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philosophy -> food (4/29/2008 10:06:45 AM)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7372393.stm

....what responsibility to we, the world community, have towards those affected by the rise in world food prices?



celticlord2112 -> RE: food (4/29/2008 10:44:57 AM)

Responsibility? None whatsoever.

Compassion and caring are great virtues, but they are never obligations.



hisannabelle -> RE: food (4/29/2008 11:12:52 AM)

i think we all have a responsibility.

i think our governments have a responsibility to put restrictions on entities like monsanto and the world bank.

i was deeply struck by the issue of water shortage recently when a friend who lives in jordan was talking about how they only get water for maybe 6-12 hours a week. i know there are areas in the world where there is a terrible food and water shortage, and i even know people who live or have lived in these areas, but i often feel so insulated and i forget that this is a reality of life for some. we have to educate ourselves.



ownedgirlie -> RE: food (4/29/2008 11:27:30 AM)

There was a young man from Nigeria in one of my classes last year.  He was telling us how in the village where he was raised, everyone looked out for each other.  If one man was out of work, others in the village would help him find a job, and would bring his family food and goods while they were in need. 

He said it was considered that your family wasn't just comprised of your parents and siblings, but of your entire village.  He said when he was very young, they suffered a hard drought.  Crops were dying, and people were hungry.  He did not know which organization it was, but he remembered food and water coming in from world help organizations.  The entire village was amazed at the help they were receiving, from strangers across the globe.  He said at that moment, he discovered, "The world is my family."

It gave me goosebumps to hear that story.  We can not survive alone.  However big we choose to make our circle of outreach...however far we want our ripples to stretch, is up to us. 



Hippiekinkster -> RE: food (4/29/2008 12:25:31 PM)

ON the roof of the former prison, enterprising women prepare something that looks like biscuits and is even called by that name. The key ingredient, yellow clay, is trucked in from the nearby mountains. The clay is combined with salt and vegetable fat to make dough, which is then dried in the sun.
For many Haitians, the mud biscuits are their only food. They taste of fat, suck the moisture out of the mouth and leave behind an aftertaste of dirt. They often cause diarrhea, but they help to numb the pangs of hunger. "I'm hoping one day I'll have enough food to eat, so I can stop eating these," Marie Noël, who survives with her seven children on the dirt cakes, told the Associated Press.



FROM THE MAGAZINE

[image]http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,78647,00.gif[/image] Find out how you can reprint this DER SPIEGEL article in your publication. The clay to make 100 of the biscuits costs $5 (€3.15) and has risen by $1.50 (€0.95), or about 40 percent, within one year. The same is true of staple foods. Nevertheless, the same amount of money buys more of the mud cakes than bread or corn tortillas. A daily bowl of rice is almost unaffordable.



Hippiekinkster -> RE: food (4/29/2008 12:34:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Responsibility? None whatsoever.

Compassion and caring are great virtues, but they are never obligations.
Yeah, fuck 'em. Filthy peasants. Should stop breeding.
Dying of Wall Street-induced hunger? "Get over it."
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,549187,00.html
Viva Capitalismo.



popeye1250 -> RE: food (4/29/2008 12:43:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7372393.stm

....what responsibility to we, the world community, have towards those affected by the rise in world food prices?


The same responsibility that they have to us who are affected by the rise in gas prices.



Termyn8or -> RE: food (4/29/2008 12:58:53 PM)

"Marie Noël, who survives with her seven children on the dirt cakes, told the Associated Press"

Everybody in here listen to me right now. I am one of the best in my field, the world is my oyster, and I have no kids BY CHOICE. I have never fucked without a rubber and I never will.

What the fuck is Ms Noel doing having seven fucking kids ? Now we feed them and each of those kids will have seven kids, then we got 49 kids to feed. In another 12-16 years we will have 343 kids to feed. Just for fun, let's go one more time, in 24-32 years we will have 2,401 kids to feed.

You think I am unaffected knowing that shit like this goes on ? You are sadly mistaken. But a MAN knows when to say NO. Let seven starve now and you have saved 2,401 later. That will be in your lifetime most likely.

And that is because they won't stop. They won't, it is a proven fact. They didn't, what makes you think they will ?

I think anyone who has kids they are unable to support should be sterilized. Harsh ? Try starving to death. Try living with bugs crawling all over you because your sire and bearer did not have the self control to do SOMETHING to prevent an unwanted pregnancy. I do not call these people Parents.

Or is someone going to try to tell me that a scant few years ago everything was hunky dory and they all had swimming pools and all kinds of money and something came and wiped it all out overnight ? How old is Ms Noel's youngest ?

Harsh ? Yes but less harsh than the alternative. Necessary ? ABSOLUTELY. We are all headed for those conditions, and it is not going to be pretty.

