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Cleveland mob beats man to death - 5/12/2008 4:17:38 PM   
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CLEVELAND - Even by tough, urban-crime standards it was a grisly attack: Up to 15 people chased a man, then kicked and beat him to death on the street. Before police arrived, one attacker urinated on the victim's head.

When the crime-hardened neighborhood awoke later that morning, two people reported a man lying on the pavement, his clothes being dragged off by his assailants.

"You got a male being assaulted by 15 other guys. He's laying on the street," one 911 caller said.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080512/ap_on_re_us/beating_death;_ylt=AiGjcsaxvGV6BROJ7JQMI2YDW7oF

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RE: Cleveland mob beats man to death - 5/12/2008 4:36:07 PM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		as an Ex Clevelander i'm not surprised, that area's been tough for a couple decades. 
just sucks that it's come to pack justice. 




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RE: Cleveland mob beats man to death - 5/12/2008 4:37:05 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
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Status: offline 		Yeah, it is sad; sounds like a scene out of A Clockwork Orange.....

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RE: Cleveland mob beats man to death - 5/12/2008 4:44:31 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		This is why we need to get good paying manufacturing jobs back into this country again.
What choice do young men in the inner cities have; McDonalds, the military or, pushing drugs!
If they could get a job in manufacturing at $1,000 a week they'd have a real choice!


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RE: Cleveland mob beats man to death - 5/12/2008 4:59:49 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		If you ever come to see me, you do not walk Cleveland streets alone, without me or one of my friends at night. I don't care what part of the city you are in. Also none of the Women folk in my family walk alone, that is a fact of life.

Last assault committed on one of my friends in the last two weeks : one. Number of scared assholes who would never be able to fight a real Man : two.

Yeah they hit him from behind on his way home from my house. He fell on a fire hydrant which probably hurt, but he spun around immediately and quite soon he was chasing them back to their car. He has the license plate number. If they get found, then they do, but the car could have been stolen.

I still have some TMJ problems from when I was robbed, beaten and shot in the face. So anybody who tries to tell me not to take the law into my own hands is wrong. What, I am getting robbed by three guys and I am supposed to call the police ? Total and utter bullshit. You do that if you want, but me, if I found them today I would make them hurt.

That is my right. Jesus cannot forgive you. Only me.

A good piece of this city blew up due to a gas explosion, we also hosted some really nasty race riots. I have been here all my life save a few months. I will not give up and I will roll bodies up in carpets and roll them down a hill when needed, and I will have no remorse. There are alot of nasty people here and I am sorry to seem like one, but my life is more important to me than your's.

Sorry.

T

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RE: Cleveland mob beats man to death - 5/12/2008 5:02:37 PM   
DomAviator


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

This is why we need to get good paying manufacturing jobs back into this country again.
What choice do young men in the inner cities have; McDonalds, the military or, pushing drugs!
If they could get a job in manufacturing at $1,000 a week they'd have a real choice!



$1,000 a week??? The thought of that makes me violently ill. My ex wife was a teacher with a masters she made $42K, An ER doc makes around $50K, in most places a cop, firefighter or paramedic makes in the $30's, an engineering grad starts at around $41 and some assembly plant worker should make $52K? I dont think so. I dont want to pay $700 for my next new toaster...

The military isnt such a bad option ,,, my dad made a life of it. My time in gave me a career with which I make a pretty comfy living.... They dont need $1000 a week - they need to put the crack pipes down, and learn to behave or they can make license plates for 12 cents an hour....

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RE: Cleveland mob beats man to death - 5/12/2008 5:10:58 PM   
Griswold


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

This is why we need to get good paying manufacturing jobs back into this country again.
What choice do young men in the inner cities have; McDonalds, the military or, pushing drugs!
If they could get a job in manufacturing at $1,000 a week they'd have a real choice!



