RE: Mono Relationship - Using Another As Punishment

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Leatherist -> RE: Mono Relationship - Using Another As Punishment (5/17/2008 9:42:27 PM)
Some subs feel that suffering shows real submission. Let me cite this from Aldous Huxley-"1984". http://lachlan.bluehaze.com.au/books/orwel_1984.html 'I told you, Winston,' he said, 'that metaphysics is not your strong point. The word you are trying to think of is solipsism. But you are mistaken. This is not solipsism. Collective solipsism, if you like. But that is a different thing: in fact, the opposite thing. All this is a digression,' he added in a different tone. 'The real power, the power we have to fight for night and day, is not power over things, but over men.' He paused, and for a moment assumed again his air of a schoolmaster questioning a promising pupil: 'How does one man assert his power over another, Winston?' Winston thought. 'By making him suffer,' he said. 'Exactly. By making him suffer. Obedience is not enough. Unless he is suffering, how can you be sure that he is obeying your will and not his own?

MissMorrigan -> RE: Mono Relationship - Using Another As Punishment (5/17/2008 11:51:42 PM)
MasterFireMaam, you didn't read my entire post. I made it clear I would NOT even consider his suggestion. His continued well-being - physically, mentally and emotionally, is of the utmost importance to me. He's my submissive partner. He is young, has few relationship experiences and has no grasp yet of why it is some fantasies are best left as that, which is why I make the decisions for him. quote: ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam Do you have a continengence plan about how to reassure him or even save/salvage the relationship if he's not "well" AFTER the fact? Master Fire

MissMorrigan -> RE: Mono Relationship - Using Another As Punishment (5/18/2008 12:01:36 AM)
Hello Aiden, it was my submissive that suggested it would be the worst thing he could experience as a punishment, whereas I never think in terms of "What's the worst I could do to a submissive" b/c to me, that's clear - release. He also knows that is not something I would consider and I am confident that it is something he would never ask for. The conversation we had was casual and I was gaining his feedback on any areas in our D/s structure he felt could be improved upon. We were discussing his suggestion when we retired for the night last night, as I have discussed this thread with him and he reiterated that he simply didn't think his suggestion further than the initial dislike of seeing me interacting with another male submissive. What is interesting though is that while he is strictly heterosexual, he was also made to understand that when I feel he is able to process such an experience positively (and that could mean never at all) he will sexually interact with another man for my pleasure. So I think that subconsciously he's perhaps preparing himself for such a thing in the future. Thank you for your post, Aiden. quote: ORIGINAL: Aiden You did ask him to tell you what the worst thing would be. Not knowing him its hard to guess where he was coming from by saying that. A few off the cuff thoughts for what they're worth are that seeing you with another man might well have been the first thing that sprang into his mind on that question, that there may have been a bit of desire to say something he thought you'd like to hear, that as Bear said in the previous post, it may have been an unconscious signal that this was an area he was drawn to explore, and maybe most significantly, you mentioned he likes humiliation. Being forced to watch you with another man might be the ultimate combination of horror and titillation for an emotional masochist.

MissMorrigan -> RE: Mono Relationship - Using Another As Punishment (5/18/2008 12:07:59 AM)
Hello Meticulousgirl, thank you for replying. His honesty is something I do value, even if it is hearing something I may not like, he knows he always has a platform to speak openly with me. quote: ORIGINAL: meticulousgirl i think your subby is being brutally honest no more, no less. now like you i wouldn't do it either, the emotional aftermath is really unknown. If anything right now you should reward his complete honesty and value it........i dont think i've ever stated what my ultimate would be other than the obvious (release). ~meticulous~

