Privacy Rights and Dating in the World of BDSM (Full Version)

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Loveisallyouneed -> Privacy Rights and Dating in the World of BDSM (4/25/2008 7:14:19 AM)

Reading through the profiles I am struck by the differences in the amount of information provided to the public.

Some write pages, and others write nothing at all.

Through most of the civilized world privacy is deemed a right. Each individual is free to decide how much of his/her life to divulge to the public, and what aspects of that life to reveal. For example, most of the world does not seem to discuss sexual activities with anyone but their sexual partner; major life events are shared with family and friends and maybe the announcement section in the local paper (births, marriages and deaths).

Dating online (with the intent to form a Long-Term Relationship) creates novel challenges to privacy, in that one is trying to attract a mate with whom one would share all aspects of life, while recognizing that one is essentially talking with strangers.

This means sharing information about ourselves with strangers.

I don't suppose there are many of us who would list his/her sexual kinks for a stranger in a public location.

And yet, that is what a number of people are doing here.

And many of them include pictures.

On the other end of the scale (not counting lurkers) are those who provide the minimum amount of information needed to launch a profile.

The questions are:

- how much of one's privacy must be revealed to the public through profiles, journals and posts ... and how much should be left for private correspondence or face-to-face meetings?

- how does one handle questions which, if answered, would reveal more of one's private life than one is comfortable revealing (given the degree of familiarity between the person asking and the person asked)? If someone asks a specific question on an issue one does not wish to reveal, and for which "no comment" would be revealing, how does one retain his/her privacy?

- how much respect do you have for the privacy of others? Do you assume someone retains information to be deceitful, or do you assume the information is retained as an act of privacy?

- any other thoughts you'd care to share about privacy are also welcome.



GreedyTop -> RE: Privacy Rights and Dating in the World of BDSM (4/25/2008 7:18:42 AM)

1) however much the individual is comfortable with
2)however much and in whatever way the individual is comfortable with
3) I personally have respect for anothers privacy.  If they choose not to share some info with me that is their right.  Just as I have the right to decide if I choose to continue to correspond with them based on the amount of info they have shared. As far as deceitful, that depends on what my instinct tells me. 



Evility -> RE: Privacy Rights and Dating in the World of BDSM (4/25/2008 7:25:20 AM)

how much of one's privacy must be revealed to the public through profiles, journals and posts ... and how much should be left for private correspondence or face-to-face meetings?

I don't think there is a standard you can apply here. People can and will provide as much or as little information as they feel comfortable providing or feel is necessary.

how much respect do you have for the privacy of others? Do you assume someone retains information to be deceitful, or do you assume the information is retained as an act of privacy?

If I have no reason to be suspicious, then I generally am not suspicious. Then again I am one of those folks who does not post a public picture so I would naturally take that side. There are folks who plainly say in their profiles that if you don't have a picture on your profile you are trying to hide something. I suppose they are correct but that doesn't mean that it is with devious intent. That comment in itself is telling. It tells me that they would not be a compatible match for me.





subtee -> RE: Privacy Rights and Dating in the World of BDSM (4/25/2008 7:27:41 AM)

quote:

- how much of one's privacy must be revealed to the public through profiles, journals and posts ... and how much should be left for private correspondence or face-to-face meetings?


I don't think the words "must" and "should" are applicable, as these are very individual decisions. The only "must," it seems to me, is that we must follow TOS. If you are asking what would be optimal disclosure for attracting others, again it is individual, I believe, and what is posted will attract some and not others. As, perhaps, it should be.

quote:

- how does one handle questions which, if answered, would reveal more of one's private life than one is comfortable revealing (given the degree of familiarity between the person asking and the person asked)? If someone asks a specific question on an issue one does not wish to reveal, and for which "no comment" would be revealing, how does one retain his/her privacy?


If a simple, "I'm not comfortable answering that right now" would reveal what one wouldn't want revealed, then I would suggest deflection with humor or a return question, such as "what do you think about that?"

quote:

- how much respect do you have for the privacy of others? Do you assume someone retains information to be deceitful, or do you assume the information is retained as an act of privacy?


I don't think I tend to read into retained information. Perhaps an example would help. However, profiles with little to no information are not interesting to me. If they are devoid of details for privacy but that fact is explained in a CM with additional information, I would understand.




RCdc -> RE: Privacy Rights and Dating in the World of BDSM (4/25/2008 7:29:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed

- how much of one's privacy must be revealed to the public through profiles, journals and posts ... and how much should be left for private correspondence or face-to-face meetings?


As much as one is comfortable with.

quote:

- how does one handle questions which, if answered, would reveal more of one's private life than one is comfortable revealing (given the degree of familiarity between the person asking and the person asked)? If someone asks a specific question on an issue one does not wish to reveal, and for which "no comment" would be revealing, how does one retain his/her privacy?


