Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (Full Version)

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Griswold -> Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/11/2008 3:36:50 PM)

A fellow I know said something the other day (I have a fairly good idea how this conversation's going to go...but it's still a reasonable question considering...), and while my convictions are slightly different...here's what he had to say....

"Fuck those pricks, starving all over the world...it ain't our fault....right, so we're trying to make fuel out of corn/wheat/rye grass/etc...we're doing it because of those pricks that sell oil at ungodly prices, and besides which...who saves the world better than the US?  The US sends more money per capita than any other country in the world to help people out...when the world's in a big pile of dog shit...who sends planes?  Who sends CARE packages?  Who sends American Troups?  We do.  Fuck 'em...it's time to take care of our own".

It's an interesting concept...and one which caused me to reconsider some of the facts...he's right...no one sends more care or more military might to every corner of the world than the US.

And for those who would argue "fuck that shit....you send far too much military aid to the planet"...consider your country (if it isn't here)...truly...let's be honest....how would they/you fare?

Without the US?

It's a fair, and factually honest question.

The world has been caretaken by the US for a very long time....and much of that money...not spent in other countries (ergo, left in personal coffers there, for local consumption), has been drained by American pockets, granted, lately fueled by foriegn debt...but nevertheless...owed by American citizens...and at some point, paid by same....

Your thoughts?



Owner59 -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, contraversial concept about food.... (5/11/2008 3:38:13 PM)

What would Jesus do?



pahunkboy -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, contraversial concept about food.... (5/11/2008 3:39:43 PM)

poverty vs wall street.



PanthersMom -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, contraversial concept about food.... (5/11/2008 3:40:08 PM)

*runs away looking for a fallout shelter over this one*

PM



Griswold -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, contraversial concept about food.... (5/11/2008 3:40:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PanthersMom

*runs away looking for a fallout shelter over this one*

PM


(I'll join you).



Level -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/11/2008 3:53:11 PM)

We've done a great deal for the world, and at times, have fucked things up. Should we help others? Yes. Should we help ourselves? Yes.



Griswold -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/11/2008 4:03:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

We've done a great deal for the world, and at times, have fucked things up. Should we help others? Yes. Should we help ourselves? Yes.


(Indeed).



bipolarber -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/11/2008 4:13:56 PM)

Kurt Vonnegut once said the the meaning of life is to help each other get through this. "This" being life on Earth, or whatever crisis is happening. It essentially the same basic idea as this Jesus guy had... (you will be judged by how well you treat the "least" among you.)

Funny how GOP types (I'm assuming your friend is a fasicst republican type) are always the ones who default to the "fuck 'em, let 'em all die" position. This, even though they are the ones who say God is supposedly on their side, and theirs alone.

But  then, we all know they are evil incarnate, anyway.



kittinSol -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/11/2008 4:14:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

The world has been caretaken by the US for a very long time



That's one of the funniest things I've heard all day [:D] .



subfever -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/11/2008 4:27:11 PM)

(fast reply)

I was going to say:

"Give a man a fish, feed him for a day.

Teach a man to fish, and feed him for a lifetime."

But then realized that various governments around the world are the key obstacles to the eradication of hunger... not the people themselves.



popeye1250 -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/11/2008 4:33:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

(fast reply)

I was going to say:

"Give a man a fish, feed him for a day.

Teach a man to fish, and feed him for a lifetime."

But then realized that various governments around the world are the key obstacles to the eradication of hunger... not the people themselves.


That's the *biggest* mistake we've made over the last 40 years, giving money to "govts" and not people.
No progress whatever.
I'm totally against those foreign aid programs.
If individuals want to give that's the way it should be done.
File under "what our govt shouldn't be doing."



Griswold -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/11/2008 4:47:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

(fast reply)

I was going to say:

"Give a man a fish, feed him for a day.

Teach a man to fish, and feed him for a lifetime."

But then realized that various governments around the world are the key obstacles to the eradication of hunger... not the people themselves.


That's the *biggest* mistake we've made over the last 40 years, giving money to "govts" and not people.
No progress whatever.
I'm totally against those foreign aid programs.
If individuals want to give that's the way it should be done.
File under "what our govt shouldn't be doing."


(Gawwwwd...someone shoot me...I agree with Popeye).

(Unfortunately...he's right).



subfever -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/11/2008 4:55:25 PM)

quote:

(Gawwwwd...someone shoot me...I agree with Popeye).


