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RE: retirement and stay-at-home subs? - 5/11/2008 7:22:09 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor

Well here are My thoughts on that topic--being the realist that I am---and I am in your age bracket too--so things to contemplate:

1. Gas prices will be at $5.00 a gallon by end of summer wheat and rice products are increasing weekly-- can you afford to accomplish certain things on one income? Like the basics of eating, grocery shopping, seeing children/extended family, etc ( note I didnt mention any luxuries)

2. At our age, medical bills will increase--can you afford or are you covered on his policy?

3. When you stop working your SS stops growing---if you split at 60 can you live on what you would get?

4. If you quit working and you two fall apart, are you in a profession that at 50,55 or 60 would rehire you in a heartbeat?

5. Is he going to have a life insurance policy and YOU as the benificiary?

At our age, quitting depenadable jobs, losing SS contributions and facing no health insurance---IS FOOLHARDY--doesn't matter IMHO what the D wants--reality sucks but it is what it is and fantasy has to be set aside it.

This echos my feelings 100%. My mother lived by the same philosophy as eyesopened and is now living in a hovel in SW Colorado with nothing, barely able to buy groceries, unable to get the medical care she needs, etc etc etc.

I plan on enjoying my life. I want to be able to spend time with loved ones regardless of where they live. I cannot afford to support and provide for a slave in a manner that I feel is responsible. I am very clear with anyone I talk to, forget the M/s romance novel and be realistic. Any girl that wants to belong to me is going to work enough to have healthcare, and put money in a savings acct. If one of us decides she needs to leave, she is not destitute.

I love the romantic ideal of "come belong to me, serve me 24/7 with no other master or mistress.....yada yada yada" It may be possible for others. It may not be irresponsible to others. But I know myself. I have high standards for my own personal responsibility to others. Leaving some woman with nothing, having to live as my mother is right now......I could not stand myself or have any self respect.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to MladyHathor)

Post #: 21

RE: retirement and stay-at-home subs? - 5/11/2008 7:27:12 AM

OldBastardly1

Posts: 651
Joined: 7/22/2006
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

This echos my feelings 100%. My mother lived by the same philosophy as eyesopened and is now living in a hovel in SW Colorado with nothing, barely able to buy groceries, unable to get the medical care she needs, etc etc etc.

I plan on enjoying my life. I want to be able to spend time with loved ones regardless of where they live. I cannot afford to support and provide for a slave in a manner that I feel is responsible. I am very clear with anyone I talk to, forget the M/s romance novel and be realistic. Any girl that wants to belong to me is going to work enough to have healthcare, and put money in a savings acct. If one of us decides she needs to leave, she is not destitute.

I love the romantic ideal of "come belong to me, serve me 24/7 with no other master or mistress.....yada yada yada" It may be possible for others. It may not be irresponsible to others. But I know myself. I have high standards for my own personal responsibility to others. Leaving some woman with nothing, having to live as my mother is right now......I could not stand myself or have any self respect.

Absolutely. Thank you for posting this.

_____________________________

Old Bastard

"You cannot make footprints in the sands of time if you're sitting on your butt. And who wants to make buttprints in the sands of time?" -- Bob Moawad

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 22

RE: retirement and stay-at-home subs? - 5/11/2008 7:39:05 AM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