MissMorrigan -> RE: Mono Relationship - Using Another As Punishment (5/18/2008 12:27:44 AM)
Hello SimplyMichael, thank you for replying. Like you, there are some interests I also have that I will never experience/introduce into my relationship, I know the consequences of doing so would have far reaching repercussions that I would not enjoy the reality of, so they remain purely fantastical. When Reality does err and it is a repeated behaviour he experiences loss of privileges (within our tiered structure for punishments), and he has to work at earning them back. I do think he is testing the boundaries, but he also knows that when his comfort zones are closed down he doesn't like it at all. Given that this is his only D/s relationship, he has no experiences other than what I have introduced him to and he continues to learn, as I do about him/us. quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael I realize you said this isn't something you would ever do. Perhaps he wants to be "forced" to watch because it is hot for him on some level. BAD thing in a punishment! If it is an unconscious desire then he is going to keep up the behavior that pushes him toward that "goal" of being forced to watch. Also, some things are hot fantasies but don't work in real life. There are some classic taboo/TOS violations that I have an interest in but I am pretty sure the reality would not work for me. Some people don't get that, they don't yet understand that what is hot in fantasy may not work in reality. Lastly, things like seeing your partner with another can quite easily trigger deep feeling that can destroy a relationship. I can't imagine going near something so hard on a relationship in a punishment setting.

MissMorrigan -> RE: Mono Relationship - Using Another As Punishment (5/18/2008 12:39:33 AM)
Hello Leatherist, thank you for such a thought-provoking reply. He knows I can be vicious should he make the mistake of crossing a boundary, I would have him listen to Crazy Frog on a loop. Moving past my tongue-in-cheek comment above, how can one know if suffering isn't ultimately what a person desires even if they do not realise it themselves? quote: ORIGINAL: Leatherist 'Exactly. By making him suffer. Obedience is not enough. Unless he is suffering, how can you be sure that he is obeying your will and not his own?

Owner4SexSlave -> RE: Mono Relationship - Using Another As Punishment (5/18/2008 3:19:40 AM)
I enjoy threads like this.. it's like a difference betwen BDSM 101 and Advanced BDSM 404. I have thought about doing what you described as more of a learning experience or tool, compared to making it a form of punishment. I'll attempt to list the reasoning and logic behind it. It forces the slave to deal with emotions and insecurities and hang ups that might stand in the way of ownership. Yes, where this is done to intentional test jealously, and make them face their own insecurity. Hope this makes sense, it places them in a situation where they wish they were the one's being used by you. Call it a sort of test of motivation to being of service. This is just a 10,000 foot overview of the picture. It would appear your male sub has a desire to be tested and crucified. That perhaps this process, will either make him a stronger submissive or perhaps kill him. Call it a form of testing what one is really made out. At times, us humans would like to know What we are really made out of. It gives us a deeper meaning to have been tested by fire. Fire meaning to go through an extreme moment of personal hell. It makes us look deep inside the core of our very soul. The question is, do we past or fail the test. Sometimes, the only way to pass the test we are looking for is to fail. It reminds of that we have firm set limits. With this said, it sounds like he's willing to have some of his Limits put to the Fire and tested. I would say, if you do this, that one. You should not have a relationship with the male sub you use. This way, if your own sub fails the test, there is the security that it's still a one-on-one deal between you two. If your Male sub manages to process things, and can deal with his limits being exceeded, don't be suprised, if he's willing and up for POLY. In many regards, I get the sense he's wanting to be tested to see if his limits can be pushed past, to better serve you. He knows you are into poly afterall. I suspect he feels like he is holding you back, and that no matter what you say, he still ain't buying into it that you into mono. Basically, that your relationship with him, is the only thing standing in way of you being poly. Hope that somewhat makes sense to you. Some food for thought. At least based on what you expressed, and in terms of why I would use another sub in front of a sub, in such a manner. You should give things some careful thought, and do some more talking, before doing this. Let it be clear WHY it is being Done. Find out if he really wants to be tested in the manner, and why?

Owner4SexSlave -> RE: Mono Relationship - Using Another As Punishment (5/18/2008 3:25:33 AM)
One side note to what I posted. Just because he gets tested like this does not mean you have to go Poly. However, perhaps he will feel like a more worthy and greater submissive at the thoughts you having the power of going poly. The alternative to this, is to simply, reinforce the fact, that if you wanted to go poly, you would. Again, this sounds like a sense of ownership issue, where he feels he's holding you back. Meaning that he feels he has a sense of power over you, instead of you over him. Just my stabs in the dark on this one.