Having more than two kids is now a luxury. In an agrarian society you might need some kids to help with the chores, yes, there were some good reasons, but today it is a luxury and if you have seven kids, PAY TO SUPPORT THEM.

There are exceptions, Tsunami victims, Katrina victims. Yes indications were that they could afford kids. Things were going good, but then shit happened. That I can understand. But when  this shit goes on for generations it is ridiculous.

Yes this is harsh, but if we do not do something, it will be us starving. The writing is on the wall.

I got my asbestos suit on BTW, have at it, I am not backing down one iota.

You want the truth fine, if you want bullshit, talk to someone else. If we don't do something about these people who fuck like rabbits, we are all doomed. And that my friends, is the truth.

T



popeye1250 -> RE: food (4/29/2008 1:15:10 PM)

Term, there is a lot of truth in what you say.
I was watching a program last week and they said we're (the planet) is adding 70 million people per year to the population.
America is the breadbasket to the world but our resources are going to be strained in the near future and there are no large "stockpiles" of food in the world.
That just wouldn't be feasable to do anyway. I mean who'd pay for it?
Instead of stealing all the money that the West has given those third world countries over the last 40 years they should have been investing it in infrastructure and agriculture.
So, if you're the president one day in the future what choice do you make between feeding your own people or people in third world countries?
There's not much to think about there.
I've said it for years now that third world countries need to start being *responsable* for their own people, I'm certainly not going to be.



Hippiekinkster -> RE: food (4/29/2008 1:17:07 PM)

Yeah, too many people, no doubt. So what has been the majority party and the fundie response to the problem? "Just Say No". Yeah, that's helpful. No condoms, no education, just "stop fucking". Right.



hisannabelle -> RE: food (4/29/2008 1:29:12 PM)

wow, term, i do believe that's the most insulated, patronizing, childish, uneducated assessment of the situation i've heard lately. YOU have the blessing of HAVING condoms available to you. YOU are male, and thus you also have the blessing of usually picking and choosing when you HAVE sex at all; you are the one with the dick, so you also get to pick and choose whether there's  a rubber on it. you live in a country where most women, if they can afford it, have hormonal birth control available to them. you have information about sex education, stds, and contraception readily available to you. when you have BEEN in that situation, maybe i'll actually take your bullshit seriously.



hisannabelle -> RE: food (4/29/2008 1:32:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7372393.stm

....what responsibility to we, the world community, have towards those affected by the rise in world food prices?


The same responsibility that they have to us who are affected by the rise in gas prices.


wow, that's FUCKED UP. because your body requires gas in order to live to the same degree that theirs requires food?



slaveboyforyou -> RE: food (4/29/2008 1:52:21 PM)

Well one thing we and other countries do is subsidize farmers for growing or not growing certain crops, and that needs to stop.  There is no reason what so ever that farmers shouldn't have to compete like every other business.  Subsidies drive down world crop prices, and farmers in poor countries can't compete.  So they lose their land, and the agriculture of the country as a whole never develops.  So the poor countries become dependent on our food, rather than being able to feed themselves.  Farm subsidies are nothing more than welfare for farmers, and it's ridiculous because most of our farms now are operated by huge corporations.  It doesn't just affect the poor third world folks.  We all have to pay more for food that would cost less if there was competition. 



popeye1250 -> RE: food (4/29/2008 2:34:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Yeah, too many people, no doubt. So what has been the majority party and the fundie response to the problem? "Just Say No". Yeah, that's helpful. No condoms, no education, just "stop fucking". Right.


Hippie, the Democrats have been the majority party for a year and a half now.
What is all this stuff about us "giving" them stuff?
We've been "giving" these countries money for 40 years now.
When do they get up off their asses and start doing for themselves?



Termyn8or -> RE: food (4/29/2008 2:42:55 PM)

anna, well I don't know exactly what to say. However I am not going through your points like a laundry list, like some people do.

When you call my post childish and uneducated it makes me wonder about your point of view. Childish ? OK I learned my math multiplication table a long time ago. Can you multiply be seven ? It can be a bit hard to do in your head.

But the fact of the matter is this, I EARNED what I have, and I do not fuck without a rubber. Now in China, they exported so much rice they had to cut back because their own people could no longer afford it. They are already overpopulated and take proactive measures to abate the situation. They MUST, or they are doomed.

The uneducated statement, I am just just going to let that blow by, because you really do not want to know the curriculum I followed as I educated myself. Many would be amazed at what I can do and/or build. That is however not to say that I am in any way superior to anyone else, but I am certainly more educated in some fields. What I am not educated in is the mamby pamby lovey dovey socialistically driven bullshit that is propogated by the schools.

Insulated, yes, I am always insulated when I fuck.

