco, one couple is almost single handedly forcing D/s back into the scene, creating events and parties that celebrate it.

I don't worship the scene, I rail against shit all the time, I am very much a gadfly. It is FAR from perfect but oh my god is it amazing at the same time. Now I am talking about larger communities with multiple groups which makes things easier but at the same time harder to influence.

I created a group out of thin air when there was only one. The sort of people I wanted flocked to and the sort I didn't stayed in the old group. It was a lot of work, a pain in the ass, but good people stepped up and made it happen. Lots of whining, lots of egos, but we did it and today that group is amazing, it is run without much whining, egos are surpisingly absent, and is about as good as scene groups get. Perfect? No. Better than online? Hell yeah! Are there predators? Well, assholes certainly, predators, well see below.

quote:

If we collectively had the stones to call these assholes on thier bullshit and cut them OFF-there would be a great deal less of it going on.

I want to start a discussion about standards in another thread but I very much agree with you on this sentiment.

(in reply to Leatherist)

Post #: 16

RE: Take it all..Give it all - 5/27/2008 9:29:28 AM

cantilena

Posts: 224
Joined: 8/6/2007
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People need to realize that the local community is nothing more than a group of folks with a common (baseline) interest. It doesn't mean that the love of your life is automatically in attendance, just as he or she isn't necessarily in attendance at, say, a photography class.

Even so, it still makes sense that if you want to meet people interested in photography, by all means take the class. If you want to meet people interested in BDSM... attend a munch. Common sense, that. It's the *expectation of anything more* than meeting like-minded people in general that needs to be checked.

As for lonely people (I suspect it includes a very fair percentage of Doms as well as subs...), I personally am not convinced the stats for being taken advantage of are all that different than in vanilla dating. Desperation is desperation and anyone ready to project their fantasy onto reality is vulnerable - regardless of what that fantasy may happen to be.

{{edited to note that I have no idea why this "replies" to LadyPact rather than just a standard reply. The post is intended for general thoughts, not a specific reply.}}

< Message edited by cantilena -- 5/27/2008 9:35:36 AM >

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 17

RE: Take it all..Give it all - 5/27/2008 9:33:54 AM

cantilena

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Joined: 8/6/2007
Status: offline

Double post now?? lol... I think I took a dose of clueless today.

< Message edited by cantilena -- 5/27/2008 9:35:00 AM >

(in reply to cantilena)

Post #: 18

RE: Take it all..Give it all - 5/27/2008 9:48:30 AM

stella41b

Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

It's loneliness that brings people to ignore red flags, warnings from their guts. I'm soprry for people who are that lonely but this isn't the cure.

Learning to make friends is. And that requires the help of a therapist.

Oh right.. And just because someone happens to be alone, that makes them dysfunctional or retarded does it?

People make mistakes, and like it or not, people are subject to stupidity. No prevention, no therapy, no cure.

But I'll leave it to the rest of you to argue among yourselves who is going to cast the first stone.

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(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 19

RE: Take it all..Give it all - 5/27/2008 9:59:12 AM

MladyHathor

Posts: 510
Joined: 4/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

It's loneliness that brings people to ignore red flags, warnings from their guts. I'm soprry for people who are that lonely but this isn't the cure.

Learning to make friends is. And that requires the help of a therapist.

Oh right.. And just because someone happens to be alone, that makes them dysfunctional or retarded does it?

People make mistakes, and like it or not, people are subject to stupidity. No prevention, no therapy, no cure.

But I'll leave it to the rest of you to argue among yourselves who is going to cast the first stone.

Well, I am going to stand tall here, I am lonely, I so want the company of someone finally--but most of the time I simply don't let that over ride My common sense and My sense of protection ( may be its the ex cop, maybe its the Mom, I don't know)--but that does not drive Me to be nutso psycho--have I made mistakes searching? yeah did it cost Me money- a tad--(well yeah one did-and I am a picky bitch)--- did I learn----yeah! Am I still lonely--yeah---is that ever again clouding My judgement--NO. You're right Stella we all make mistakes, is it that some people just don't learn?

_____________________________

The Mistress Hathor, always and forever, much to the disdain and discomfort of others.

(in reply to stella41b)

Post #: 20

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