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Perspective. - 5/22/2008 7:17:55 AM   
DominantJenny


Posts: 645
Joined: 4/6/2008
Status: offline 		Something I think about fairly frequently is how being kinked affects your perspective. Even as a kid, I was not shocked by things that lots of other people seemed to find shocking. In fact, I have a hard time thinking of a time I HAVE been shocked...mildly surprised at most, generally. For example, I have a good friend who is turned on by vomiting...and I barely raised an eyebrow when she told me, despite never having heard of that particular kink before.
By the time I was nine, I had a fantasy world that was so full of (non-consentual) SM and D/s that, if I'd been brave enough to tell anyone about it, they'd've probably thrown me straight into the psychiatric ward...and I probably wouldn't have fought them, because I didn't know at that age whether reality and fantasy would be very far apart.
(They turned out to be, or I'd be in jail by now! I always explain it this way: think about when you're really hungry. You fantasize about eating WAY more food than you possibly actually could, because only that extreme does anything to fool your brain...the same was true of my fantasy world...BECAUSE it wasn't real, it was extreme. In reality, I need (general/fundamental) consent or I get turned off.)
I think often of vanilla folk I know, and how utterly different their experience of life is; look at "how to spice up your sex life" articles written for vanillas, how incredibly tame they are by my standards...a few swats on the bottom for some people is OMG titillating. To me, that's barely getting started...I can't imagine how they would cope with things that I take as a matter of course...well, I can, but not in a good way.
Anyway, I'm always a little surprised when I see kinked people failing to be understanding of other people's kinks. It's worst among newbies, which makes sense, but even people who have been around a long time get all EWW! or WRONG! about various things...shouldn't we be trying to understand and relate on some level? Don't we remember what it was like before we found like-minded folks and shouldn't that affect how we interact with people who have even more trouble than we do finding people who understand? (There, I managed to put a question in here! They aren't entirely rhetorical, either. :P)
Taking the example of my friend, I know I could never even remotely be aroused by vomit, but I DO see how it could appeal...being in a vulnerable position (or with someone in a vulnerable position), sharing something very intimate (as anything involving the body is, really)...I don't have to be attracted to it to understand it or find some way to relate to it.
I realize that people are people and there are idiots and bigots and jerks everywhere, but I find it difficult to understand how people who have themselves had to face things that others violently reject as well as find shocking can turn around and do the same to others, barely even skipping a beat in some cases. How do you justify that kind of intolerance having been a victim of it yourself?
If you are of the more tolerant bent (and I hope most of you are), what are some of the more unusual or difficult-to-relate to kinks that you have come to understand or find a way to relate to and how did you do that? (Now THERE's a good question! I'd love to see some education happen here. :))

Jen
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RE: Perspective. - 5/22/2008 8:18:10 AM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		some people say "kinky"when a girl walks in lingery.
Many things that others call "kinky"I find sick.
Difficult....especially one a forum like this...amongst people with similar interest...vanilla kinky..is suddenly normal..

< Message edited by Justme696 -- 5/22/2008 8:41:39 AM >

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RE: Perspective. - 5/22/2008 8:21:40 AM   
Floggings4You


Posts: 240
Joined: 12/18/2006
Status: offline 		"If you are of the more tolerant bent (and I hope most of you are), what are some of the more unusual or difficult-to-relate to kinks that you have come to understand or find a way to relate to and how did you do that?"

I guess My question is, why do I have to 'relate' to O/others' kinks?  I don't 'officially' subscribe to either RACK or SCC, though I believe completely in the 'C' in both acronyms.  I'm tolerant of everyO/one's right to live as they wish.  As long as everyO/one invovled in certain behaviours has freely chosen to participate, I'm cool. 
 
Children, who are viewed by law as lacking the ability to freely choose, cannot give consent, and are therefore 'automatically' excluded.  So are those who have (for whatever reasons) been declared 'incompetant'.  I'm thus not tolerant of T/those who would involve children, or legally incompetant persons, in their 'play'.
 
But I am tolerant of everyO/one else.  Tolerant, but not necessarily able to 'relate'.  I'm tolerant of people who enjoy being beaten 'til their bruised and/or bloody--but I can't really 'relate'.  I'm tolerant of people who enjoy body modification--but I really can't 'relate'.  
 
Etc. 
 


