RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (Full Version)

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bipolarber -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/11/2008 6:36:56 PM)

You know, Ms. D. Vampire, there are groups you can contact about supporting either individuals or entire villiages that need help. Myself, a couple of the charities I give money to regularly are the United Way (for local relief of disasters) the local food bank (ditto) and "Feed the Children" which has a subset for helping larger groups like villiages. I think my total outlay is about $20 a month... but thanks to myself, and a few others like me, some folks have it a little better than they would otherwise. And what does it cost me? Maybe the price of eating at McDonalds, or a used CD?




Hippiekinkster -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/12/2008 12:40:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

When most of the land in any given country is exploited for the purpose of providing yours with cheap cocoa/tobacco/coffee/cotton, and therefore not for the cultivation of food, when all the revenues from the production of these foreign crops go out of the country where they are produced, it's impossible for the local agriculture to provide for its own people. 

Meritocracy is a simplistic and false solution to a terribly complex problem.
Oh, wow, would I love to talk about Meritocracy. Give me a reason to go rooting around "The Economist" archives. What a bullshit (Neo)Colonial racist concept.

Anyway, all the people who are in such dire straits used to farm for themselves. They did OK. What happened? The US and EU subsidized farmers, who then grew surpluses (Government Cheese, anyone?) which were then sent off abroad in the guise of "foreign aid". Right-wingers are sooooo fond of doing the chicken dance about how much aid the US gives, but they never seem to disclose that those funds have to be spent on US shit. More lies by omission) So very cheap food was sent to Chad or Bangladesh or wherever, and the local farmers couldn't sell their shit. Oops! There goes the family farm. Where's Willie Nelson now that he's REALLY needed? Loose the family farm, loose the farmers. They go huddle in the slums of the cities trying to live off of trash while perfectly good land lies fallow.

If you consumers really want to help, you'll buy "Fair Trade" items and not shit from Hersheys or ADM or whatever. Make sure it's labelled "Fair Trade". It really isn't any more expensive than "Middlemen get fucking rich Trade" goods. And lobby Congress to stop subsidies to Cargill and IBP, and give the breaks to actual, genuine small farmers who are not dead and who actually grow things sustainably.




heartcream -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/12/2008 1:01:58 AM)

This is one world. We all live on it. The fact that some of the world lives in horrid poverty and starvation is not separate from folks who are so unconscious and eat all day long. "We" meaning the USA is not separate from the rest of the world. Some folks are hogs and dont care who they hurt or what they take in order to get what they want. They are blind to what is really going on and hold themselves apart from reality really. We are all one people. We need to help each other in a real way not this killing people in so many different ways.

We all deserve to eat and have a life we want. Sometimes it is the fat and rich who are actually living in poverty within.




Griswold -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/12/2008 4:54:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

This is one world. We all live on it. The fact that some of the world lives in horrid poverty and starvation is not separate from folks who are so unconscious and eat all day long. "We" meaning the USA is not separate from the rest of the world. Some folks are hogs and dont care who they hurt or what they take in order to get what they want. They are blind to what is really going on and hold themselves apart from reality really. We are all one people. We need to help each other in a real way not this killing people in so many different ways.

We all deserve to eat and have a life we want. Sometimes it is the fat and rich who are actually living in poverty within.


I don't know that I'd have put it all that harshly, on the other hand...I can't find anything in your entire point that I'd feel capable of arguing either.




kiwisub12 -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/12/2008 5:42:49 PM)

the charity i like the idea of is the one where they give loans to women to start small family businesses. Then they can afford to feed and educate their kids, which starts to break the cycle of poverty.




kiwisub12 -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/12/2008 5:53:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold


he's right...no one sends more care or more military might to every corner of the world than the US.


The world has been caretaken by the US for a very long time



any American will tell you that they won world war two - and forget the other countries that were there - usually before the Yanks dained to join the fun.

