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D/s slide rulers - 5/24/2008 5:27:30 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		There are a few divided views on this subject. Yes, I have been ponding some deep thoughts lately.  The Differences between the high level M/s relationship, D/s (not the same as M/s), compared to the Twisted Kinky Vanilla, and the one Dom Couple relationship I was in.  Please know, I do not wish to offend anybody here.  This is my own perspective on matters, my pov is rather biased according to my own life's journey.  This topic is a bit of a spin off from the "shaping and molding" thread I had started. 

M/s relationship, how to best describe this one, was not something forced nor actually very difficult (ironic as this might sound to some people).   When you live with somebody who wants to, and desire the most to be your anything, everything you need and want.  In many regards self improvement for her, was how to better serve, be of more use and knowing what she needed to work on to make it happen.  It did feel literally like having clay in my hands in the purest sense because of the level of submission and her own desire.  This is a desire that far goes beyound sex, fucktoys, kinks... all the crazy shit we do with one another.  To be so bold, you could toss all that shit aside and still the M/s dynamic would be there.

The D/s and Twisted Kinky Vanilla's, those have been diverse and interesting in themselves, still not on the same level nor comparable fully (only partly) to my M/s experience.   It's a blur, and I'm going have to openly side with DarcyandtheDark, that there really is no such thing as Vanilla (at least in the purest sense of how we all like to think at times).   Actually, I don't ever recall having lived fully a Vanilla life per se,  I have tried to be fit into Some Image I had of being "vanilla", really did not work out so well.   

I honestly wish I could say, Gee... my D/s and Twisted Kinky Vanilla relationships were "Equalitarian" ones.  Just partial exchanges of Authority with various degrees of limits.  D/s was a bit of a moving slide ruler throughout the course of these relationships.   OMG, Yes, I just said D/s was a bit of moving slide ruler!   Trust me, not the same as M/s.  Mind you, I am simply expressing matters from my own personal experiences, and not anybody elses.

I have only had what I consider as one true "Equalitarian" relationship, that was with somebody who will always be dear and close to my heart.   It was a Dom Couple relationship though!  No D/s... or in this case BS, of slide rule D/s.   This relationship was on par with my M/s relationship in terms of clarity of understanding and being able to work in unison.  (for the most part).  Again, these relationship were not perfect.   However, there was a hell of a lot less struggle and bullshit involved.  At least for me personally.

Shaping and Molding in the DOM power couple relationship. Yes, it did happen.  Two Dominants pushing one another!  Yes, I said Pushing.   There's another word with negative connotations - pushing.  Challenging, testing, whatever other words you can think up.  We kept each other on our toes.  However, for the most part the Slide ruler D/s was kept shoved away some place.   I sincerely believe if anybody is seeking an "Equalitarian" equal footing relationship to explore Dom Couple dynamics.  I'm not an expert on the subject.

Personally, I'm a more of a Equalitarian or Take charge type of guy, and really don't care all that much for playing with D/s slide rulers.

Some women use submission when it's convient for them to avoid certain aspects of living life, or have their fantasy kinks fullfilled in the bedroom.   I'm not proclaiming this is a truth for everybody, or that it's bad thing.   Everybody has certain wants and needs out of life.    I believe if you make the choice for a D/s relationship, that you should work on this as part of your relationship goals, and not hang out playing with Slide rulers with your partner from day to day.

I have read a number of posts where both sides, Dom and sub alike, have complaints or issues with a sort of pick and choose D/s dynamic going on.  I actually think many Doms are just as guilty of playing with slide rulers as there are submissives.

Personally, I highly believe in either D/s or Equalitarian relationship dynamics.  Sex and Kink will alway be part of it for me.  However, if I'm playing with slide rulers with somebody, it's either for kink or practical purposes.  

Basically half assed D/s or half assed Equalitarian relationships confuse the Dom out of me, spin me up and make me want to pace in circles trying to establish a sense of order to the universe.  

OK, I'm going to take my seat in Water Dunking tank, pass out the balls, and make this post.  Think I'd better make those nurf balls in case people start throwing them at each other.

I have no idea in hell if this is gonna trigger a big watergun fight, a thread hijacking, or will serve as food for thought.  Perhaps a little bit of everything. 
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RE: D/s slide rulers - 5/24/2008 5:37:20 AM   
missturbation


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Status: offline 		Ok this may be me being dumb butttttttt what exactly is the slide rule you are talking about? You speak of it twice but in no real context.
 
I need more coffee
 

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RE: D/s slide rulers - 5/24/2008 5:51:26 AM   
Justme696


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From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		Could you please explain in short what the core of the story is. I lost track a little..sorry.