    

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RE: Perspective. - 5/22/2008 8:47:46 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantJenny

I realize that people are people and there are idiots and bigots and jerks everywhere, but I find it difficult to understand how people who have themselves had to face things that others violently reject as well as find shocking can turn around and do the same to others, barely even skipping a beat in some cases. How do you justify that kind of intolerance having been a victim of it yourself?
If you are of the more tolerant bent (and I hope most of you are), what are some of the more unusual or difficult-to-relate to kinks that you have come to understand or find a way to relate to and how did you do that? (Now THERE's a good question! I'd love to see some education happen here. :))

Jen


As I always say and totally believe.  There is NO vanilla.  There is levels of kink.  People use the term vanilla to make a them and us - to feel as though they belong to something special or do something different from others.  People in BDSM circles comes from this so-called vanilla in the first place.  They are NO different.
 
Tolerant people in BDSM ?  Absolutely not the case.  Just read most of the threads here and see just how intolerant BDSM practitioners are of other peoples kinks and choices.  You can hope all you want, but it would be false hope.
 
I do not have to understand nor tolerate other peoples kinks.  I simply have to accept people are people and stick to what is important to Darcy.  Other peoples kinks, hobbies, etc do not come into the equasion.  If they did - then that would be called interfering - sticking ones nose into others business.
 
When it comes to answering a question or comment placed out here on a messageboard, yeah I will answer - but only because it is asked.  But it doesn't touch my life - nor do I theirs - unless they choose it to.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Perspective. - 5/22/2008 8:49:43 AM   
luvnchains


Posts: 52
Joined: 8/17/2005
Status: offline 		There are many things that over the years have freaked me out, but once I have asked enough questions and done some thiniking, I am able to come to an understanding of why and how, things the kinda make me go ewwwww!, might titilate someone else. I am a great believer that people that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...so...that being said, I try not to just look at things other people find desirable only through my own eyes....

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RE: Perspective. - 5/22/2008 8:53:14 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		There are a few activitities I have engaged in that really having very little to do with kink to do they?

In one relationship, we used to prick each other with blood lancets at times, and kiss and lick each others blood.  This was more of an Intimate thing that we did, compared to it being kink driven.
Yes, we even literally would kiss each others Boo Boo's after some rough play.  Ok, on the basic level, this is a form of blood play.  But it really was not about kink nor play.   There was the whole Intimate twist and appeal it had for both of us.   Yes, it's sort of Vampire like.

I can understand all the issues people have with HIV and whatnot these days.  It's been drilled into everybody's mind.  However, if you with somebody in sexual committed relationship, what's the big friggen deal?

I honestly at times, hate to talk about this at times.  It's not like I'm looking for some victim to drain them dry and drink up all their blood.   It is however something I did in the past, it was a mutual and shared activitity we both enjoyed.

For me, this was an intimate, innocent, loving, sensual experience...

This was not some violence, some link, power thing, D/s, not about S&M, or bondage, or hell any other letter in BDSM as a matter of fact.

Yet, at the very mention of this without me explaining it, can result in some very Squickish responses... knee jerk kinda stuff.    The mental images that run deep through other people's mind can be rather extreme.

I try hard to relate and ask questions as to what somebody else's kinks means to them, where they got the idea for doing it, or thinking about it.  Sure, a few things even catch me by suprise from time to time, because I had never even thought about it.   Trust me... My mind has been caught up in some really Fantasy places as a Kid too.   Yes, thinking about things not very consensual like as child, Yes.  However, at the same time, I can't do these things to somebody that is not consenting.

I spent a life time as child, trying to deal with this crap on my own, fearful of talking about for the same DominantJenny pointed out.  There becomes a high level of Self Control that results from dealing with this crap inside ones mind, plus a lot of mental mind fuck exploration as to your own true humanity and compassion and love for other human beings.   Trust me, it's one big internal battle, nightmare, fantasy and mind fuck at the same time.

I have very little tolerence for those people that have no self control, and can't embrace something called Humanity.  You know, those Criminal Abuser types.  The ones that somehow sold their own soul out completely to the dark side.  Those are the ones I have pretty much zero tolerence for...

OK enough of a rant here. 

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RE: Perspective. - 5/22/2008 9:08:21 AM   
pettingdragons


Posts: 421
Joined: 8/16/2005
Status: offline 		" but I find it difficult to understand how people who have themselves had to face things that others violently reject as well as find shocking can turn around and do the same to others, barely even skipping a beat in some cases."

Isnt that called the cycle of abuse and is common in abusive families?

i dont have to relate or understand others kinks to be accepting of them ...or rejecting of them....if i like them no matter what the kink, age, hair color,etc...if i dont well i dont have to interact with anyone i dont want to...except maybe family..LOL  i have friends who are furries and ponies..though i have no interst in being one i support them because they are my friends...and i accept them for who they are...they dont care that i have red hair or an a slave....though it seems to offfend others....now that totally baffles me...why one would loose friends when something wonderful happens...totally blows the mind...
all in all its about accepting people for who they are or not...
just my ramblings

pettingdragons
**Master Dragons considered slave**



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RE: Perspective. - 5/22/2008 10:26:51 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		I'm like most people, tolerant of things *I* like.
 