Well, I don't think I can argue with the intent of your post Popeye, but the truth is...every one of these kids...and kids all over the country can get jobs that pay that much per week, and in 70% of the country (the remaining 30% that can't can learn how to pack and move if they want it bad enough) however....the issue is (as I see it...an employer) that most of these kids who "can't" get these kinds of jobs...decided to leave school at the 6th, 7th or 8th grades.

They all had choices just like any other...and they made theirs.

I get people applying for work that come in to my office to fill out an application...and ask to borrow a pen.

To me that's stunning.

As a young 20 something kid, too stupid to count backwards from 20 some 25 years ago...I can honestly say...that would just never have fucking occurred to me.

I've had people, applying for a truck driving job...and when they get to the line on our form that asks for their drivers license number...I've literally been sitting in my office 40 feet away listening to an applicant telling my secretary at easily 8 on the volume meter.... "You mean I have a DRIVERS license for this stinking job????"

(That stinking job pays $24.00 an hour to start...and goes up from there with experience).

There are hundreds of THOUSANDS of people out there who opted to leave school...their choice....who are truly incapable of employment because they can't deal with even the most rudimentary math.  Simple things like having been given $30.00 to go pick up some goods that cost $28.00....and they honestly can't figure out what happened to the 2 bucks that was left over because their brains are so completely toasted from years of drug use.

There's no question that employers have shipped jobs overseas because they can get products produced for less, regardless of academic capacity of the employees they can hire...but there are as many cases where the employers have sent work overseas because they can't find enough employees....English speaking ones, born here, in this country, who truly have the intellectual capacity to fill out a basic time card.

Trust me on this...it's very true...and it's getting worse.

Quite a few more jobs would exist in this country if the employers could obtain access to production labor that could read a set of instructions, on machines that are incredibly complex, yet have been dumbed down over the last 20 years, not to increase productivity, but because employers have told manufacturers of this same equipment..."I can't get anyone to read the instructions that has the capacity to think sequentially....such that they can insert slat A into slot B...make it simpler".

The jobs for these people exist, and what few manufacturing / production jobs that still exist in this country, those are going to people that finished high school, or more likely...at least a few years of community college...not so much so they have incredible industrial skills...but rather...simply to prove that they have the capacity to think clearly and cogently.

Inner city kids...outer city kids...all kids have a ton of jobs that pay well to choose from.  There are cities all over the country with jobs that pay exceptionally well going unfilled...these jobs exist.

In abundance.

These kids just need to decide whether or not they want to be productive members....which requires an investment (in themselves), which by default...means not quitting school at the age of 14.

If not...all the other options will always be available;  Poverty, strife, incapacity, lack, and on and on and.....


< Message edited by Griswold -- 5/12/2008 5:22:44 PM >

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RE: Cleveland mob beats man to death - 5/12/2008 5:14:18 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

This is why we need to get good paying manufacturing jobs back into this country again.
What choice do young men in the inner cities have; McDonalds, the military or, pushing drugs!
If they could get a job in manufacturing at $1,000 a week they'd have a real choice!


We are never going to get those jobs back Popeye.  They are gone forever.  Shit, I have a college degree, and I have never made 52k in my life.  My last job; I was only making around 30k, which isn't bad for this part of the country.  I just got laid off from that job a month ago, and I am probably going to have to move because of it.  I am not thrilled about it; I like where I live now.  But I got to do what I got to do.  I'm sure as hell not going to set up a meth lab and start dealing.  People in the Rust Belt can do the same thing.  When there aren't jobs in the area, you pack up and leave.  Besides that, there are all sorts of government and private loans, grants, and/or scholarships for college or vocational training.  People don't have to do shit like that. 

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 5/12/2008 5:16:13 PM >

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RE: Cleveland mob beats man to death - 5/12/2008 5:15:53 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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Status: offline 		Actually I quit school, but I didn't quit learning. There is a difference.

T

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RE: Cleveland mob beats man to death - 5/12/2008 5:23:57 PM   
Griswold


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Actually I quit school, but I didn't quit learning. There is a difference.