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RE: D/s slide rulers - 5/24/2008 6:41:08 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


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Status: offline 		The slide ruler.  Some examples;

Why Does my Sir, not punish me for my bad behaviors, does he not care?  
My master wanted to spankmy ass and make me stand in the corner for 4 hours, told that heartless bastard to fuck off.

My master treats me like he owns me only when he wants to have sex. 
My Master expects for me to sweep the living room carpets before having sex, screw that!  

If my master had said that to me, I would have told him to get his own fucking beer out of the fridge. 
Why does my master insist upon not letting me wait on him, I feel so damn worthless.

My master won't let me know how he likes my hair done.
My master insists that I should color my hair black and wear a different kind of makeup, screw that.  I don't care what he likes, I ain't doing that for him or anybody else.

Basically, things that are a sort of pick and choose D/s by either side of the coin, to the extent that D/s itself become questionable as the true relationship structure.

Mind you these examples, don't provide any additional details.  They are simply used to illustrate the D/s slide rule concept.

< Message edited by Owner4SexSlave -- 5/24/2008 6:46:03 AM >

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RE: D/s slide rulers - 5/24/2008 6:54:49 AM   
Justme696


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From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		I see. Yes that seems common. There are subs that like strict one day and an other day tell to fuck off.lol
It differes from person to person. But it sure happens as you said in your examples. That is very confusing and normally relations that go like that, don't last long for me.

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RE: D/s slide rulers - 5/24/2008 7:02:34 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


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Status: offline 		I'm sitting here laughing at an old memory...

The phrase "fine, well stay ugly!", "maybe I will"...  the kind of inaction that happen. When either her or I would put in our appearence modification requests.

The Equalitarian side of my Dom couple experience, both of us asserting ourselves regarding each others appearence.   Mind you the word "ugly" was just a smart ass phrase, not meaning  either of us actually found one to be truely ugly. 

Now, in contrast, I have had some women stew and fret about how well I liked or did not like their appearence that it boggles the mind.   Where hated to see a state of indifference because that means they did not do a good enough job.   Time to hault their ass and keep them from changing clothes and redoing makeup and such.  Remind them that they themselves are beautiful to me.  A submissive or somebody trying to bust their ass to please you, type of stuff, where you have to take control before they fluster themselves to death.  Case in point where Micromanagment of appearence is also a prevent measure!  Nip it in the ass before it happens, type of thing.   Involves asserting yourself even if you really don't want to.  Not a matter of pick and choose D/s.     

The D/s slide ruler, It's kinda like playing Russian roulette.   Where If I assert a preference to how one dresses or their appearence.   The reaction could go many different ways!  

Actually I think Russian roulette is more like it.   Never know how the D/s and authority dynamic is gonna go over at whatever given time.   One has to ask themselve how hard do you really wanna pull the trigger. 

EDITED:  I've been revising this to refrain from a few generalized remarks.  I do not know how things work in other people's relationship, not their own experiences.   I made a few comments that were biased genealizations geared at Dom Couple relationships.  Sheepish grin, I'm can only express things from my own experience.  Interactions in past relationships. 

< Message edited by Owner4SexSlave -- 5/24/2008 7:20:13 AM >

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RE: D/s slide rulers - 5/24/2008 7:33:09 AM   
DominantJenny


Posts: 645
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Status: offline 		I honestly have never seen subs that go the negative extreme you give in the examples...not that I haven't seen subs who draw sharp lines about certain things, or subs who seem to think it means being treated like a pampered pet at ALL times, but I think you're gonna get a lot of negative feedback for those examples.

This is where communication UP FRONT is the key. While we're only human and something is bound to get missed somewhere, asking in-depth questions early on goes a long way to making a good match. For example, I had a brief chat with someone yesterday, and asked what her dealbreakers were...she came with no kids, no animals, no blood. I'm of the the "animals cannot give consent anymore than children can" school that thinks we shouldn't even have to make that statement, but the blood one made me prick up my ears, so I asked if that meant she would not be interested in needleplay (it wouldn't have been a dealbreaker, because my once-strong interest in it has faded significantly, but I wanted to know), and she responded that actually needleplay was something she was curious about (but not listed in her profile as curious about!), and so I asked if "no blood" really meant "no cutting", to which she responded with a yes.
When I talk with someone, 90% of early conversation centers around finding any and all potential mismatches/dealbreakers. I ask everything I can think of, and leave it very open for her to do the same. I pay close attention to "minor asides" that often need to be expanded on. I concentrate on the full meaning of terms as I see them and making sure that the other person isn't putting in all kinds of caveats in her head. I will pose hypothetical situations and ask for the response she'd give. (So it's okay with you if I dictate what you wear? How about if I decide that I want your hair differently?, etc.) If, in a relationship, something comes up later that wasn't discussed at the beginning, or something changes, then I don't consider I have a right to enforce that thing...it needs to be brought up and discussed/negotiated as it would/should have been early on. (For example, I wasn't interested in using my slaveboy anally when we first began, but began to develop an interest in it a few years ago...at the first inklings of change, I brought it up, and encouraged him to start opening up to the idea....but if he'd remained firmly closed to the possibility, I would ultimately have respected that.)
There are plenty of subs out there who don't submit enough for me, personally, but they do for others...that's why what matters is whether the person is a match for YOU, not what you think of their submissive (or dominant!) style generally.