Uh-oh... could the end be near??? ... [:D]



DomKen -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/11/2008 5:02:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
That's the *biggest* mistake we've made over the last 40 years, giving money to "govts" and not people.
No progress whatever.
I'm totally against those foreign aid programs.
If individuals want to give that's the way it should be done.
File under "what our govt shouldn't be doing."

You're opposed to foreign aid? Who would have ever thought that.

BTW why not go back 60 years to when we started giving significant peace time foreign aid to governments and try that argument again.

Foreign aid hasn't been successful everywhere, especially not where the CIA and NSA stuck their fingers into the choosing of those government's leaders, but the successes do sort of make up for the failures.

Western Europe is free and friendly to the US, or will be once GWB is out of office, due to the Marshall plan's aid to those governments. Egypt remains a secular mid east state at peace with Israel since 1979 partly due to our aid to that government, yes the government could be better but it could be a whole lot worse if the Islamic Group (al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya) was in charge.

Israel exists in large part due to US government aid. If you don't understand why this is something we as a nation must do I suggest you look into the St. Louis affair in 1939.



faerytattoodgirl -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/11/2008 5:04:56 PM)

well maybe if those countries that are starving would stop having 10 kids per family...they wouldnt be starving.

there really needs to be a limit put on how many children a family can have.
some countries already do this.



DiurnalVampire -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/11/2008 5:11:15 PM)

I think rather than giving people food, we should be giving them means to grow their own food. Spend $1000 on irrigating a field so they can grow enough food to feed a village for an entire growing seasonrather than spending it on enough food to feed a few families for a few days. Spend the time to educate people on how to grow, farm, raise animals... and not just leave them clueless on how to take care of themselves with their hands out. A lot of people believe that "God wil provide" and they continue along waiting for things to be gien to them. Well, they might be right, God wil provide... God might make your plants grow when you plant them, God might help your lifestock breed and thrive. Too many think that things will be provided for the, whether or not they make an attempt to do any of it themselves, and so why should they bother?
My opinion has always been only give the aid to those who have been trying to do it themselves and need some support in reaching their goals, not give it to those who make no effort to do anything and just wait for the handouts of the day/month/year.

DV



ThinkingKitten -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/11/2008 5:24:23 PM)

Griswold, you misnamed the topic. It's not just about food. It's a nice little dicey controversial concept about life, the universe and everything. And UNTIL everyone in the USA understands the answer is '42' and how to derive said answer, then there is no hope. No hope at all, for anyone on this planet.
[sm=argue.gif]



Alumbrado -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/11/2008 5:28:52 PM)

The problem of unequal distribution of food resources is engineered and sustained by multi-national corporations like ADM, it is not going to be fixed by more foreign aid from any one to two countries.



DomKen -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/11/2008 5:30:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

I think rather than giving people food, we should be giving them means to grow their own food. Spend $1000 on irrigating a field so they can grow enough food to feed a village for an entire growing seasonrather than spending it on enough food to feed a few families for a few days. Spend the time to educate people on how to grow, farm, raise animals... and not just leave them clueless on how to take care of themselves with their hands out. A lot of people believe that "God wil provide" and they continue along waiting for things to be gien to them. Well, they might be right, God wil provide... God might make your plants grow when you plant them, God might help your lifestock breed and thrive. Too many think that things will be provided for the, whether or not they make an attempt to do any of it themselves, and so why should they bother?
My opinion has always been only give the aid to those who have been trying to do it themselves and need some support in reaching their goals, not give it to those who make no effort to do anything and just wait for the handouts of the day/month/year.

DV


Direct food aid is not given out to some group that has no idea how to support themselves. Food aid is almost always provided in response to natural disaster. Long term drought in east Africa, floods in Haiti, typhoon in Burma etc.

Those folks know how to farm, to a subsistence level at least, but for one reason or another face starvation in the short term.



kittinSol -> RE: Her's a nice little dicey, controversial concept about food.... (5/11/2008 5:32:14 PM)

When most of the land in any given country is exploited for the purpose of providing yours with cheap cocoa/tobacco/coffee/cotton, and therefore not for the cultivation of food, when all the revenues from the production of these foreign crops go out of the country where they are produced, it's impossible for the local agriculture to provide for its own people. 

Meritocracy is a simplistic and false solution to a terribly complex problem.



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