I simply don't live in a happy little fantasy world where I expect others to be any different.

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RE: Perspective. - 5/22/2008 10:45:38 AM   
MstrVik


Posts: 122
Joined: 3/31/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
As I always say and totally believe.  There is NO vanilla.  There is levels of kink.  People use the term vanilla to make a them and us - to feel as though they belong to something special or do something different from others.  People in BDSM circles comes from this so-called vanilla in the first place.  They are NO different.

 
Well said. I agree. -
 
Possibly, and at least this is so in my own experience, the more we accept and understand our own kinks and quirks, the more acceptance we are able to express towards others. - In those cases when I can't understand someones fascination with a particular kink or approach, I just leave it at that - and since I (obviously) won't engage in any activities that doesn't appeal to me, it's not something I need to relate to at all. In some instances I think I may have understood what the appeal could be, but I also see that my guess could be way off the mark. We all have our individual approaches, and there's often more reasons than one for a particular kink or fascination - if there need be a reason at all...

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RE: Perspective. - 5/22/2008 11:29:07 AM   
DominantJenny


Posts: 645
Joined: 4/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Floggings4You

"If you are of the more tolerant bent (and I hope most of you are), what are some of the more unusual or difficult-to-relate to kinks that you have come to understand or find a way to relate to and how did you do that?"

I guess My question is, why do I have to 'relate' to O/others' kinks?  I don't 'officially' subscribe to either RACK or SCC, though I believe completely in the 'C' in both acronyms.  I'm tolerant of everyO/one's right to live as they wish.  As long as everyO/one invovled in certain behaviours has freely chosen to participate, I'm cool. 
 
Children, who are viewed by law as lacking the ability to freely choose, cannot give consent, and are therefore 'automatically' excluded.  So are those who have (for whatever reasons) been declared 'incompetant'.  I'm thus not tolerant of T/those who would involve children, or legally incompetant persons, in their 'play'.
 
But I am tolerant of everyO/one else.  Tolerant, but not necessarily able to 'relate'.  I'm tolerant of people who enjoy being beaten 'til their bruised and/or bloody--but I can't really 'relate'.  I'm tolerant of people who enjoy body modification--but I really can't 'relate'.  
 
Etc.  


Really, I suppose, seeking a way to relate to different interests/etc is about approaching life from a continual education point of view...If I can relate, if I can understand, I feel I have learned something that I don't if I just tolerate. It's not required, but I think it's a thing worth doing, and something often appreciated by people who mostly go through life being tolerated and not understood. That said, if I'm gonna like you, anyway, tolerance is required. (So we're good. Not that you necessarily care. :P)

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RE: Perspective. - 5/22/2008 11:54:14 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		I am tolerant of anything consenting individuals want to do. Doesn't mean I have to understand it....there are some things that I don't want to understand. Some things, while they may be your thing, aren't my thing and I don't even want to be a witness to it....so in those instances I will excuse myself. Doesn't mean I have to relate to it or understand it.

Now all of that hinges on that "C' word. If you are doing something that crosses THAT boundary, if someone has not consented or is incapable of consenting....well then I can be pretty doggone intolerant.

I have never understood the notion that just because we actively participate in this lifestyle that we are somehow bound to be tolerant and understanding of everything that happens here.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: Perspective. - 5/22/2008 11:56:43 AM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		I may not understand it, I may not personally like it, hell I might find it repulsive... but I will never judge someone else for what they enjoy. I know that there are people who dont understand, dont enjoy and probably some that are replsed by my ideas of enjoyment and eroticism... so to each their own. Dont try and bring me into yours and I wont try and bring you into mine... but if we all enjoyed the exact same things in the exact same ways things would get terribly dull.

DV


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VampiresLair

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RE: Perspective. - 5/22/2008 12:00:58 PM   
DominantJenny


Posts: 645
Joined: 4/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

As I always say and totally believe.  There is NO vanilla.  There is levels of kink.  People use the term vanilla to make a them and us - to feel as though they belong to something special or do something different from others.  People in BDSM circles comes from this so-called vanilla in the first place.  They are NO different.
 
Tolerant people in BDSM ?  Absolutely not the case.  Just read most of the threads here and see just how intolerant BDSM practitioners are of other peoples kinks and choices.  You can hope all you want, but it would be false hope.
 
