How did i handle this and what could i do better? (Full Version)

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hissweetbella -> How did i handle this and what could i do better? (4/18/2008 2:00:42 PM)

This afternoon, something was said by my Sir which i feel was an opportunity to learn and grow as a couple, but, sadly, i don't feel that happened.  Short story is that there was an incident the last time i visited where i felt i needed to say something and he didn't want to hear it and proceded to silence me by repeatedly pulling me and holding me while kissing me so that i couldn't speak.  i became frustrated, tried repeatedly to tell him how i felt and ended up pulling away and eventually excusing myself from the room for a while.

Today, he mentioned that it told him a lot about my limits and that he learned a great deal about my reactions.  i asked him to share what he had learned, but he gave only the vaguest of answers.  Eventually, it came to light that he had been upset at the time... something i knew then, but he had emphatically denied.  He said the incident brought up flashbacks from a previous relationship, but says he cannot tell me details about what it specifically reminded him of because he didn't want to dwell on past negative feelings, only that it was a control issue. 

He also said he didn't want to tell me because he didn't want me to change because of it.  He believes submissives inherently change their behaviors to suit the dominant, and he doesn't want to be the cause of me changing how i react to him.

My response was that i felt confused because he has always been so open and accepting of my past issues, and i felt disconnected from him because it felt like he didn't trust me.  i told him i didn't want the kind of relationship where the partners couldn't talk with each other and didn't deal with things openly, and that he could tell me anything at all and i would still love him.  His response was simply, "I know."

i am confused.  If a person has a particular trigger that makes them remember a particularly negative thing, why is it wrong to want to know so that it can be avoided?  i have a dear friend who associates the sound of windchimes with being raped.  When she visits my home, the windchimes come down so she doesn't have to hear them.  i just don't see where it would be any different with my Sir.  Am i completely off base in my thinking?

Is there something more or different i could have said that would perhaps have opened up the communication? 

Also, could anyone shed any light on just what kind of limits my response showed him?  i hate to think i added to the problem. 



batshalom -> RE: How did i handle this and what could i do better? (4/18/2008 2:11:12 PM)

There's no way for any of us to tell you what was going on in his head. It seems to me to simply accept what he's saying and let the relationship flow - you can't demand a person do the things you want when you want even in a vanilla relationship, and a D/s one is no different. Give him time.



daddysliloneds -> RE: How did i handle this and what could i do better? (4/18/2008 2:16:25 PM)

it's my opinion, that your behavior showed him that you're a very emotionally reactive girl, and that even when you 'knew' he was trying to silence you,  you persisted on acting like a child who had to get in the last word, AND you chose to walk away from him, go into another room, and thereby taking 100% control of yourself, him and the situation away from him...

so, the negative trigger that i could see him seeing is that you submit when you want to and you're in control the rest of the time;, which means you have no need for him to be your dominant/master, and he's just topping you, if that makes sense.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: How did i handle this and what could i do better? (4/18/2008 2:20:03 PM)

Eliminating the trigger isn't the goal here.  It's not your responsibility to make him happy and ok all the time and the more you try to make it so, the more disruptive it will be.

Seems like you both have baggage, you both have some not so well tuned communication skills, and you're both putting a lot of unrealistic expectations and insecurities on the other.



hissweetbella -> RE: How did i handle this and what could i do better? (4/18/2008 2:28:33 PM)

From a thread i posted the other day about this same incident... (sorry i don't know how to do the link but the title was "honor, integrity, and being manipulated")

"Sir has begun to manipulate (his word) things so that i am not always able to voice my concerns or thoughts.  For example, if something is bothering me and i try to speak with him about it - very gently and quietly and NOT in an accusing way - right in the middle of a word or sentence he will grab me and kiss me, physically holding me in place if i try to pull away to finish my sentence and continue to repeat as often as i try to talk about the subject.  It doesn't feel good to have physical intimacy used like that to shut me up.  Or, he will turn it around on me, even to the point of accusing me of misrepresenting myself or playing games.  It is enough to make me want to pull out my hair at times!  i try to steer the conversation back on a path of direct communication, but he's much more practiced at this game than i am or ever want to be." 

