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RE: Corruption in the UK pt 2 - 4/11/2008 5:44:41 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		RL i think he could yet be in deep trouble for supplying the helicopter to Simon Mann. I cant see how someone from such a politically, and well connected family, could have thought he was just doing someone a favour.

You`re welcome to the link, we are not all dragons you know.

(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Corruption in the UK pt 2 - 4/11/2008 6:00:41 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		It seems to me, that seeks has a point of view that is hard to ignore.
 
A private company offering a perk to a Prince, to sell munitions ... that's just smooth business here in the States. Now, the government doing this with taxpayers money ... that would be corruption, but a private company ... this is nothing more than a vastly escallated version of a free steak dinner for dad, if he buys his next Mother's day gift at Bed. Bath & Beyond.

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Corruption in the UK pt 2 - 4/11/2008 12:17:42 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

It seems to me, that seeks has a point of view that is hard to ignore.
 
A private company offering a perk to a Prince, to sell munitions ... that's just smooth business here in the States. Now, the government doing this with taxpayers money ... that would be corruption, but a private company ... this is nothing more than a vastly escallated version of a free steak dinner for dad, if he buys his next Mother's day gift at Bed. Bath & Beyond.


No Trespassing.

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Corruption in the UK pt 2 - 4/11/2008 12:31:25 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		BAE and its business is closely tied to the Government. It certainly wouldnt make the profits it does without government help and contacts. It is not a case of a firm going out and doing its own deals, as in many instances the deals are brokered at high level, and BAE is just the supplier. Even if it were soley a private company, it still breached international laws on fraud and corruption.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Corruption in the UK pt 2 - 4/11/2008 12:34:37 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Winning is only part of the story; a sense of fair play is equally as important.

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Corruption in the UK pt 2 - 4/11/2008 12:44:39 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		The problem is you have countries where bribes are seen as normal, dealing with countries were bribes are unacceptable. The difference here is we call them agents and pay the proverbial 10%.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Corruption in the UK pt 2 - 4/11/2008 4:31:29 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Winning is only part of the story; a sense of fair play is equally as important.
What do you mean by fair play you Manchester xxxxx If I typed now what I really think I would be banned.

Its the Saudi method of doing business.
If the Brits dont do it some else will. I've demonstrated that fact to you.
Why do you think the French were so opposed to intervention in Iraq. 'Cos they were up to their ears in business contracts and wanted to get their just rewards.

Get off your arse and stop relying on the taxpayer to provide  your wagecheck and then tell us all about fair play.
You and all the UK quangocrats and local/national  government  employed layabouts give me the screaming ab dabs.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Corruption in the UK pt 2 - 4/11/2008 4:35:52 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		And how's retirement treating you, Seeks  ?

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Corruption in the UK pt 2 - 4/11/2008 4:38:10 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Seeks, so what do you think about taxpayers money pouring into BAE on ever over budget contracts, with BAE being a prefered bidder ? Do you feel it`s okay to use our money trading with a company proved to use corrupt practices ?

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Corruption in the UK pt 2 - 4/11/2008 5:08:03 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
And how's retirement treating you, Seeks  ?
Kitten: I had to have a quick peek at your profile because my short term memory is non existant.

You look so nice I have decided to give  you first refusal for the post of wench of Seek's bed chamber..
Yes I know you dont deserve the honour but I am a forgiving person at heart  My first thought is always for my fellow man or woman as the case may be.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Corruption in the UK pt 2 - 4/11/2008 5:14:13 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		You know, the array of possible comebacks to your bedpan joke would have made my riposte quota, but I'm trying to be kind and not to sink... to... that... level... argh!

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Corruption in the UK pt 2 - 4/11/2008 5:16:50 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Kitten: I take it the answer is no then.
Just think you could leave the US and come back to the UK and give me French lessons.
I am a willing student.
You know it makes sense.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 4/11/2008 5:18:00 PM >

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Corruption in the UK pt 2 - 4/11/2008 5:23:15 PM   
Raechard


Posts: 3513
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		Ethical foreign policy? Where did that go? Is our military equipment so shit that we have to bribe people to buy it? I understand in these situations you have to weigh up job losses etc. but I think people that use those kind of arguments forget about the negative effects on our international reputation this will have.

We may never win another Eurovision song contest again!