Maya2001 -> RE: Mono Relationship - Using Another As Punishment (5/18/2008 7:49:20 AM)
If you considered that the ultimate punishment would be dismissal ...then to him for a severe offence this would be a step up from that and would be the preferable alternative

jim64 -> RE: Mono Relationship - Using Another As Punishment (5/18/2008 9:27:56 PM)
Speaking for myself, i think this a most natural evolution of his submisson. Especially, as you say he is into humilation play. We are new to this, but have been together for 24 years. Only you really know your boy. If he really wants to try this, start slowly. Take baby steps, see if this causes problems. jim

Second2U -> RE: Mono Relationship - Using Another As Punishment (5/18/2008 11:21:31 PM)
The picture is more important than the frame but without the frame the picture doesn't stay up. I would think about what he has said - it may belong to the way he likes to frame the relationship in his own mind. It doesn't necessarily have to be turned into reality in the way he says it but it might be worth acknowledging in some way.

SleepyDom -> RE: Mono Relationship - Using Another As Punishment (5/19/2008 12:22:22 AM)
Well, he said it as a form of "ultimate punishment" correct? And I assume an ultimate punishment would come into play when dealing with an ultimate offense. What would that be? What if he cheated on you? Would that qualify as an ultimate offense? If so, would you feel differently about using that punishment? I had a sub that basically lied and cheated on me. I knew the worst thing I could do to her would be to just leave because she still loved me, and I did just that though not as a punishment. I'm sure she thinks of it as punishment, but the bottom line is that I despise liars and once she's proven who she really is I no longer loved her in any way. So even if she suggested a punishment like your boy's, I would've said no, it's WAY beyond punishment.

StrangerThan -> RE: Mono Relationship - Using Another As Punishment (5/19/2008 5:51:29 AM)
I'm somewhat lost in the translation here I think. Punishment in my house is not a good thing as it is separated from other things done primarily by the fact that StrangerThan is not a happy man and what he's doing, he is doing to express that displeasure. The extremity of that displeasure depends on what needs to be corrected. I understand your dynamic is different. I had a similar situation years ago though. My submissive wanted to see me with another woman. This is a rather large no in my book. I know, some will look at that statement and think, ok, he really is StrangerThan, but my perspective is simple. The woman who submits to me will service me, as often as I need, when I need, and how I need... and that can be pretty often. As a Dominant, it is my right to choose who will provide me sexual service. That choice is my submissve. So when she brought this up, knowing my thought, I said ok. She brought her friend and we had a grand time. I left her lying in a wet spot about half the size of texas, then did the same to my submissive. Once she'd cum several times, I leaned over and asked her who serviced me. She looked up, and said me Sir. I said, not anymore. Pulled out and came on the floor and walked away. She had to earn the right to do so again. It wasn't a lesson we had to repeat.

batshalom -> RE: Mono Relationship - Using Another As Punishment (5/19/2008 12:32:44 PM)
~fast reply~ My first reaction is that he wants your assurance that while it might be hot, you wouldn't actually do it. It may seem like a fantastic fantasy to him, but monogamy seems to be such an issue that perhaps he wants / needs the embrace of your reassurance. He: Here it is, I am giving up this hard limit. You: No, my dear, (or whatever you call him), it is not something I'm interested in pursuing. You fulfill all my needs and desires. I don't know about you, but as a sub who has been in a similar situation, such a thing would make my day (and it did). ~smiling~ (Please note that I don't think he's being manipulative - the above scenario sounds manipulative to me. I think he truly wants to please you and would give up a lot in order to do so.) I am happy for you to have found such a devoted submissive.