Now let's get down to the other half of this (you might be sorry)

Where did Ms Noel learn to make those mudpies ? I suggest that it may be from her sire and bearer who had to somehow feed her and her six siblings. So let's redo the math, we were at 2,401 so taking that back a generation would mean that now we are feeding 16,807.

If you can't see the numbers for what they are, perhaps it is you who are uneducated, but I am not saying that right now. I will await another response first. Of course the problem could be that you are too "educated", that is indoctrinated. Many are imbued with such empathy for people who make their own problems that you don't see the forest because of all those damn trees.

The cycle must stop, even in the US. I mean all welfare, food stamps everything. If you have kids and can't feed them they starve. That is it, I did not make them. If that makes me insulated, then I am proud of it because it is something I EARNED.

Your description 'patronizing' puzzles me. I think it possible that you used the wrong word there. If you would give me your definition of that word I will respond to the point, but at this point in time either your definition is wrong, or mine. However even if you are wrong, give me your current definition so I may understand the context in which you used the word. Perhaps I misunderstand it, but I think that post was one of the most unpatronizing around. But I have been wrong before, so have at it.

And about my situation, you extoll all of the advantages put to me, like a drugstore and money so I can buy condoms. I will not disagree. (how does that grab ya ?) You are absolutely right. But the fact of the matter is that you really haven't made a valid point.

Forgive my bluntness, but if I were living in a fucking hole in the ground or a hut, and was eating dirt, the last thing on my mind would be getting a piece of ass. First I would think about food. And your statement also implies that Women in these contries do not have the right to refuse any Man that wants sex, condom or not. Is that the way it is there ? If so they should do what they do here when somebody's Wife falls out of love, wreck him financially.

And not the least, with the fucking Cathoics involved they are not getting condoms. Why not ? I guess the Catholics can't do math, perhaps that's why they have no hope of ever counting the money they have bilked out of billions of people. But then if they sent condoms instead of food, they would have no starving kids to put on the TV screen to extract more money.

Last but not least, OK do not take my bullshit seriously, let me hear your's. I am serious. Do you have one single idea on how to fix this problem ? Hey, like I said I don't like seeing it either, and I have a viable plan to fix it, which is to just stop, or supply condoms and free sterilizations. Do you have one single other idea that might be effective ? If so I am very interested in hearing about it.

If you have been imbued with so much charity that you will do it even if it costs you your life and that of your descendents, you are truly insane. They say give till it hurts, fuck them. I got plenty more, you have any idea what the CEO of United way made last year ? Do you realize that up until a few years ago they bought their employees cigarettes as a perk ? Do you know how rich these MFs are on TV who bring you the news of these starving children ? They know. And you should know that money came from donations.

They only disburse enough of it to maintain the crop of starving children for next year on TV. That's because they got caught years ago, promising pictures of THE CHILD your $12 per month was sponsoring. A few of them eventually met up and found out they were getting the same pictures, the same story and the same letters.

I would be all for sending condoms, and I would contribute. But not one iota of my food, nor anyone else's who has earned every ort they eat.

T



Hippiekinkster -> RE: food (4/29/2008 2:43:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Yeah, too many people, no doubt. So what has been the majority party and the fundie response to the problem? "Just Say No". Yeah, that's helpful. No condoms, no education, just "stop fucking". Right.


Hippie, the Democrats have been the majority party for a year and a half now.
What is all this stuff about us "giving" them stuff?
15 months = 18 months? Okey-doke.

Which would you rather give away (that's what our "foreign aid" is, giving money with the stipulation that it will all be spent on US shit), weapons or condoms?

Repubs were majority party since, what, 94? And they didn't do fuck-all. Don't go pissing and moaning about the Dems when the Smirking Chimp stops any progress with his "signing statements" (oh, boy, is that gonna come back and bite the repubs in the ass. Good.).



Hippiekinkster -> RE: food (4/29/2008 2:48:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

wow, term, i do believe that's the most insulated, patronizing, childish, uneducated assessment of the situation i've heard lately. YOU have the blessing of HAVING condoms available to you. YOU are male, and thus you also have the blessing of usually picking and choosing when you HAVE sex at all; you are the one with the dick, so you also get to pick and choose whether there's  a rubber on it. you live in a country where most women, if they can afford it, have hormonal birth control available to them. you have information about sex education, stds, and contraception readily available to you. when you have BEEN in that situation, maybe i'll actually take your bullshit seriously.

Amen, sister. Here's some good stuff about population growth and unsustainability and how the people who point at the underdeveloped countrie and tell them to get their shit together have it completely backwards. This is part 7. Part 8 is connected.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RyseLQVpJEI&feature=PlayList&p=6A1FD147A45EF50D&index=6&playnext=7&playnext_from=PL

Not that certain people will pay any attention. I mean, the guy's only a Professor Emeritus of Physics, not a big brain like Rush or Hannity.



popeye1250 -> RE: food (4/29/2008 2:48:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Yeah, too many people, no doubt. So what has been the majority party and the fundie response to the problem? "Just Say No". Yeah, that's helpful. No condoms, no education, just "stop fucking". Right.