As far as foreign aid - is that more aid per capita, or just total - because i think you might find that other countries actually contribute more per capita than America.  America is a huge , rich country and a few billion isn't missed - (think the widows mite.,) and there are a lot of politicians that spend a lot of time patting themselves on the back, telling each other how generous they are.
On the other hand, there are many individual Americans who go and do in the places where the help is needed. They don't toot their own horns - they just go and do what is needed.
I volunteer my time with a medical group that go to Honduras, and operate in the public hospital in the capital city. Not only do we operate on people living in poverty most americans can't imagine, the doctors teach the Honduran doctors updated techniques. Talk about a win-win situation.
anyway - my two cents worth




Griswold -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/12/2008 6:03:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold


he's right...no one sends more care or more military might to every corner of the world than the US.


The world has been caretaken by the US for a very long time



any American will tell you that they won world war two - and forget the other countries that were there - usually before the Yanks dained to join the fun.

As far as foreign aid - is that more aid per capita, or just total - because i think you might find that other countries actually contribute more per capita than America.  America is a huge , rich country and a few billion isn't missed - (think the widows mite.,) and there are a lot of politicians that spend a lot of time patting themselves on the back, telling each other how generous they are.
On the other hand, there are many individual Americans who go and do in the places where the help is needed. They don't toot their own horns - they just go and do what is needed.
I volunteer my time with a medical group that go to Honduras, and operate in the public hospital in the capital city. Not only do we operate on people living in poverty most americans can't imagine, the doctors teach the Honduran doctors updated techniques. Talk about a win-win situation.
anyway - my two cents worth


I certainly wouldn't argue that Americans have been a bit bold in their self congratulatory behavior over the last 50 years, but rest assured, the USA gives more per capita and indeed, more in actual real aid, hard cash and goods than any other country on the planet.

It could certainly be argued that it's because we have it to give, but be clear...it's a fact nonetheless.

(By the way..."deign" and or "deigned").

(Afterthought...something tells me all those men getting slaughtered on various beaches and fields all over Europe...probably didn't see it as "fun").




MusicalBoredom -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/12/2008 6:38:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
If you consumers really want to help, you'll buy "Fair Trade" items and not shit from Hersheys or ADM or whatever. Make sure it's labelled "Fair Trade". It really isn't any more expensive than "Middlemen get fucking rich Trade" goods. And lobby Congress to stop subsidies to Cargill and IBP, and give the breaks to actual, genuine small farmers who are not dead and who actually grow things sustainably.


I have to fully support Hippie on this one.





Alumbrado -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/12/2008 8:57:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

any American will tell you that they won world war two - and forget the other countries that were there - usually before the Yanks dained to join the fun.

As far as foreign aid - is that more aid per capita, or just total - because i think you might find that other countries actually contribute more per capita than America.  America is a huge , rich country and a few billion isn't missed - (think the widows mite.,) and there are a lot of politicians that spend a lot of time patting themselves on the back, telling each other how generous they are....


I'll call BS on that... Americans know damn good and well that it was a 'world war' and that the Allies won... you are just stirring up jingoistic shit.

And look up what per capita means...  your comment about it being easier to spare a few billion is ridiculous.




Termyn8or -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/13/2008 1:13:28 AM)

Have any of you ever heard of anything like this ?

http://www.house.gov/paul/nytg.htm

Give away your own fucking money, what they do now is what made me become a non-taxpayer. You think I like that? I make less than a hundred grand a year now, so there is no reason for me to do this, but I so dislike what they would be doing with my money, had I given them any, that I simply won't.

And the rest of that is best left for another thread. So many people have fucked up doing it that really, I was a bit leery. There are a few of us, that they just won't bust us for anything because they don't want the hassle.

Knowing how to get there is the problem, there are more scam artists in that game than anywhere, even the government. There is only one way to do it right and that is it. All the rest land you in jail. One way, only one.

I know which one.

