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Slavery Vs. Neurosis - 4/26/2008 12:27:23 PM   
MladyHathor


Posts: 510
Joined: 4/6/2008
Status: offline 		I read here often that a "real slave"--is one who acts, follows and obeys without question--their very being exists for the will and the pleasure of the Master---what is the line between healthy "devotion" and neurotic addiction?

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RE: Slavery Vs. Neurosis - 4/26/2008 12:29:18 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		One makes me feel good and fulfilled inside, the other has me unsettled, unsure, and perpetually nervous.

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RE: Slavery Vs. Neurosis - 4/26/2008 12:32:56 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I think perhaps some are co-dependent, at least I am able to easily make that jump from what is posted on the message board.  Someone who is self-aware and understands what they need in order to be fulfilled is different from someone who is desperate and in need of approval and gives up who they are in order to have a relationship.  I think that anyone who is healthy has boundaries and acts accordingly.  

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RE: Slavery Vs. Neurosis - 4/26/2008 12:40:42 PM   
MastrVran


Posts: 354
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor

I read here often that a "real slave"--is one who acts, follows and obeys without question--their very being exists for the will and the pleasure of the Master---what is the line between healthy "devotion" and neurotic addiction?


Thats a very simplified version of slave lol. The ability to follow the commands of your master, and not to feel a need to question him about why he is requiring something comes not from addiction or even devotion. But from a belief that he can be trusted and make the correct decisions.

The concept that a slave has needs that are strongly oriented toward pleasing their master and devoting their life to this desire so that the master gets pleased and the slave has their inner need of serving their master met, is something that allows everyone to benefit as to get what they want. If all you want is to occasionally make your master happy, then you arent a slave but a submissive is more what this is driving at. There is a point at which you change over from submissive to slave. This is trying to lay a simplistic way to gauge that change. Do you have the internal need to please to such an extent you can strive to always do this. No one will. Everyone makes mistakes, but do you feel such a deep seated need? If not then you are a submissive. 

Is this neurotic? Is wanting to control someone meglomaniacal? I guess it all depends on to what lengths you will go to in order to get your desires satisfied. Does the simple fact that serving someone deeply and with commitment make you insane in some way? I suppose it all depends on who you ask. To me, no, they are not neurotic. Just dedicated and  willing to do what ever they can to please me as well as fill the desires and needs they themself have. 

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RE: Slavery Vs. Neurosis - 4/26/2008 1:11:11 PM   
Socrate5


Posts: 17
Joined: 4/25/2008
Status: offline 		This is an interesting topic for myself. As a trained philosopher, I believe there are some hermeneutic conflicts with the title of “slave” when used in the context of BDSM. A more appropriate description might be “servant”, but I am in the process of exploring the distinctions as it applies to the lifestyle. MastrVran is right in distinguishing the willingness of the individual when it comes to being a slave; this tension creates a hard-to-define grey area. I will post the fruit of my labor later as I am currently finishing up a final paper. When I post it I look forward to feedback from others.

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RE: Slavery Vs. Neurosis - 4/26/2008 1:22:43 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor

I read here often that a "real slave"--is one who acts, follows and obeys without question--their very being exists for the will and the pleasure of the Master---what is the line between healthy "devotion" and neurotic addiction?


I think many are co-dependent at best and I don't think much of them or their "masters".

There is a vast difference between what most do and what I consider healthy.  I consider the ideal to be someone who has achieved everything anyone could want (or some reasonable definition of classic social "success") and who then turns around and knowing they could have anything they want, chooses to serve another.

Most have bounced around from one failed and miserable relationship to another but then find balance in a power exchange relationship that works better than what they have experienced before.  So some slave who can't deal with her own life finds someone partner who can't deal with their life and so "fixes/controls/dominates" their slave/bottom/submissive.  Classic co-dependence and avoidance.

Just because you are happier than you have ever been doesn't mean you are doing well or living healthy  It is all a matter of perspective, what was your last relationship like?  Now the above isn't black and white but a continuum in shades of grey.  I know my early D/s relationship were co-dependent among other things and my current one is by far my best but I hope I am still growing and maturing.