This wasn't a case of not wanting or needing his dominance. 

--edited to add name of thread i referenced



SteelofUtah -> RE: How did i handle this and what could i do better? (4/18/2008 2:31:25 PM)

Sounds like a case of if she doesn't say it then it won't be real.

That sucks

Steel



lateralist1 -> RE: How did i handle this and what could i do better? (4/18/2008 2:33:49 PM)

It makes perfect sense to me daddysliloneds.
What worries me is that a Dominant would have dealt with the situation there and then with confidence and clear communication not hidden his feelings of frustration because his sub would not relinquish control to him. He dominated she would not submit.
Not a lot he can do except explain to her clearly what his needs were. I've been in situations where I have had to submit due to force or fear of force. It wasn't submission it was abuse. So hissweetbella do you want to submit to him? He has obviously been in this situation before and it went bad on him. It looks as if he doesn't want to lose you but your lack of submission is causing him pain. By the way I'm not judging I have empathy for you both.



daddysliloneds -> RE: How did i handle this and what could i do better? (4/18/2008 2:42:34 PM)

oh believe me, i understand what you're saying as well.  thing is, she admitted to 'knowing 'why he was trying to shut her up and she intentionally resisted and persisted until she got her way.  what i don't understand is why it would make a difference if he 'told her' in words what she said she already 'knew'. 



hissweetbella -> RE: How did i handle this and what could i do better? (4/18/2008 2:43:01 PM)

How is it a lack of submission?  He has told me from day one that i am always to come to him with any concerns or worries, and that he will always listen to what i have to say... he may not act on it but he will always listen.  i asked him at the time if he was open to listening to me and he said yes, then halfway through a sentence he used kissing me and holding me in a kiss to silence me.  i tried to tell him it didn't feel right several times, but eventually felt i had to pull away and asked permission to go take a shower, which he granted.  i know i'm new to the D/s part of BDSM, but how is that a lack of submission?



daddysliloneds -> RE: How did i handle this and what could i do better? (4/18/2008 2:49:42 PM)

you didn't submit to his passive-agressive, avoidance is the key, behavior? 



Lordandmaster -> RE: How did i handle this and what could i do better? (4/18/2008 2:53:41 PM)

I doubt it.  When he's ready, he'll tell you what was going on inside his head.  There's no way that you can force him to do so on your timetable, and you shouldn't try, either.

By the same token, if he doesn't want to hear something you have to say at a particular moment, then defer and do things his way.  Eventually he'll have to give you an opportunity to speak, or else you're really going to have a communication problem.  But that's not the same thing as an opportunity to speak whenever you feel like it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hissweetbella

Is there something more or different i could have said that would perhaps have opened up the communication?



mbes -> RE: How did i handle this and what could i do better? (4/18/2008 2:54:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hissweetbella

How is it a lack of submission? He has told me from day one that i am always to come to him with any concerns or worries, and that he will always listen to what i have to say... he may not act on it but he will always listen. i asked him at the time if he was open to listening to me and he said yes, then halfway through a sentence he used kissing me and holding me in a kiss to silence me. i tried to tell him it didn't feel right several times, but eventually felt i had to pull away and asked permission to go take a shower, which he granted. i know i'm new to the D/s part of BDSM, but how is that a lack of submission?

You knew he wanted you to stop talking. You chose not to stop. You didn't submit to his wishes.
Whether his wish was reasonable in your relationship is another question. None here can answer that. Some must have freedom to speak at all times, and that's not inherently bad. Some don't want to hear everything at all times. That's not inherently bad either. It's just something that needs to be worked out.



Leatherist -> RE: How did i handle this and what could i do better? (4/18/2008 3:46:39 PM)

He sees a thing in you that bothers him.

I would ponder it a bit.......and think that he fears to invoke it by saying so.

Rather than feeling put off by him trying to handle his baggage on his own-perhaps you might just want to think back on what you were doing when it happened.

And avoid doing it? He's trying to exert some emotional self control. Can you support his decision?



marieToo -> RE: How did i handle this and what could i do better? (4/18/2008 4:03:50 PM)

Astute.