Hippie, the Democrats have been the majority party for a year and a half now.
What is all this stuff about us "giving" them stuff?
15 months = 18 months? Okey-doke.

Which would you rather give away (that's what our "foreign aid" is, giving money with the stipulation that it will all be spent on US shit), weapons or condoms?

Repubs were majority party since, what, 94? And they didn't do fuck-all. Don't go pissing and moaning about the Dems when the Smirking Chimp stops any progress with his "signing statements" (oh, boy, is that gonna come back and bite the repubs in the ass. Good.).


Hippie, I don't believe in foreign aid.
It's just not our government's job to be doing that kind of thing!
The money is stolen by Lobbyists and big corporations anyway.
If individuals want to help out of their own funds then fine, that's the way it should be done.
Our taxdollars should be spent in this country, if not then give that money back to the Taxpayers to whom it rightly belongs!



GoddessDustyGold -> RE: food (4/29/2008 3:01:24 PM)

~FR~ 
I remember reading "The Good Earth" when I was much younger.  I found the story (by Pearl Buck) and the culture to be absolutely fascinating.  It remains one of My favorite novels of all time.
At one point in the storyline, the entire village in China was suffering a terrible drought and famine.  The people literally had nothing to eat.  Olan was with child.  She barely had the strength to deliver the babe who was also weak.  As her spouse Wang Lung, waited outside the curtain.  He heard a frail cry and then nothing.  Olan took the child's life herself, in order that there would be more food for the family already trying to survive.  She also knew that she would be unable to nurse the child herself in her state of malnutrition.  Wang Lung realized what she had done, and not a word passed between them regarding her decision.  As hard as it was, it was, in that culture and that time, the only logical response to a horrendous situation. 
That was hard for Me to read as a 19 or 20 year old.  But Term has a point.  I would not want to be so harsh, but I am looking towards the future for Me and Mine.  We are not that far away from being in a similar position.  Time was that we would not have been so aware of these problems in nations so far away.  Now we have the knowledge, and that seems to automatically place a responsibility to "fix" it for them.  But we really cannot in all practicality. 
Unless something serious gives as to how food is grown, paid for and distributed, we will continue to plow crops under, waste crops on altenative fuels that have been shown to be more expensive to process and less efficient to distribute for use, while people, even in our own great nation (USA) go to bed hungry. 
I would like to feed them all.  But first I have to worry about feeding Myself.  And that is getting harder and harder to do. 
Bottom line is that we do not have a responsibility.  We can certainly make a humanitarian choice, however, if we have a surplus. In others words...if sharing a surplus does not affect our own, then morally it is the right thing to do. 
Unfortunately, that is not the current state of affairs for most.  And, hard as that is, people need to start realizing that.



Hippiekinkster -> RE: food (4/29/2008 3:11:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Yeah, too many people, no doubt. So what has been the majority party and the fundie response to the problem? "Just Say No". Yeah, that's helpful. No condoms, no education, just "stop fucking". Right.


Hippie, the Democrats have been the majority party for a year and a half now.
What is all this stuff about us "giving" them stuff?
15 months = 18 months? Okey-doke.

Which would you rather give away (that's what our "foreign aid" is, giving money with the stipulation that it will all be spent on US shit), weapons or condoms?

Repubs were majority party since, what, 94? And they didn't do fuck-all. Don't go pissing and moaning about the Dems when the Smirking Chimp stops any progress with his "signing statements" (oh, boy, is that gonna come back and bite the repubs in the ass. Good.).


Hippie, I don't believe in foreign aid.
It's just not our government's job to be doing that kind of thing!
The money is stolen by Lobbyists and big corporations anyway.
If individuals want to help out of their own funds then fine, that's the way it should be done.
Our taxdollars should be spent in this country, if not then give that money back to the Taxpayers to whom it rightly belongs!
I believe strongly in Humanitarian aid. If any problems are going to be solved or attenuated, it's going to be through programs like the peace Corps and Vista, where people go to poor areas of the world and educate. Educate in birth control. Educate in nutrition. Educate in sanitation. Educate in sustainable (non-chemical) agriculture.

If we are really a governmet of the People, then I choose to spend tax dollars in that way. If we are controlled by corporations (a Capitocracy), then it's time for a revolution, and I do not share the "Libertarian" view.

I remain convinced that there are no food shortages, there are distortions in allocation due to unrestrained speculation. And that, killing people through starvation to make a few bucks for a hedge fund or investment club, is every bit as evil as putting people into Konzentrationslager and starving them there.



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