Which is why I have rarely see those who have the most obedient submissive/slaves/bottoms as the most dominant because I think most of those in those roles are like dogs, it doesn't take much just feed them a few times, pet them on occasion, and they will run to meet you when  you come home from work, tail all wagging.  Try taming a lion and get them to do the same and I will be impressed.  That is one of those things I didn't see when I started out and I think many are blind to.

Good thing I am not opinionated eh?

< Message edited by SimplyMichael -- 4/26/2008 1:28:30 PM >

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RE: Slavery Vs. Neurosis - 4/26/2008 1:26:49 PM   
MladyHathor


Posts: 510
Joined: 4/6/2008
Status: offline 		I may not always agree, but I do read, think and ponder on Your opinions and I am glad You are--smiles.

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RE: Slavery Vs. Neurosis - 4/26/2008 2:16:13 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor

I read here often that a "real slave"--is one who acts, follows and obeys without question--their very being exists for the will and the pleasure of the Master---what is the line between healthy "devotion" and neurotic addiction?


The lack or presence of rapport being developed before the ideal of "obedience without question" is achieved as well as the lack or presence of healthy boundaries (whether established by the Master or slave) for the "obedience without question" to exist in.

I find "obedience without question" to be something created through time and trust and achieved when enough rapport is present that questions are not needed before obedience. The ideal of "You are slave therefore you must obey me without question" is a load of garbage.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 4/26/2008 2:19:05 PM >

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RE: Slavery Vs. Neurosis - 4/26/2008 3:26:38 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		I suppose in the end zone it all boils down to the individual. remember your neurosis may be my norm.  I've often commented that healthy people need to have a personal neurosis to realise they are realively normal....

I asked a man one day if he was neurotic to which he replied that he definately was not. "Why", I asked "Were you watching pigs fly outside then?" "There were no flying pigs. Your mad!" he cried. "Oh dear," I commented, "Then I was immagining I say the Police in a helocopter............."

Iron Bear
Master of Bruin Cottage
(A Victorian Lifestyle poly home)

"I judge a Man by what I see him do and not by what others tell me he does." (Captain Sir Edward Pellew of the HMS Indefatigable to Midshipman Hornblower ~ C.S. Forrester)


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RE: Slavery Vs. Neurosis - 4/26/2008 3:34:30 PM   
charmdpetKeira


Posts: 916
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline 		It has come to my attention, the difference is not in whether or not one is “real”; it is a matter of which purpose they choose to serve.
 
Some focus on the physical/material world; some on the spiritual; and others strictly the passion of serving another.
 
The only question is; have you chosen the path that will help you reach your goal?
 
k

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RE: Slavery Vs. Neurosis - 4/26/2008 3:39:09 PM   
SweetNika


Posts: 955
Joined: 4/19/2008
From: Forest Hills, Maryland
Status: offline 		I know that for me, if I trust someone I am serving completely, if I beleive they are protecing their property (me) then I will obey without question. For me that is not neurotic although I am sure some can and do perceive it as such.
 
Blessed Be,
Nika

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RE: Slavery Vs. Neurosis - 4/26/2008 3:58:25 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

I
quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetNika

I know that for me, if I trust someone I am serving completely, if I beleive they are protecing their property (me) then I will obey without question. For me that is not neurotic although I am sure some can and do perceive it as such.
 
Blessed Be,
Nika


Most of all the kajiri I know are like that too lass. I too know their strength and their vulnerability.. It's what makes them what they are.. Would that there were more of them..

Iron Bear
Master of Bruin Cottage
(A Victorian Lifestyle poly home)

"I judge a Man by what I see him do and not by what others tell me he does." (Captain Sir Edward Pellew of the HMS Indefatigable to Midshipman Hornblower ~ C.S. Forrester)


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RE: Slavery Vs. Neurosis - 4/26/2008 4:52:19 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		Juat a guess but separating obedient devotion from neurosis might best be done with a happiness check to put it in two groups.  Are you happy in service?