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RE: D/s slide rulers - 5/24/2008 7:38:28 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


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Status: offline 		Yes, I used extremes as examples, to illustrate the concept.  These examples were only for the sake of illustration and that alone.

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RE: D/s slide rulers - 5/24/2008 7:40:59 AM   
DominantJenny


Posts: 645
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Status: offline 		The problem I saw was that your negative extremes were unrealistic whereas your postive extremes were realistic. Extremes are fine, but they should be extreme to the same degree. At the very least, there was no reason to use the vulgar language and poor grammar for the negatives.

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RE: D/s slide rulers - 5/24/2008 7:53:58 AM   
gypsygrl


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quote:

Involves asserting yourself even if you really don't want to. Not a matter of pick and choose D/s.


Yeah, I remember having a conversation along the lines of "slavery's not an option to me" meaning I can't sometimes be an obedient slave looking for an order to follow and sometimes be an independant woman doing her own thing.  The corrollary to this is that Mastering isn't an option either.  If I'm going to be in that kind of a relationship, things have to be consistent and I need to know what I'm supposed to be doing on a day to day basis.  (This isn't the same as micromanagement. Just something along the lines of a job description.)

quote:

Actually I think Russian roulette is more like it.   Never know how the D/s and authority dynamic is gonna go over at whatever given time.   One has to ask themselve how hard do you really wanna pull the trigger.


Yup.   That can be an almost literal metaphor from the s-side.  In the absense of consistency, something that was ok one day could get you back-handed the next.  This is especially destabilizing when there was never any rule put in place to mark the previously ok behavior as an infraction.  Can you say "walking on egg shells?"

< Message edited by gypsygrl -- 5/24/2008 7:55:27 AM >

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RE: D/s slide rulers - 5/24/2008 8:09:33 AM   
JohnWarren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Ok this may be me being dumb butttttttt what exactly is the slide rule you are talking about? You speak of it twice but in no real context.
 
I need more coffee
 


Maybe he just heard the term "slide rule" and doesn't know what the device was.  I still have my ivory log-log decitrig, but then I'm just older than dirt

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RE: D/s slide rulers - 5/24/2008 8:33:10 AM   
SimplyMichael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Ok this may be me being dumb butttttttt what exactly is the slide rule you are talking about? You speak of it twice but in no real context.
 
I need more coffee
 


Maybe he just heard the term "slide rule" and doesn't know what the device was.  I still have my ivory log-log decitrig, but then I'm just older than dirt


Warren:

What a sleezy snarky response to a rather heartfelt post.  As someone who has used a slide rule ( my father insisted I learn in case the end of the world came) I think his usage is reasonably apt.

Owner:

You see some relationships as "full" or encompassing "all" and yet you had boundaries or places you didn't go.  So, if someone is farther out than you, who say loans out their partner or uses them as a toilet, or some other form of play/control you didn't engage in, would you then become one of those who is using the slide rule?

It is perspective.  I was at a rather extreme party last night, one where on some level any man could use any woman and there was some wild stuff going on.  I was tickling someone quite lightly and pulling her skirt up just a bit but at that point, for her, it was pretty intense because we were not in the dungeon area but in the social area, she was intensely embarrassed.  So was that silly fluffy play or edgy?  Depending on who you ask it was most certainly both.


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RE: D/s slide rulers - 5/24/2008 8:55:28 AM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
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Status: offline 		Sounds to me like the OP has seen some really odd D/s relationships.
To me a "Dom" who is inconsistant isn't a dom at all - just a lazy want-ta-be. Same with a sub that won't follow reasonable directions.

I have never been given the luxury of refusing directions, but then again my Sir isn't inconsistant, or unreasonable. I'm also not an on-again, off-again sub/slave, so your post didn't resonate with me at all.

Speaking from my perspective, i see no value in espousing a relationship as one thing, then not living that lifestyle. What would be the point?