I do not have to understand nor tolerate other peoples kinks.  I simply have to accept people are people and stick to what is important to Darcy.  Other peoples kinks, hobbies, etc do not come into the equasion.  If they did - then that would be called interfering - sticking ones nose into others business.
 
When it comes to answering a question or comment placed out here on a messageboard, yeah I will answer - but only because it is asked.  But it doesn't touch my life - nor do I theirs - unless they choose it to.
 
the.dark.

 
I think I can see what you mean...that all human behavior falls on a spectrum...I'm not sure this invalidates making distinctions. If everyone thought that way, it'd be spiffy...but I'm different because other people told me and life experience has shown me that I am, very much NOT because I want to be. I was labeled "special" in a positive way as well as "different" in a negative way for my entire life. I didn't want (and actively rejected) both...but, unfortunately, society didn't see it my way.
 
While I agree that there is plenty of intolerance in BDSM, as well as in other minority groups, I can't help but think that if they really examined their behavior, they'd see and want to eliminate the inconsistency. Yeah, I may just be an optimist...and, although raised and educated by a cynic, I prefer optimism, though I try to keep it fairly realistic.
 
I'm not suggesting getting up in a stranger's face and interrogating them about their kink...that is certainly rude. But I see nothing wrong, and, in fact, see something very positive, with attempting to expand one's understanding of humanity in general, through mediums such as this, through questioning rather than attacking or ignoring differences. I will definitely take ignoring over attacking, though.
 
I see humans as social animals...which makes us strong, but also makes us interdependent, and thus never fully free of the effect of others, unless we choose to reject our social natures entirely, something I am not willing to do.

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RE: Perspective. - 5/22/2008 12:11:37 PM   
DominantJenny


Posts: 645
Joined: 4/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
*snip* there are some things that I don't want to understand.
*snip* Doesn't mean I have to relate to it or understand it.

Now all of that hinges on that "C' word. If you are doing something that crosses THAT boundary, if someone has not consented or is incapable of consenting....well then I can be pretty doggone intolerant.

I have never understood the notion that just because we actively participate in this lifestyle that we are somehow bound to be tolerant and understanding of everything that happens here.


Why don't you want to understand them? I don't understand that at all.
I am not saying anyone HAS to relate to or understand anything. I AM saying that I find it heartening when they choose to do so and disappointing when they don't. Not that my opinion matters to anyone who doesn't know me.
Agreed; lack of consent is a fundamental human violation and never acceptable.
As I said in my initial post, I expect more tolerance from people who have been victims of intolerance themselves, because logic suggests they therefore have a certain level of empathy...knowing how something was hurtful or harmful to yourself should, logically, enable you to understand that doing it to others is hurtful and/or harmful to them. That's all.

< Message edited by DominantJenny -- 5/22/2008 12:12:13 PM >

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RE: Perspective. - 5/22/2008 12:32:27 PM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		I think it can go either way, if somebody has been the target/victim of intolerence. Some people are simply not empathic in nature.   If anything they might live by the eye for an eye, tooth for the tooth creed.   Where if anything they have less
tolerence for things.   Their form of Empathy is this "Suffer as I have".

In many way hatred can instill hatred in other people, and not any form of Empathy at all.

There is also, a state of indifference, where somebody in more concerned with the world and how it relates to them, and less with the world around them and how they relate to it.

Some people simply are very internalized creatures, other people are more externalized.  Now, mind you if a love one of an internalized person is suffering, there may be empathy, because the loved one is part of thier life.   Total or complete strangers may or may not recieve any empathy.  Chances are it's a state of indifference, could care less, frame of mind.

These are some of my thoughts on the matter of Empathy.


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RE: Perspective. - 5/22/2008 12:40:17 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantJenny

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
*snip* there are some things that I don't want to understand.
*snip* Doesn't mean I have to relate to it or understand it.

Now all of that hinges on that "C' word. If you are doing something that crosses THAT boundary, if someone has not consented or is incapable of consenting....well then I can be pretty doggone intolerant.

I have never understood the notion that just because we actively participate in this lifestyle that we are somehow bound to be tolerant and understanding of everything that happens here.


Why don't you want to understand them? I don't understand that at all.
I am not saying anyone HAS to relate to or understand anything. I AM saying that I find it heartening when they choose to do so and disappointing when they don't. Not that my opinion matters to anyone who doesn't know me.
Agreed; lack of consent is a fundamental human violation and never acceptable.
As I said in my initial post, I expect more tolerance from people who have been victims of intolerance themselves, because logic suggests they therefore have a certain level of empathy...knowing how something was hurtful or harmful to yourself should, logically, enable you to understand that doing it to others is hurtful and/or harmful to them. That's all.