KnightofMists -> RE: How did i handle this and what could i do better? (4/18/2008 4:11:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hissweetbella

He also said he didn't want to tell me because he didn't want me to change because of it.  He believes submissives inherently change their behaviors to suit the dominant, and he doesn't want to be the cause of me changing how i react to him.



Sooooooooooo submissive's shouldn't change their behaviors to suit the Dominant?!!

I know that my slaves change their behaviors to suit me... I am very much ok with that!



lronitulstahp -> RE: How did i handle this and what could i do better? (4/18/2008 4:24:40 PM)

      Is this the first D/s relationship for either of you?  It sounds as if your Sir read some info that he thought "sounded" right.
quote:

 He also said he didn't want to tell me because he didn't want me to change because of it.  He believes submissives inherently change their behaviors to suit the dominant, and he doesn't want to be the cause of me changing how i react to him. 

and is using it as some sort of dogma, when in truth...you are not any other sub(or gf) that he's had in the past...and he isn't anyone else you've dealt with in the past. 
 Behaviour modification can be a very useful tool in D/s...and it has nothing to do with you changing or becoming someone else...but about helping you realize more about yourself.  Delving deeper into your psyche as a means of gradually unearthing the more actualized "you".  It's a journey, and it's emotionally trying.  Imagine, thogh, with hard work from both of you that the end result can be breathtaking...



hopelessfool -> RE: How did i handle this and what could i do better? (4/18/2008 4:34:50 PM)

This is what Im getting from the conversation:

She wants to tell him she has a worry or concern. He is then shuting her up blocking off communication and only adding more worry and concern to the situation. If shes allowed to speak freely hes playing dirty tricks just so he doesnt have to hear it and its not okay.

No one in any relationship is a mind reader. If shes doign behavior that bothers him, he needs to step up say "s type" this action bothers me. He doesnt have to give a reason he doesnt have to tell his life story and everything about it. Just what the action is. If eye rolling bothers the living crap out of you and you dont tell me and just let me do it. Im going to think It doesnt bother you you havnt given me any reason to think it does. You cant correct an invisable problem.

OP I think you made the right choice to walk away when things got to a point you couldnt handle any more to cool off instead of allowing yourself to say something you would later regret. I would ask to have a phone conversation, or a conversation where you both sit at a table where he cant grab you to silence you. And ask to talk about what your concerns is. If he says no he says no Its his right. If its something that you feel or you know will be a problem wait a couple days and ask again. If/ when he does sit down calmly say, when you and I are talking and you grab me and kiss me to shup me up it bothers me. It makes me feel ..... I understand that the topic was a problem for you and I dont want to press the issue. If you would think about it, You dont have to tell me why it is a problem just what IT is so I can advoid doing it to be better pleasing to you.  If he chooses to tell you No I cant tell you just yet. Your going to have to grin and bear it. If he does choose tell you thank Him for allowing the conversation and for trusting you. I hope things work out.



Leatherist -> RE: How did i handle this and what could i do better? (4/18/2008 4:37:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: hissweetbella

He also said he didn't want to tell me because he didn't want me to change because of it.  He believes submissives inherently change their behaviors to suit the dominant, and he doesn't want to be the cause of me changing how i react to him.



Sooooooooooo submissive's shouldn't change their behaviors to suit the Dominant?!!

I know that my slaves change their behaviors to suit me... I am very much ok with that!


I think the biggest issue I have with a lot of women is thier impatience. They want intimacy and they want it NOW.

I'm not a hamburger. I'll get there when I am damned good and ready-and not an instant sooner.



CalifChick -> RE: How did i handle this and what could i do better? (4/18/2008 4:38:43 PM)

I don't really see this incident as any different than what you told us before.  You know he's passive-aggressive.  Have you decided if you can live with it or not? 

Cali




xxblushesxx -> RE: How did i handle this and what could i do better? (4/18/2008 4:48:20 PM)

Perhaps she's trying to figure out whether what is happening is normal for other couples or not.
It's not ok for him not to listen to you, whichever side of the slash you're on.
Everyone needs to be heard and understood.
You're not.
Do you think hope and love will change him?
I don't know if it will or not.
But I do have my suspicions.
Wishing you love and hope and happiness,



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