And I am not afraid of them in the least.

T




Griswold -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/13/2008 4:06:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Have any of you ever heard of anything like this ?

http://www.house.gov/paul/nytg.htm

Give away your own fucking money, what they do now is what made me become a non-taxpayer. You think I like that? I make less than a hundred grand a year now, so there is no reason for me to do this, but I so dislike what they would be doing with my money, had I given them any, that I simply won't.

And the rest of that is best left for another thread. So many people have fucked up doing it that really, I was a bit leery. There are a few of us, that they just won't bust us for anything because they don't want the hassle.

Knowing how to get there is the problem, there are more scam artists in that game than anywhere, even the government. There is only one way to do it right and that is it. All the rest land you in jail. One way, only one.

I know which one.

And I am not afraid of them in the least.

T


T8...chill....this was a question about where things are going...you've already determined things.

(It ain't all about you).

Breath deep....ooooohhhhmmmmmm.......

(It's all good...honest).




Termyn8or -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/13/2008 8:12:37 PM)

Feed them now and you will have more to feed later. I say enough is enough.

T




Manawyddan -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/17/2008 5:00:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever
"Give a man a fish, feed him for a day.

Teach a man to fish, and feed him for a lifetime."


Give a man a poisoned fish, feed him for life!




NorthernGent -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/17/2008 5:43:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

Without the US?



The equivalent would be starving a flower of water - we simply wouldn't cope.

This leads me to a related question: in the event you switch off the American life support system, can you send me a visa in advance so I can move over there and continue to live?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

The world has been caretaken by the US for a very long time



Were you to hold a worldwide poll on whether or not the United States is a hinderance or a help, you could find yourself sat with an unexpected consensus.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

Your thoughts?



Two lesbians, both brunette with dark eyes, slim, pert tits........

P.S. while the United States gives more aid and charitable donations as a nation, Americans are well down the list on a per person basis.




pahunkboy -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/17/2008 6:11:22 AM)

I for one am glad we will never ever repeat the mistake of vietnam.  nor the mistake of worldcom.  nor the mistake of enron, nor the mistake of bear stearns,\\surely

ww  was the war to end all wars.

i for one am so glad we  remember history and are not doomed to repeat it.

i also am glad that we the US has erraticated greed.  




eyesopened -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/17/2008 6:30:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

P.S. while the United States gives more aid and charitable donations as a nation, Americans are well down the list on a per person basis.


Believe it or not, there are a LOT of impoverished people in the United States.  So many in fact, that the majority of the population does not have enough excess money to be as charitable as they would like to be.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
i also am glad that we the US has erraticated greed.  


Not sure when the United States was voted the erraticator of greed?  Could you enlighten me as to when that happened?

i am a Democrat type who becomes more and more Isolationist every day.  i can't imagine spending all my money helping others if my own family is going without.  That wouldn't make me wonderful, that would make me horrible!  i say we withdraw our aid and our military our jobs and our politics from all over the globe and take care of the United States first.  Only after we have irradicated poverty, pollution, social unrest and starvation from our own soil should we dare to offer help to anyone else. 

Perhaps what is worse than our not taking care of our own, is that those times when we were offered foreign aid ( 911 and Hurricane Katrina) the current administration refused most of it.  Again, people are willing to help people but it seems governments are not willing to help people.  That's got to change.




hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/17/2008 7:59:12 AM)

Oh now isn't This thread just a juicey lil pile of steaming controversy to thrust myself into the middle of!  (The forum equivalant of Scat perhaps?)
 
First, for the person who asked early in the thread "what would jesus do?"  Let me answer your question with a question.  Why should I give a flying rat's arse what someone who's been dead 2000+ years (and who can't even be verified through historical record sources to have been a real person rather than simply myth) may or may not have done?  The world has significantly Changed in that 2000+ years.  Besides which, I'm by no means judeo-christian, so why would a christian icon's Possible actions in a situation that they were never even theoretically exposed to make any difference to me in how *I decide on personal action or lack thereof?  (This isn't meant to turn this into a debate over the relative merits of any given religion - just to point out that religions differ across the globe and even within any given single country - so it has no real relevance being thrust into a debate of this nature by even Posing such a question.) 
 