T


Excellent point (and frankly...I think you just made mine).

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RE: Cleveland mob beats man to death - 5/12/2008 5:25:16 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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Status: offline 		You owe me a beer then Gris.

T

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RE: Cleveland mob beats man to death - 5/12/2008 5:25:24 PM   
SeaDogret


Posts: 50
Joined: 2/17/2008
Status: offline 		Nothing wrong with military in my case took a 17 year old punk car thief, turned him around, gave him an education, sense of direction and skills, 32 years later told me was time to retired. I was garage suprvisor after the Navy, drug fried punks couldn't understand to be a mechanic required tools and willing to get dirty and desire to learn the tasks. Have to be able to read now and use a laptop computer with fleet trucks today, the day of grease monkey and $50 in hand  tools is past, new over road semi's required math and reading skills, plus abilty to get dirty to repair them, when I retired as class A diese/truck mechanic was making $28.50 hr, plus my military retirement. Thanks to the miltary for the skills and motiation to get ahead, gave me a sense of direction. BTW my tool investment is in excess of $25k, when you get a car repaired or truck, thoses tools are purchased by the mechanic, not given to him by the employer. Seadogret

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RE: Cleveland mob beats man to death - 5/12/2008 5:27:25 PM   
Griswold


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

You owe me a beer then Gris.

T


I'm sorry, but my math only works in Crown Royal.

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RE: Cleveland mob beats man to death - 5/12/2008 5:31:28 PM   
Griswold


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SeaDogret

Nothing wrong with military in my case took a 17 year old punk car thief, turned him around, gave him an education, sense of direction and skills, 32 years later told me was time to retired. I was garage suprvisor after the Navy, drug fried punks couldn't understand to be a mechanic required tools and willing to get dirty and desire to learn the tasks. Have to be able to read now and use a laptop computer with fleet trucks today, the day of grease monkey and $50 in hand  tools is past, new over road semi's required math and reading skills, plus abilty to get dirty to repair them, when I retired as class A diese/truck mechanic was making $28.50 hr, plus my military retirement. Thanks to the miltary for the skills and motiation to get ahead, gave me a sense of direction. BTW my tool investment is in excess of $25k, when you get a car repaired or truck, thoses tools are purchased by the mechanic, not given to him by the employer. Seadogret


SeaDog...I think there's an incredibly solid argument to be made today for a required 2 year enlistment, at least for young men. 

I'm almost 50, and I think it's fairly easy to make a link between the time when that was the case...and the productivity (and responsability levels) of young men then...and now (and my generation was pretty much the first in two generations that didn't have to do a hitch...and it's my generation and younger where the problems are).

I'd be all for that...and I'd even vote twice for it.

(And to be completely honest....even though I turned out not to be a complete waste of humanity...I think it would have done me some good as well).


< Message edited by Griswold -- 5/12/2008 5:32:46 PM >

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RE: Cleveland mob beats man to death - 5/12/2008 5:58:56 PM   
DDraigeuraid


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Status: offline 		Griz, I think a case could be made for a two or four year national service for all, both male and female.  Not necessarily military, but that could be included.  Peace Corp, Job Corp, many other things that young people could be put to work.  And in exchange, a year for year tuition grant to college or trade school.  It has worked successfully in other countries.

Dragon

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RE: Cleveland mob beats man to death - 5/12/2008 6:00:47 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		SeaDogret, I didn't mean to imply that going into the military wasn't a good choice.
I was in the Navy (QM)during the Vietnam days got out for three years then went into the USCG and finished up.
It's an excellent choice for some young people!
My life is far richer for having served our country!