Not sure what context you mean.  On a message board?  At a munch?  At private meeting?

quote:

- how much respect do you have for the privacy of others? Do you assume someone retains information to be deceitful, or do you assume the information is retained as an act of privacy?


I value peoples privacy - but yes there are certain questions that if refused to answer could be assumed as deceitful or at least, hiding something.

the.dark.



RavenMuse -> RE: Privacy Rights and Dating in the World of BDSM (4/25/2008 7:31:16 AM)

First off, some of the questions are worded to elicit answers speaking of what ALL should do... I don't speak for anyone other than Me and Mine (Even then whilst I can tell her what she will do she may have her own opinion as to what she believes she should do!). So I'm only answering from a personal perspective.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed
- how much of one's privacy must be revealed to the public through profiles, journals and posts ... and how much should be left for private correspondence or face-to-face meetings?


I live My life fairly openly, I have nothing to hide. Every day events are regularly cited as examples in posts, commented on in blogs etc. If someone has a relivant question then they are likely to get a full and frank answer.... revelance depending on the why of our communication.

quote:

- how does one handle questions which, if answered, would reveal more of one's private life than one is comfortable revealing (given the degree of familiarity between the person asking and the person asked)? If someone asks a specific question on an issue one does not wish to reveal, and for which "no comment" would be revealing, how does one retain his/her privacy?


If you have a line drawn as to how far you are willing to be open with that person, responding the same way to ALL crossings of that line doesn't tell them anything except which side of the line that topic falls on.

quote:

- how much respect do you have for the privacy of others? Do you assume someone retains information to be deceitful, or do you assume the information is retained as an act of privacy?


A hard one to answer as it is very contextual. A random stranger I have no expectations of, they will talk about some things, not about others and I really don't care or speculate as to why. Someone approaching Me with view to some potential involvement, if I am asking a question it is because *I* consider the answer relevant, if that breaches a privacy limit with them then likely We are not compatable.

With My Own girl, privacy is something she has from other people, not from Me.




Loveisallyouneed -> RE: Privacy Rights and Dating in the World of BDSM (4/25/2008 7:45:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed

- how does one handle questions which, if answered, would reveal more of one's private life than one is comfortable revealing (given the degree of familiarity between the person asking and the person asked)? If someone asks a specific question on an issue one does not wish to reveal, and for which "no comment" would be revealing, how does one retain his/her privacy?


Not sure what context you mean.  On a message board?  At a munch?  At private meeting?


From "Dating online ..." to "...launch the profile" describes the context within which my questions were asked.

However, no one need feel constrained by that context.

quote:


quote:

- how much respect do you have for the privacy of others? Do you assume someone retains information to be deceitful, or do you assume the information is retained as an act of privacy?


I value peoples privacy - but yes there are certain questions that if refused to answer could be assumed as deceitful or at least, hiding something.

 
Can you be more specific about which questions?

As for "hiding something", isn't that the essence of privacy: the right to hide information about ourselves?



RCdc -> RE: Privacy Rights and Dating in the World of BDSM (4/25/2008 8:02:41 AM)

I don't necessarily feel 'no comment' is revealing persay.  But then I wouldn't use it personally and have never had that given.  If I was asked a question I was not comfortable answering at that time,  I would inform the person the question was too intimate or personal for the amount of time I had known them and that I would answer in time if a relationship developed.

quote:

Can you be more specific about which questions?

As for "hiding something", isn't that the essence of privacy: the right to hide information about ourselves?


If I asked, for example for information regarding relationship status.  If I suspected someone was married or had been and I asked and they refused to answer, or I asked for a home contact number and was refused with no real reason, then I would assume something was deceitful.  These are questions for long term relationship considerations, not friendships.  I do not deny people deserve privacy, but if it was to touch my life in that importance, then these are questions that should be answered clearly and not 'hidden'.
 
the.dark.



LadyPact -> RE: Privacy Rights and Dating in the World of BDSM (4/25/2008 8:29:13 AM)

I don't wish to hijack the thread on a minuscule point, but I'm going to disagree with the 'home phone number' thing.  Unless I am at the point where revealing My actual address has come, I don't give anyone My home phone.  It's too easy to trace back to My actual location, and there are certain stages where I am not ready for that yet.

That, I suppose, leads Me to answering the questions of the original.  I don't do online dating, per se.  This makes it very hard for Me to answer the actual questions.  I'm not big on the journal thing, or the profile thing, because I am much more interested in having a a conversation, rather than a monologue. 

On these boards, I consider Myself to be pretty much of an open book.  That said, of course, within reason for any female to be on the internet.  My life and My experiences are rather open and out there.  As to personal, physical information, let's face it.  I'm no fool.