I am along the same lines of logic as LaT.
I insist that my boys know how to manage their own money, and understand that they are at the point now to begin thinking about retirement. Neither of them had, of course, since neither was even 25 yet. I am 31, and I have been having finiancial problems that took a large piece out of the savings I had started for a retirement. Even though both will (if I get what I want) be 24/7 live in. Both will be expected to have jobs until they can no longer work. Angel will be allowed to work from home if it can be arranged, but they will both bring in incomes. Why should I struggle to support everyone and live meagerly when I have 2 able bodied boys serving me? There is nothing in my home that could EVER require 24/7 care, we would be at most 3 people living there. No house can need that much work when ther eare only 3 adults there.
This was al things we discussed in the initial stages of our relationships. They were required to finsih their educations (Angel just graduated, Fox does so in about 2 years). After graduation they are required to hold GOOD jobs, not just getting jobs for pocket money, since they do have educations. Angel is in computers, and will be going into the military at the end of the summer if all goes well. Fox is studying to be a teacher. Lastly, both are going to be required to set up a retirement fund through their jobs. Angel already has one and Fox will start one when he gets a job outside from school.
Planning for your future, together or separate, is always important. If you cannot afford to put away, then you cannot afford not to be working. If you cannot put away now, then when you no longer have the option to work, you will need as much income as you can manage. Keep in mind, expenses do not go down when you retire, but incoming money does.
Ive seen what my parents are going through now becasue my mother was a stay at home all her life. While Dad was working, she had no problem raising 2 kids on one salary, and all that. Problem is, now, that Dad's retirment package is no where close to his yearly income when he was working, and Mom gets nothing since she never worked. My brother still lives with them so he can be an additional source of income in the house, and I help out where I can. But it made me realize that I do NOT want to be in that position in 30 or 40 years. And as a responsable owner, I wont allow the boys to be either. It is not a matter of planning for success or failure of the relationship. Just for planing. If we are together in our golden years, we wil have the combined residuals of all our planning. If one has split they take theirs with them. Either way, it is a plan that means when we are needing that money we put away for so long, it will be there and be waiting.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to OldBastardly1)

Post #: 23

RE: retirement and stay-at-home subs? - 5/11/2008 9:10:08 AM

kiwisub12

Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

And as a responsable owner, I wont allow the boys to be either. DV

I guess this is what i was thinking of - a responsible owner - or sub or slave.

I have a house that i am no longer living in, so i am still paying the mortgage on it, and my um adults are living in. In time as they go away , i would like to rent it out and have that pay the mortgage. Until that happens i can't think of staying home with Sir, but (sigh) its a lovely thought.

I wasn't indoctrinated in the idea of saving for retirement as a kid/young adult, and now wish i was. I have been saving for retirement - sporatically - as my fianances warrented - but would be in so much better position if it had been years earlier.
Part of why i made this post was to maybe put a bug in a few peoples ear , so they won't be in the same position of not being able to do what they want at 50 ... or 60 .... or 70. I always felt sorry of the 70somethings working at Dillards, when they looked as if they couldn't walk across the counterspace, much less the store width.
But i was also interested in how longterm relationships in the bdsm genre handled this issue. Thanks to all that have responded.

I work in the medical field, and one of the first things i tell students coming through, is to pay into a retirement account, even if it is just $20 a month. If they can listen to the voice of experience, then i am satisfied.(smug, self-depreciating smile)

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

Post #: 24

RE: retirement and stay-at-home subs? - 5/11/2008 9:12:30 AM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

This echos my feelings 100%. My mother lived by the same philosophy as eyesopened and is now living in a hovel in SW Colorado with nothing, barely able to buy groceries, unable to get the medical care she needs, etc etc etc.

Are you implying that making sure i have my priorities straight and making my decisions based on my priorities is going to doom me to living in a hovel?? How in the world did you get that idea from the philosophy that "For that which is truly important, time and money will be found?"
"finding" money and time doesn't mean living on wishes and thoughts of winning the lottery. "finding" money means putting money into a savings account instead of buying more shoes. It means thithing to oneself, as a priority. "finding" money means knowing what is truly important rather than living in the moment.

Examining what a person has the time and/or money for will reveal their priorities. You can say you want to plan for retirement but if you can never find money to put into a 401k but have money to buy a new Louis Vitton handbag...well... what really is your priority?

No, my philosophy will not send me to a hovel. my philosophy has always made sure that my family was well taken care of, that *i* am well taken care of and my future is well taken care of.