Second : to Hippy specifically : 90% of my grocery bill these days comes from a local Food Coop that has a sustainability requirement for producers.  Everything sold through the coop - both edible and non-edible products - has to be grown/produced here in my state using sustainable methods that are far removed from typical mass production farming methods except for the coffee and tea which is required to be Fair Trade.  While I pay a slight bit more than I would at a chain grocery, and I have to plan ahead to account for a single delivery each month, it's a higher price that I more than willingly pay.  The quality is better, the food is tastier and healthier, and it helps the local (often rotten) local economy.  The only coop producer that I buy from that does Not grow their own is the folks that provide  my coffee - which is Fair Trade grown in various coffee producing areas around the world - and that's not so much because it's Fair Trade, but because the climate where I live is absolutely unconducive to growing coffee and I Need my coffee in the morning.  (Nothing quite like waking up to a pot of Bolivian Fair Trade with real cream instead of mass produced "creamer" and locally produced raw organic honey, then chowing down on freerange eggs, locally produced sausage, and fresh whole grain bread spread with homemade pumpkin or apple butter - breakfast has become an almost religious experience for me LOL)
 
Third : I'm a firm believer that many of the world's food problems are due more to overgrazing our hunting grounds - ie, to many people on to little land - than anything else.  If folks are going to consistantly reproduce like rabbits who lack either the space or the agricultural technology to produce sufficient food on limited or degraded soil - then some of those folks are naturally going to have to go without.  Family farmers are put out of business by government subsidies to commercial farming in the US just as much as you seem to feel they are in the rest of the world - and yet we still manage to feed our own for the most part, and have surpluses to sell to the rest of the world. 
 
When the rest of the world Wants something - whether that be medical and food aid during a natural disaster or technology to become more self sufficient or help with a local uprising or help holding back agressive neighbors - it's the US that gets called upon to take care of it.  We drain our coffers and allow our youth to Fight, Bleed, and DIE for such causes.  But as soon as it's taken care of, we go back to being Public Enemy Number One in whatever country we've just bailed out of a frigging crises.  Personally, I'm all for letting the rest of the world stew in it's own juices and rely on someone Else for a change - like THEMSELVES. What would I personally tell anyone in the countries that are chronically short and expect us to constantly bail them out?  Quit overbreeding - birth control is both cheap and effective; quit whining, and quit thinking we somehow "owe" you help ( it's Not the Big Bad US's fault that your farmers aren't growing enough for 10,000 people on land that can only easily sustain 1000).  You want something from us - then have something other than reviling our country when you're Not in crises and enabling terrorism to offer in exchange!




Emperor1956 -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/17/2008 8:05:17 AM)

We give them money, but are they grateful?  No, they're spiteful and they're hateful...

They all hate us anyhow, so lets drop the big one NOW.  Lets drop the BIG ONE, Now.




lusciouslips19 -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/17/2008 8:17:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

the charity i like the idea of is the one where they give loans to women to start small family businesses. Then they can afford to feed and educate their kids, which starts to break the cycle of poverty.


There is another program called the heiffer project where they give a family a cow.




NorthernGent -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/17/2008 9:49:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

P.S. while the United States gives more aid and charitable donations as a nation, Americans are well down the list on a per person basis.


Believe it or not, there are a LOT of impoverished people in the United States. 



I'm afraid I can't help - charity begins at home. The odd tsunami and the plight of malnourished Americans are of no consequence to me.

If it helps, and this is serious, our government still owes your government some money from WW1 - one of those 2% loans you offer to old friends who need pulling out of the shit. 'Bout time the queen paid her dues.




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