That privacy level can, and does change when the new facets of the real world come into play.  I'm more than happy to prove who I am, ensure any bottom that I play with feel secure that anything I have told them can be backed up.  (Again, the one exception to this being My home address.)  There's been more than one instance of where I have, happily, given references, shown My ID, allowed people time and space to do research so that they can feel they have confidence in Me.  In My opinion, this shouldn't be a problem for anyone who would hope to Top.

For more intimate relationships, I admit to being somewhat guarded.  This is something I have been working on for some time.  I do not give My inner self away so easily.  These things take time, in My humble opinion.  I do not share My scars so easily.

I hope this, in some way, has answered the questions.  To the.dark., My best to Darcy.



Loveisallyouneed -> RE: Privacy Rights and Dating in the World of BDSM (4/25/2008 8:34:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I don't necessarily feel 'no comment' is revealing persay.  But then I wouldn't use it personally and have never had that given.  If I was asked a question I was not comfortable answering at that time,  I would inform the person the question was too intimate or personal for the amount of time I had known them and that I would answer in time if a relationship developed.

 
"no comment" was merely a generic device. It can take many forms. Your answer is one form, Subtee's responses represent different forms.
 
The generic question I had in mind was "how much do you weigh?". Some people provide that information to the public, some do not, some will answer the question privately, others will not.
 
For this question, a non-answer is as good as an admission to being abnormally large (given the cultural pressures to prefer slender/fit).
 
Conceivably, this might be one of the first questions asked, so how does someone retain their privacy when asked this sort of question?

quote:
If I asked, for example for information regarding relationship status.  If I suspected someone was married or had been and I asked and they refused to answer, or I asked for a home contact number and was refused with no real reason, then I would assume something was deceitful.  These are questions for long term relationship considerations, not friendships.  I do not deny people deserve privacy, but if it was to touch my life in that importance, then these are questions that should be answered clearly and not 'hidden'.

 
I've had ladies ask for my yahoo messenger ID in their first letters (and not just from the obvious spammers).
 
One asked me for a phone number after something like five messages.
 
In all cases I didn't know them well enough to agree.
 
As for married folk, I was approached by a woman whose husband didn't know. I refused, pointing out that anyone willing to cheat a spouse has no credibility. Her profile now states her husband knows.
 
Assuming for the sake of argument that isn't true, is she being deceitful to protect her privacy, or deceitful to convince a man to enter a relationship he would not otherwise enter if he had all the facts?
 
Does her right to privacy sanction her use of deceit?



RCdc -> RE: Privacy Rights and Dating in the World of BDSM (4/25/2008 8:42:47 AM)

Greetings Lady Pact.
Just to clarify, I am not advocating just throwing out phone numbers to anyone, nor holding it as an expectation, but as Loveisallyouneed asked about ltrs, it made a difference.  I would not reach the phone number stage without having the address -  that would be a long way along.  But if I had met and a ltr was evolving, refusal of an address or home number would be suspect to me and when privacy touches me, I would question the persons integrity.  I wouldn't push the issue, simply tell them that I could not continue without it and say goodbye.
 
That said, my experience of online dating is limited, seeing as Darcy is the only ltr of intimacy I have ever had whom I met online.  But in this situation, Darcy has never held back and neither have I, but then, we never met on a dating site or with the intention of dating.
 
I will pass on your regards to Master, Lady Pact.  I know he always appriciates your posts and viewpoint - and I send my regard to you and yours.
 
the.dark.



subtee -> RE: Privacy Rights and Dating in the World of BDSM (4/25/2008 8:48:29 AM)

quote:

The generic question I had in mind was "how much do you weigh?". Some people provide that information to the public, some do not, some will answer the question privately, others will not.
 
For this question, a non-answer is as good as an admission to being abnormally large (given the cultural pressures to prefer slender/fit).

 
What? Is this your opinion or what you assume most/all believe. I don't have my weight listed. I'm not large. If it seemed to be important I wouldn't be digging the Dom anyway.

quote:

As for married folk, I was approached by a woman whose husband didn't know. I refused, pointing out that anyone willing to cheat a spouse has no credibility. Her profile now states her husband knows.
 
Assuming for the sake of argument that isn't true, is she being deceitful to protect her privacy, or deceitful to convince a man to enter a relationship he would not otherwise enter if he had all the facts?
 
Does her right to privacy sanction her use of deceit?

 
There is just no way to know her motives. Wanting to assume the best in folks, I would suggest that there may be circumstances in which "deceit" would be understandable.




DesFIP -> RE: Privacy Rights and Dating in the World of BDSM (4/25/2008 8:52:47 AM)

What I say here is more private than what I say living in a small town. No one who reads my words here knows where I live, or who I am. I am anonymous.