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RE: Slavery Vs. Neurosis - 4/26/2008 5:13:13 PM   
lally3


Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline 		i dont believe its a neurosis to want to please another person, in fact i think its a basic human function.  a dominant has a private desire to please, if they didnt they really wouldnt be offering very much.

the version of pleasing through slavery is surely just a heightened element of this human function.

i believe that my heightened desire to please stems from a childhood trying to please an unpleasable mother.  but i unhooked myself from that unhealthy situation some years back - i remain the same person i just choose now to please the pleasable.

the beauty of this lifestyle is that you can be who you are, hopefully in safe hands and be incredibly fulfilled and happy.  how is that neurotic....... i personally think it shows incredible self knowledge, inner strength and personal resource.

thats not to say that there arent neurotic slaves and subs, but ill bet there are some pretty neurotic dominants out there too and i know that most of my vanilla friends are neurotic as hell... truth the tell the human race is permanently bewildered and worried about it.  cest la vie.


< Message edited by lally3 -- 4/26/2008 5:18:15 PM >

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RE: Slavery Vs. Neurosis - 4/26/2008 5:31:21 PM   
OldBastardly1


Posts: 651
Joined: 7/22/2006
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor

I read here often that a "real slave"--is one who acts, follows and obeys without question--their very being exists for the will and the pleasure of the Master---what is the line between healthy "devotion" and neurotic addiction?


Maybe I missed something. I thought she was just asking where the line was that separated healthy devotion and neurotic addiction.
Maybe that is the fault of the tequila.


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RE: Slavery Vs. Neurosis - 4/26/2008 5:39:09 PM   
ProfJoe


Posts: 75
Joined: 6/7/2007
Status: offline 		My girl's obedience is healthy. Other slaves are neurotic. Or worse.

Just saying.

Prof Joe

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RE: Slavery Vs. Neurosis - 4/26/2008 5:48:06 PM   
christine1


Posts: 6155
Joined: 12/15/2007
From: i'm headed to HIM...
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OldBastardly1

quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor

I read here often that a "real slave"--is one who acts, follows and obeys without question--their very being exists for the will and the pleasure of the Master---what is the line between healthy "devotion" and neurotic addiction?


Maybe I missed something. I thought she was just asking where the line was that separated healthy devotion and neurotic addiction.
Maybe that is the fault of the tequila.



wtf?  you're drinking tequila and not sharing with me? 

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He is my Master, my lover, my best friend my everything.

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RE: Slavery Vs. Neurosis - 4/26/2008 5:51:56 PM   
OldBastardly1


Posts: 651
Joined: 7/22/2006
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline 		I always have a shot for you. Tarantula Azul, straight from the freezer. So smooth, there is no need for salt or lime.

But you have to come and get it, lol.

< Message edited by OldBastardly1 -- 4/26/2008 5:52:57 PM >

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RE: Slavery Vs. Neurosis - 4/26/2008 5:56:23 PM   
impossiblesub


Posts: 150
Joined: 4/20/2008
Status: offline 		I have heard that a lot of people suffer from what has been termed "pathological obedience".

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RE: Slavery Vs. Neurosis - 4/26/2008 5:58:35 PM   
christine1


Posts: 6155
Joined: 12/15/2007
From: i'm headed to HIM...
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OldBastardly1

I always have a shot for you. Tarantula Azul, straight from the freezer. So smooth, there is no need for salt or lime.

But you have to come and get it, lol.


hmmmm, black spider huh?  ok, i'll have to close my eyes and just take it! i'm always up for a new challenge hehe. (i'm on my way lol)

_____________________________

i am woman! er, godzilla! hear me roar!

http://wavcentral.com/cgi-bin/log/log.cgi?id=2856&sound=/sounds/movies/godzilla/roar.mp3


He's the "boom" overwhelming...

He is my Master, my lover, my best friend my everything.

(in reply to OldBastardly1)
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