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 25

RE: retirement and stay-at-home subs? - 5/11/2008 9:20:22 AM

kiwisub12

Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline

Part of what bought this up for me was that Sir and i had a girl living with us who wasn't working, didn't have her GED, and had no medical insurance.
She wasn't interested in getting her GED or a job - which made me most uncomfortable on a couple of levels.
1. If she stayed for years, and Sir died, was i to support her, even though i am not bi - but could i turf her out, with not skills or money or any means for supporting herself. Admittedly she was doing all the cooking and housework, but i didn't need someone to do that for me, and as sweet as she was, she wasn't my cup of tea for a live-in roommate.
2. With no health insurance, what would happen if she became ill, or needed dental care, or even needed a medication long term. Could we as a household afford it?
3. Was it the right thing to do to have her live in and do housework and have no money to call her own? Should she get an allowance, or "mad money"?

Interestingly enough, it felt as if i was the only one worried about these things. I wanted her to get a job parttime, and bank it. I also wanted her to go to adult education classed and get her GED - and Sir agreed. She didn't work out for Sir as a sub, and left, but i was left thinking of these questions.

Ah ... the perils of an overactive mind!!

(in reply to kiwisub12)

Post #: 26

RE: retirement and stay-at-home subs? - 5/11/2008 9:39:18 AM

BOUNTYHUNTER

Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline

I believe one should continue to work as long as they are able of doing so,I am retired,Diane works when she wants and any young sub/slave that enters into any type of living in relationship must continue to hold outside employment,DO I need the additional income,NO I don't, but what would happen say down the road 2-5 years if either one of us decided to terminate the relationship..One needs to work as long as possible to assure their future unless you are owned by an independently wealthy daddy smiles..

_____________________________

US going to hell in a hand basket/

(in reply to eyesopened)

Post #: 27

RE: retirement and stay-at-home subs? - 5/11/2008 10:03:13 AM

MsLilac

Posts: 151
Joined: 5/31/2007
Status: offline

First of all, sod the romantic notions, money is money. It is necessary for normal survival. Who wants to be 65 and broke? You are not mercenary or unromantic for thinking about your future, just incredibly sensible. You need to take responsibility for your own financial future, by thinking about it, that's what you are doing.

My attitude with myself and mine is that we all provide for our own futures. We all contribute to the household, and I oversee their finances (they seek permission for big spends), but for all intents and purposes, they have control their own money. We all plan on being together come retirement, but nothing is guaranteed. If things don’t work out, each of us is financially independent. If things work out, then we have a bit more than needed. It is, financially speaking, win-win.

IMO, yes, it is something that should be discussed during negotiations, particularly, if one or both of the couple are in their more mature years, it would be silly not to. But, as you have said, your master can’t afford to put away for himself, let alone you, so it is short sighted to ask you to stay at home. What are you suppose to do at retirement?

To answer your other question, lets say sub enters a relationship, where it is mutually agreed that he/she will stay home. Sub has 15 years left to retirement. Sub gives up work/career to look after household and master/mistress. Mistress/master has been putting away money for sub (supposedly not into a pension fund in subs name), but somewhere along those 15 years, the relationship breaks down. I actually don’t think it is unreasonable for sub to expect those funds. Both gave up something valuable to work towards a common goal. Sub has done their part, I don‘t think it would be fair for sub to walk away with no security, after giving up their own personal financial security for the relationship. Giving up work for a relationship is a big financial sacrifice, how easy would it be to start all over again at any age, let alone being in ones more mature years?