jeffp -> RE: Mono Relationship - Using Another As Punishment (5/21/2008 4:01:09 PM)
maybe i am off base here but i see it as a maturing relationship, he has obviously grown really close to you and wants to continue to bring you to greater levels of pleasure because pleasing you pleases him. IE... If one is good then two must be great, so he feels that sharing you would please you and its a sacrifice that he is willing to make for you.

frazzle121 -> RE: Mono Relationship - Using Another As Punishment (5/21/2008 4:26:15 PM)
To the OP. Maybe i'm reading this wrong, but isnt punishment in the hands of the Dom/me? Why are some reading this, as this is a hidden fantasy of his. You state it's his ultimate punishment, so surely he will be doing everything to avoid it??? I cant imagine deliberately upsetting Him just to be punished. He knows me well enough that when the need for pain, not the want, is driving me nuts, i get it. Usually more than i need, but what the heck, He's the one in charge.

DesFIP -> RE: Mono Relationship - Using Another As Punishment (5/21/2008 5:31:25 PM)
One good example of why demanding a sub to think up an appropriate punishment is not such a good thing. We tend to think of things much worse than our dom/mes do. Basically he's probably thinking just of how much this would hurt him, and not thinking about the aftermath of how it would impact the relationship. Kudos to you for thinking beyond the moment.

lanie38 -> RE: Mono Relationship - Using Another As Punishment (5/21/2008 5:34:47 PM)
~fastreply~ Perhaps it may be as simple as what may have, to use your words, "crucified" him to watch at the beginning of your relationship when insecurities may have been present isn't so relevant 2 years later in a secure loving partnership...limits, boundaries and what seemed scary, hurtful, impossible isn't always seen through the same lens as a relationship progresses...just a thought...

Lordandmaster -> RE: Mono Relationship - Using Another As Punishment (5/21/2008 5:40:05 PM)
I'm confused by a few things you've said here. What exactly do you mean when you say you're poly if you also say that you couldn't be attracted to another male sub because he fulfills all your desires? Doesn't that make you mono too? Also, I don't quite understand how this would be "punishment"--unless you're making free and easy use of the word. If he asked for it and would enjoy being humiliated by having to watch it, then it's hardly punishment. To me, punishment is an unpleasant and deliberately instituted repercussion of violating a rule or agreement. Or is he saying this is how he would like to be punished the next time he does something wrong? That's not how it works. YOU choose the punishment. quote: ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan A little background. I am poly and bisexual, my boy is monogamous and strictly hetero. When we were first in contact this was known about one another and we had no inclination then to pursue a relationship. That changed. Our friendship blossomed and we decided to pursue a relationship. We decided that our relationship would be strictly monogamous and it is a decision I will honour as I value the bond we have created between us. We have just celebrated two years together and decided to have a chat about the structure of our relationship, and any changes we might like to make. I know my boy gets off on being made to do things he doesn't enjoy and is into humiliation play. We have a tier structure implemented with regard to punishment and one suggestion my boy has made is that should he reach the 'punishment milestone', the ultimate punishment for him should be to make him watch me use another male sub. This shocked me, we have discussed it at length and I have made it absolutely clear that this would not occur. While he has suggested it, I also know him very well to know that it would crucify him to see me with another male submissive, and to be honest, I could not feel myself attracted to another person now in any case as he fulfils all my desires. I certainly would not use another person as a form of 'punishment' for my submissive.

MissMorrigan -> RE: Mono Relationship - Using Another As Punishment (5/24/2008 8:21:28 AM)
No, L & M, I'm wired poly, have enjoyed poly relationships in the past and no doubt, could again. But I am also one of those persons that while I can find myself attracted to others, I choose not to be b/c I am the kind of person that needs to get to know someone before I can find them sexually attractive. I am also bisexual, there will always be that element to my sexuality, and I choose NOT to explore that side of my sexuality further. My choosing not to have actual sexual intimacies with another female does not make me any less bisexual. So while I see your point, I'm sure you can also see mine insofar as my exercising my right not to have those relationships.

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