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RE: Cleveland mob beats man to death - 5/12/2008 6:01:44 PM   
PanthersMom


Posts: 2215
Joined: 11/26/2007
From: Cleveland Ohio
Status: offline 		sounds like a typical night in the hood around here.  the city went into shock when we had five murders in less than two weeks last year in my neighborhood; this was supposedly a quiet area of cleveland.  the whole damn city is circling the bowl and our illustrious mayor and his family of thieves and gun runners are leading the city down the drain.  i've lived here all my life and even during the riots it wasn't this bad.  back then you knew where the bad areas were, now it's everywhere.
PM

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RE: Cleveland mob beats man to death - 5/12/2008 6:10:46 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PanthersMom

sounds like a typical night in the hood around here.  the city went into shock when we had five murders in less than two weeks last year in my neighborhood; this was supposedly a quiet area of cleveland.  the whole damn city is circling the bowl and our illustrious mayor and his family of thieves and gun runners are leading the city down the drain.  i've lived here all my life and even during the riots it wasn't this bad.  back then you knew where the bad areas were, now it's everywhere.
PM


And Bush does nothing.

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RE: Cleveland mob beats man to death - 5/12/2008 6:15:45 PM   
DomAviator


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

.I've literally been sitting in my office 40 feet away listening to an applicant telling my secretary at easily 8 on the volume meter.... "You mean I have a DRIVERS license for this stinking job????"



Gris - you post inspired me to add something... The outrage when unqualified idiots dont get the job, and how they cry discrimination when they dont.

As well as contract pilot services, I do aviation training. Essentially taking people who are already commercial pilots (or military pilots) and transitioning them to specific types of aircraft. For example - a guy may have flown an F-16 in the USAF and now he has an offer with an airline so he needs to pick up a 737 type rating or the guy who has been flying charters, tours, etc for a couple of years who is now looking for a corporate flying gig and needs to pick up a Citation or Lear type rating....

Well I had an New Orleans refugee, about 19 years old come to my office with his pants half way around his ass, backwords baseball cap etc. and when I asked him what he wanted he said "Yo! I wants to be a motherfucking airline pilot... Hook me up!" He was downright fucking indignant when I told him to go to college and join the military, or to go to college and then spend approx $70,000 on flight instruction and to work his way up through various shitty flight jobs - flying tours, towing banners, dusting crops anything you can do to build flight time. No he wanted it NOW! Even went so far as to have Quanell X, the local black activist / leader / rabble rouser call on his behalf rattling the discrimination sword....

It didnt matter to him  that you need to be 23 years old, of good moral character, have a first class medical, a commercial pilots certificate with insturument privelages or military rating, and 1500 hours of flight time just to get an Airline Transport Pilot certicifate... he was victimized. LOL (Thats legal minimums - to get an actual interview at a major like Continental - figure 3,000 hours at least 1000 hours pilot in command in jets, four year college degree, etc...I wont even get into how the selection board at an airline would view a visible boxers, a backwards baseball cap, ebonics, or the term "motherfucking" in the three day interview process ) I told him he can bitch about discrimination all he wants but that kid has as much chance of becoming pope as an airline pilot unless he can get congress to repeal Part 61 and Part 121 of the FAR's...

The real kicker, the idiot was in the wrong place to begin with as I dont hire airline pilots - I train them. LOL The inner city youth are beyond the help of anyone but a good Gunnery Sgt or Master Chief... 

< Message edited by DomAviator -- 5/12/2008 6:19:19 PM >

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RE: Cleveland mob beats man to death - 5/12/2008 6:36:24 PM   
PanthersMom


Posts: 2215
Joined: 11/26/2007
From: Cleveland Ohio
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: PanthersMom

sounds like a typical night in the hood around here.  the city went into shock when we had five murders in less than two weeks last year in my neighborhood; this was supposedly a quiet area of cleveland.  the whole damn city is circling the bowl and our illustrious mayor and his family of thieves and gun runners are leading the city down the drain.  i've lived here all my life and even during the riots it wasn't this bad.  back then you knew where the bad areas were, now it's everywhere.
PM


And Bush does nothing.


we can't even get our own mayor to do anything, let alone the president!  our mayor hides from the citizens and even he's not immune, his own relatives are breaking into each other's homes.

PM

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