_____________________________

I’m sorry, I don’t do autographs

(in reply to kiwisub12)

Post #: 28

RE: retirement and stay-at-home subs? - 5/11/2008 10:17:05 AM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BOUNTYHUNTER

I believe one should continue to work as long as they are able of doing so,I am retired,Diane works when she wants and any young sub/slave that enters into any type of living in relationship must continue to hold outside employment,DO I need the additional income,NO I don't, but what would happen say down the road 2-5 years if either one of us decided to terminate the relationship..One needs to work as long as possible to assure their future unless you are owned by an independently wealthy daddy smiles..

i worked for a company from which i will receive a pension, in addition to Social Security when i retire. i could stay put for another year and earn yet a second pension. InkedMaster would rather i relocate. If i can transfer within the same unbrella company, i can retain my tenure for pension. That's sort of the plan. i have a total indebtedness of roughly one month's salary. Not much. i tend to not buy what i do not have the cash on hand to buy. In addition, i hold a license that pretty much gurantees i can work just about anywhere and i will never be destitute. We have discussed the thought of my using that license to work part time. Depending on how hard i want to work, i could do extremely well working 3-4 days out of the week. Again, it boils down to priorities.

my "philosophy" simply means that if you want something badly enough you will find ways to make it happen. Successful cottage industries have been born from such a philosophy. Sitting on ones ass waiting for the time one can afford something is no better than sitting on ones ass waiting for the PowerBall to roll ones way. i also get irritated with people who put money before time. We don't always get an equal amount of brains, beauty, talent or income but we all get 24 hours in a day. Spend that wisely and everything else will take care of itself.

Sorry, but the thought that having a clear focus on what i want, what my Master wants, and making choices today based on our shared future, will wind us up not being able to pay for groceries or medical care just pisses me off.

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to BOUNTYHUNTER)

Post #: 29

RE: retirement and stay-at-home subs? - 5/11/2008 11:48:58 AM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14449
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

We both have 401ks and some investments. Honestly, because the 401k is through my employer, it's a pre-tax deduction and because my taxes are based on the lower income pretty much comes out that same as if I hadn't taken that money out. It's pretty painless.

My personal view, is that if a Dominant requires a submissive to give up a career and stay home to the point where they are no longer employable.....then they should be responsible for the well being of the submissive. The point here being the word "requires".

Personally, I'd be miserable as a stay at home person.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to eyesopened)

Post #: 30

RE: retirement and stay-at-home subs? - 5/11/2008 1:04:03 PM

kiwisub12

Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
Sitting on ones ass waiting for the time one can afford something is no better than sitting on ones ass waiting for the PowerBall to roll ones way.

you mean ........ i'm not going to win the powerball???????????

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(in reply to eyesopened)

Post #: 31

RE: retirement and stay-at-home subs? - 5/11/2008 1:05:20 PM

Maya2001

Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline

quote:

i worked for a company from which i will receive a pension, in addition to Social Security when i retire. i could stay put for another year and earn yet a second pension. InkedMaster would rather i relocate.

That means you had sufficient income and retirement benefit to be able to make that decision for yourself by budgeting your money..... not everyone is in that position...if I walk away from my job I get my severance package only .no company pension and the government pension is roughly $600 not enough to even pay for a hovel... I have put some money away in RRSPs but it would only last a year, I started late saving, had raised a child on my own on poverty wages, it was not till later in life I finally had a decent working wage and now that money is trying to pay a mortgage very modest home worth about $160K due to compounded interest I will end up paying around $250K and am trying to pay off before I retire and car payments food, untilities repairs etc on less than 30K of disposable income which minimizes the amount I can put into RRSPs .. and believe me there is no Louis Vutton bags here just Walmart sales specials...the only time I have ever spent more than a $100 on a dress was when I was 18(over 30 years ago) when i rarely do buy one I have oftem bought good used instead ...I don't go out to coffee shops to buy coffee I drink mostly instant and take a thermos of and sandwich to work, I home cook rather than buy prepared foods....if you have the income available to change priorities than that is an option but again not everyone has that option.... this is why that retirement pension is so important to me it is not an option it is protection from possibly being destitute since I don't have sufficient savings and the goverment pension is not high enough to live off of. since the working retirement pension is considerably lower than my income I have to have my home paid off before I can retire, if I move in with a dom later I would likely keep the home as rental income since the house is paid off it also guarantees me a place to move to in the event the relationship ends for some reason that way I am only paying for utilities and repairs which is cheaper than renting a decent apartment

_____________________________

Lead me not into temptation - I can find the way myself

(in reply to eyesopened)

Post #: 32

RE: retirement and stay-at-home subs? - 5/11/2008 2:05:37 PM

KruelKarol

Posts: 13
Joined: 5/7/2008
Status: offline

kiwisub12, even tho your issue is now resolved
you show remarkable ethics in thinking of the girl and her future.
In another parallel your honorable consideration is surely recorded. heh .