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RE: D/s slide rulers - 5/24/2008 9:03:33 AM   
Leatherist


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Status: offline 		I hate to sound "rigid" to some extent-but you need to have some sort of mutually agreed upon structure and self discipline to engage in D/s.
 
 It degenerates into fantasy role playing otherwise. And sliding around is what switches like to do-that's just too confusing for me..

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RE: D/s slide rulers - 5/24/2008 9:34:35 AM   
JohnWarren


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From: Delray Beach, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Ok this may be me being dumb butttttttt what exactly is the slide rule you are talking about? You speak of it twice but in no real context.
 
I need more coffee
 


Maybe he just heard the term "slide rule" and doesn't know what the device was.  I still have my ivory log-log decitrig, but then I'm just older than dirt


Warren:

What a sleezy snarky response to a rather heartfelt post.  As someone who has used a slide rule ( my father insisted I learn in case the end of the world came) I think his usage is reasonably apt.



OK, you lost me.  I could see there term "spectrum" or "range" but what is being multiplied, divided, log or square root being extracted here.

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RE: D/s slide rulers - 5/24/2008 9:53:32 AM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
OK, you lost me.  I could see there term "spectrum" or "range" but what is being multiplied, divided, log or square root being extracted here.


Maybe he was talking about the actual slide on the ruler, and using the comparison of where various submission levels fall by measuring them against the C scale or D scale, depending on what the person's line of thinking was. 

You mentioned a log-log slide rule but the OP did not.  The log-log was created 200 years after the basic slide rule and allowed for additional functions, which I don't think is relevant to the OP. 

Maybe he meant sliding scale.  In any case, I don't think the point of his OP was missed, based on what he named his thread.

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RE: D/s slide rulers - 5/24/2008 9:57:32 AM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave

Basically half assed D/s or half assed Equalitarian relationships confuse the Dom out of me, spin me up and make me want to pace in circles trying to establish a sense of order to the universe.  


But they're half assed in your point of view, not necessarily half assed to those in the relationship.  And if this is the case, why spin yourself in circles trying to understand and define someone else's arrangement?  Why not, instead, decide what you want, what you won't settle for, where you draw your lines....and go after that?  It may take you longer to find what you are seeking, but doing that will likely eliminate compromising yourself.

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RE: D/s slide rulers - 5/24/2008 9:59:03 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist
I hate to sound "rigid" to some extent-but you need to have some sort of mutually agreed upon structure and self discipline to engage in D/s.
 
That sums up a long winded post I was about to me.  Both parties have to follow it as well.   Has to be consistent on both ends, not a matter of doing things when somebody feels like it or not.  For both sides of the coin.

quote:


 It degenerates into fantasy role playing otherwise.

Very true, and was the point I was going to close in a long winded post. 

quote:


And sliding around is what switches like to do-that's just too confusing for me..

Sliding around back and forth between things is confusing for me too... 

It's hard for me to fully express what I mean into words, the contrast and comparisons here.  I myself actually feel like I'm speaking Japanese at the moment, or a Foreign language.   I'm rereading my own post, I understand the meaning, yet I see where I'm loosing the meaning in what I'm trying to convey.  

Damn it, I'm a couple of french fries short of a happy meal.  Somebody pass me a beer, after I haul my soaking wet ass out of the water tank. 

What's this thread about?  Relationships packaged as D/s that are niether truely D/s nor Equalitarian in nature, instead a lot of sliding around between the two.  In sliding measures with sliding rules, hence a slide ruler.

Think I need to slap myself with one, that is if I still even own one.  Think it's stashed in a box in storage space at the moment.

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RE: D/s slide rulers - 5/24/2008 10:50:12 AM   
JohnWarren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
OK, you lost me.  I could see there term "spectrum" or "range" but what is being multiplied, divided, log or square root being extracted here.


Maybe he was talking about the actual slide on the ruler, and using the comparison of where various submission levels fall by measuring them against the C scale or D scale, depending on what the person's line of thinking was. 

You mentioned a log-log slide rule but the OP did not.  The log-log was created 200 years after the basic slide rule and allowed for additional functions, which I don't think is relevant to the OP. 

Maybe he meant sliding scale.  In any case, I don't think the point of his OP was missed, based on what he named his thread.


Sliding scale, THAT I'll buy.  I know the slide rule dates to about 1600 and John Napier's bones, but the connection with the OP's thought are still vague.

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RE: D/s slide rulers - 5/24/2008 11:49:37 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Status: offline 		I generally think there are too many levels operating simultaneously with eachother for comparisons to be valid on any external basis.

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