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Corruption in the UK pt 2 - 4/12/2008 2:36:15 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeks referring to NG said...
Get off your arse and stop relying on the taxpayer to provide  your wagecheck and then tell us all about fair play.
I apologize for this quote. Its too strong and too personal..

I was trying to criticicize the large numbers of UK "public service" jobs  that contribute little other than to keep the economy ticking over in a non productive way.

I didnt go the right way about it.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Corruption in the UK pt 2 - 4/12/2008 5:32:34 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Winning is only part of the story; a sense of fair play is equally as important.
What do you mean by fair play you Manchester xxxxx If I typed now what I really think I would be banned.

Its the Saudi method of doing business.
If the Brits dont do it some else will. I've demonstrated that fact to you.
Why do you think the French were so opposed to intervention in Iraq. 'Cos they were up to their ears in business contracts and wanted to get their just rewards.

Get off your arse and stop relying on the taxpayer to provide  your wagecheck and then tell us all about fair play.
You and all the UK quangocrats and local/national  government  employed layabouts give me the screaming ab dabs.


Its not the Saudi way of doing business - its the way business is done everywhere. You do whatever it takes to seize the opportunity, make that sale, get that profit - you dont know where the next one is coming from, and no sales = no income = bankruptcy.

And "fair play"? Sadly, because the general experience has bred cynicism, anyone claiming to be honest and honorable in their dealings is doubly suspected, and may as well join the game and drop that claim.

Most of "whatever it takes" is pretty tame - entertainment, promotional offers and the like. Some is more edgy - bullshit and outright lies. Some is illegal - market fixing in all its variations, brown paper envelopes changing hands and so on. The key to success lies all too often in employing "whatever it takes" in ways sufficiently subtle that no one catches on.

Owning a small business, I tried the "fair play" approach for two years - it nearly bankrupted me, because everyone will take advantage of such an approach - its seen as a weakness for others to exploit. Since joining in the game - the one whereby one assumes everyone is a predator and one shows one's teeth back, things have improved. Its not easy - I'm a nice, compassionate person who finds it difficult to exploit others mercilessly and turn a blind eye to their predicaments - but its the only way to survive.

We do entertainment, promotional offers and the like. We do occasionally employ good old fashioned bullshit and the odd white lie doesnt hurt. If I could fix the market and get away with it I would - I'm out for me, just like everyone else. I've been asked to my face for a brown paper envelope and declined - but was I tempted? Yes, but I was in my "fair play" stage back then. Asked again now? Who knows? It would depend what was at stake.

Its a rough old world and extinction awaits anyone who doesnt evolve to meet the environment.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Corruption in the UK pt 2 - 4/12/2008 5:45:53 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Precisely, so I take it you agree that to re open the enquiry into BAe is not the sensible thing to do ?

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Corruption in the UK pt 2 - 4/12/2008 5:51:45 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

Ethical foreign policy? Where did that go? Is our military equipment so shit that we have to bribe people to buy it?



It's not so much that our military equipment is rubbish; in fact, over the years we've proven to be more than proficient in this regard.

In the Middle East, that's how business is done - you slip someone a back-hander, or you build a few factories and train local people or something similar. It's fair to say that if our government didn't do it, someone else would.

The mark-up on British planes and support systems is anything up to 50% with Saudi, UAE and Kuwait, and they're buying Hawks and Harriers from us, which are basically 1970s designs with a few modifications here and there. The money from these sales has enabled BAE to get involved in Joint Strike Fighter and Euro-Fighter - so you can understand how lucrative these deals are.

The issue comes down to one of national interest versus ethics - principles versus practicalities.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 4/12/2008 5:56:18 AM >

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Corruption in the UK pt 2 - 4/12/2008 5:57:12 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

I didnt go the right way about it.



That's alright, Seeks; you're harmless really.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Corruption in the UK pt 2 - 4/12/2008 6:51:47 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Precisely, so I take it you agree that to re open the enquiry into BAe is not the sensible thing to do ?


In the mercenary spirit of commerce - depends what I'm going to get out of it either way.

Its not sensible - but it has to happen. The shame of all this sort of thing though is that rarely does Sir Humphrey and the rest get their come uppance. Remember Matrix Churchill?

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Corruption in the UK pt 2 - 4/12/2008 7:26:37 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		I will be surprised if much comes of this enquiry.
My guess is , and I hope I am right, that all the correct noises will be made in public, but very little will actually happen.
If a rigorous enquiry does take place then the PC brigade are even more out of touch than even I imagined them to be.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 40
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