Just one suggestion for resolution of this issue which is at the root of so much anger and hysteria when any couple or family breaks up in any group, vanilla hetero or TG bondings or FOLKISH handfastings.

For all of us it seems to me to make sense to establish a FAMILY TRUST which nowadays can
be done cheaply by an online service.
All assets are put into the TRUST and any family
or household members get portions based on
length of time devoted to growing the FAMILY TRUST as in purchased large tag items.

Any properties purchased by the group would
be put into a Property Trust OR a Real Estate Trust.

Any businesses opened by group each would be
in a seperate TRUST. IF any member wants to leave HIR ( femininst word for his/her or him/her ) share of any of the TRUSTS is BOUGHT OUT
by the TRUST .

All assets belong to the TRUST and no one person
can remove or take away any asset or packages of assets.

Not possible for anyone to run off with any assets !!

GOOD ONE !

And no TRUST can be sued. ever.

many more benefits in establishing TRUSTS
such as what must be done with MY
remains, and of course all MY share goes
back to TRUST for benefit ofall survivors.
.no need for wills. just write codiciles into
TRUST minutes.

No one is allowed to tell of any assets of any TRUST as it is a violation of LAW and govt cannot make a TRUST open its list of holdings.

If it makes a profit it must pay a tax.
Any one here who can read between the lines knows well what that means. LOL!

NO TRUST has EVER been broken since it
was set up underBritish Common Law in
1735 (? I may be a bit off on date )

A TRUST is protected INTERNATIONALLY.

Until the last thirty years or so this was for only the
super rich and kept quiet from we the masses.

Times ARE a changin' and BLESS this NET!
Hope this gives some an ALT way to settle
a problem that has destroyed many a relationship and family.

KK

.

(in reply to Maya2001)

Post #: 33

RE: retirement and stay-at-home subs? - 5/12/2008 3:12:22 PM

bondagebottom

Posts: 2
Joined: 7/30/2006
Status: offline

I was just a few weeks away from becoming a 24/7/365 slave. I would; have turned over my entire retirement and ssi income without any desire for recompense. Since my other assets were meager (car, small bank account) it was relatively easy for me to make that move. I thought it right and still do that a slave, a true slave, not a d/s loving relationship should be totally one sided. As it happened a family crises occurred and my Mistress made the decision that i should remain alone to tend to family. That was HER decision. It broke my heart as i have never found anyone like Her. I would have given up all rights, even unto death and there was never a hint of sex. That is far too extreme for 99% of those into BDSM or PEP. but you asked.

(in reply to eyesopened)

Post #: 34

RE: retirement and stay-at-home subs? - 5/12/2008 3:39:26 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

I think a lot of people in this thread misunderstood what you were asking here. The answer to what you asked is pretty simple: if it's financially possible, you should do it; since it's not financially possible, you can't do it. Obviously a sub/slave has to reach a certain level of trust with a dom/master before it's reasonable to start talking about anything like giving up a job, but for people who have reached that level, and have planned responsibly for their future, it could be one of the best life decisions of all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

My Sir would love for me to be able to give up my job and be a stay-at-home sub. It isn't financially possible at this time for me to do so, but, if i could , should i?

I am 50 years old, and looking at retirement in 15 or 17 years, and he can't afford to put money away for my or his retirement.

(in reply to kiwisub12)

Post #: 35

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