As an example, there are people who like to play with, roll around in and cover themselves with, lick and eat feces. There is absolutely nothing about that that I have any desire to understand. To be honest, the thought of it is absolutely respulsive to me. Do I tolerate it? Sure....but I have no desire to see it, hear about it....but as long as I don't have to participate in any way.....go for it, more power to ya.

There are also a whole bunch of people who stand under this BDSM or lifestyle umbrella, a lifestyle that I just happen to care a lot about, who have no business being here. They come here because they are women or man hating abusers and this field is ripe for the picking of willing or unsuspecting victims. There is nothing about that scenario that I have to or will tolerate. Everyone yaks about how you have to be tolerant and I'm sorry but, oh hell no I don't. Wrong is wrong and I don't care what fancy package you wrap it in.

A year or so ago there was a "dominant" in our local community. He was down on his luck and I let him stay at my home for a short time. He would bring me little trinkets and gifts. At first I accepted them graciously but told him that it made me very uncomfortable. He didn't listen and I had to tell him that I would not accept them. Then I started to hear some rumors....about this "relationship" that he was in with me and how I was the love of his life. Um....we had NO relationship. When I confronted him about it he sheepishly admitted that he had been telling people that. I told him he would have to leave. A few months later I started getting phone calls from submissives. A LOT of submissives...asking me if I knew where he was. Apparently he was engaged...yes...ENGAGED....to about 5 of them. Yes, he was a smooooooooth talking man. All brand new in the lifestyle. They weren't hard targets. As they cried and poured out their stories to me some things started coming to light and some puzzle pieces started to fit. Turns out that the man was actually married....not divorced for 5 years like everyone thought. He showered them all with gifts and trinkets.....which he stole from the homes of the other girls, including me. Heirloom jewelry, crystal, diamond rings....nothing was off limits to him. Well as it turns out I did know how to contact him...so I did....and asked him to go to dinner with me. Little did he know that all of the girls would be there too. If you could have seen the look on his face! He was trapped. So the girls all sat down and swapped the jewelry off their necks with the girls who had the ones they originally owned. I told him that his days of using this community to find his victims was over....and I would see to it. He devastated those girls. He's damn lucky I didn't have him arrested on the spot.

So tolerance? Pffffffftttttt!

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 5/22/2008 12:44:09 PM >

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to DominantJenny)
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RE: Perspective. - 5/22/2008 12:49:10 PM   
DominantJenny


Posts: 645
Joined: 4/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
As an example, there are people who like to play with, roll around in and cover themselves with, lick and eat feces. There is absolutely nothing about that that I have any desire to understand. To be honest, the thought of it is absolutely respulsive to me. Do I tolerate it? Sure....but I have no desire to see it, hear about it....but as long as I don't have to participate in any way.....go for it, more power to ya.

*snip*


A jackass is a jackass no matter where you find him (or her), I agree. But we already agreed about the key role of consent, and there wasn't any there.

The smell of feces would keep me out of the room, but when they weren't enjoying it, I'd sure be willing to try to understand what it does for them...I like to learn.
I guess that's the heart of it, though I don't want to put words into your mouth so correct me if I'm wrong, but I guess you (and probably people like you) simply aren't interested in learning about something if it doesn't touch you directly...is that right?

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RE: Perspective. - 5/22/2008 12:50:36 PM   
DominantJenny


Posts: 645
Joined: 4/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave

I think it can go either way, if somebody has been the target/victim of intolerence. Some people are simply not empathic in nature.   If anything they might live by the eye for an eye, tooth for the tooth creed.   Where if anything they have less
tolerence for things.   Their form of Empathy is this "Suffer as I have".

In many way hatred can instill hatred in other people, and not any form of Empathy at all.

There is also, a state of indifference, where somebody in more concerned with the world and how it relates to them, and less with the world around them and how they relate to it.

Some people simply are very internalized creatures, other people are more externalized.  Now, mind you if a love one of an internalized person is suffering, there may be empathy, because the loved one is part of thier life.   Total or complete strangers may or may not recieve any empathy.  Chances are it's a state of indifference, could care less, frame of mind.

These are some of my thoughts on the matter of Empathy.


All very good and valid points. *nodnod*

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RE: Perspective. - 5/22/2008 12:57:46 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		I can't speak for "people like me" but I don't have any desire to learn about that which I have no interest in on any level. Knowing it exists and the logistics of it are enough.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to DominantJenny)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Perspective. - 5/22/2008 1:09:21 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		Quite difficult to open up to kinks like that on this forum without being held in contempt for TOS.



_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to DominantJenny)
Profile   Post #: 20
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