In a small town, word gets about. People hear about most stuff. So in my real life, I have to be more guarded than in this anonymous one.



RCdc -> RE: Privacy Rights and Dating in the World of BDSM (4/25/2008 8:57:21 AM)

As I said above, I don't advocate giving out numbers to all or immediately, it does depend on peoples comfort zones.  But if I had met someone a few times and a relationship was developing, I would ask for numbers.  Everyone moves along at their own speeds, it is just about finding someone compatable with you and not pressing, pushing or expecting.  If I give my number to someone, I would do so without expecting it back.  However, I would want it in time.  I wouldn't expect it, but if I asked and it was not given -  then I would immediately know I was not compatable with that person, respect their privacy and depart.

quote:

Assuming for the sake of argument that isn't true, is she being deceitful to protect her privacy, or deceitful to convince a man to enter a relationship he would not otherwise enter if he had all the facts?

Does her right to privacy sanction her use of deceit?


Yes she is being deceitful to protect her privacy.  She is also deceitful to the person when not providing all the facts.  She has the right to privacy and the freedom to lie, but that doesn't make it the right particularly when it crosses over to anothers life who are forming opinions of mis-information.
 
the.dark.



Loveisallyouneed -> RE: Privacy Rights and Dating in the World of BDSM (4/25/2008 9:04:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

quote:

The generic question I had in mind was "how much do you weigh?". Some people provide that information to the public, some do not, some will answer the question privately, others will not.

For this question, a non-answer is as good as an admission to being abnormally large (given the cultural pressures to prefer slender/fit).


What? Is this your opinion or what you assume most/all believe. I don't have my weight listed. I'm not large. If it seemed to be important I wouldn't be digging the Dom anyway.


Nonetheless, for some time now obesity is reported as a "pandemic" in America and through its cultural influence Canada as well.
 
One need only count the number of obese 'damsels-in-distress'/'love interests' one sees in the movies, or obese models shown on the covers of grocery store magazines to see what the 'ideal' weight should be.



RCdc -> RE: Privacy Rights and Dating in the World of BDSM (4/25/2008 9:05:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed

"no comment" was merely a generic device. It can take many forms. Your answer is one form, Subtee's responses represent different forms.
 
The generic question I had in mind was "how much do you weigh?". Some people provide that information to the public, some do not, some will answer the question privately, others will not.
 
For this question, a non-answer is as good as an admission to being abnormally large (given the cultural pressures to prefer slender/fit).
 
Conceivably, this might be one of the first questions asked, so how does someone retain their privacy when asked this sort of question?


I don't know how to answer that question, because I have never had a problem worrying about my weight.  I am a take me as you find me person.  I know people do have a difficult with their looks or whatever, however it isn;t something I can comprehend.
 
But then I don't judge people on their weight either so again, I do not understand the need to be private about it.
But then I do not understand the need to lie or omission anyway - in the same breath I can see it's place in someones life.
 
the.dark.



LadyPact -> RE: Privacy Rights and Dating in the World of BDSM (4/25/2008 9:06:08 AM)

Yes, in some instances, privacy is an obscure thing.  This is why I tend to see a difference between online and meatlife.  They are two different animals, I think.  Not easily compared one to the other.



Leatherist -> RE: Privacy Rights and Dating in the World of BDSM (4/25/2008 9:06:20 AM)

The benefits outwiegh the risks to me-I just don't show a photo to casual browsers.



LadyPact -> RE: Privacy Rights and Dating in the World of BDSM (4/25/2008 9:08:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

The benefits outwiegh the risks to me-I just don't show a photo to casual browsers.


I mean no offense, but this might change if you were female.



subtee -> RE: Privacy Rights and Dating in the World of BDSM (4/25/2008 9:11:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

quote:

The generic question I had in mind was "how much do you weigh?". Some people provide that information to the public, some do not, some will answer the question privately, others will not.

For this question, a non-answer is as good as an admission to being abnormally large (given the cultural pressures to prefer slender/fit).


What? Is this your opinion or what you assume most/all believe. I don't have my weight listed. I'm not large. If it seemed to be important I wouldn't be digging the Dom anyway.


Nonetheless, for some time now obesity is reported as a "pandemic" in America and through its cultural influence Canada as well.
 
One need only count the number of obese 'damsels-in-distress'/'love interests' one sees in the movies, or obese models shown on the covers of grocery store magazines to see what the 'ideal' weight should be.



I didn't say anything about obesity in America or Canada, or the cultural "ideal" as perpetrated on us by fashion/entertainment industries. I was asking if you or (you believe) the world at large (no pun intended) assume that no comment or no answer to weight questions indicates "an admission to being abnormally large?"

Uh oh, am I getting sucked into a vortex here?

[Edited for grammar]



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