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Playing outside your primary relationship - 4/6/2008 4:56:54 AM   
Hisfurandfeather


Posts: 3
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		A while back, personal disrespect for many members off a group I belonged to caused me to reconsider my own position within that group.  Due to the nature of conversations and actions taken by some,  I made the choice to withdraw, rather than to be associated with a group that was beginning to display attitudes and values (or lack of) that were conflicting with my own.  I live comfortably thru the term “acceptance”.  
Acceptance does not mean I a should participate and it does not mean that I need approve.
It DOES mean that when others choose to participate in any activity that I do not approve of,  I expect the right and opportunity to not only leave,  but it should be expected that I may choose to never return.
I am familiar with a situation that has put a long term relationship at a very high risk of ever returning to the level that it once was. 
I feel this important enough to provide some advice to others in hopes that some anger,hurt and disappointment, humility, shame and regret and embarrassment can be avoided by others.
This advice is meant for ALL parties that might consider bdsm, kink,  swing or sexual activities with someone that is in primary relationship with another.
To both members of the primary relationship:
--Stick to your own rules, both personal and mutually agreed to within your relationship.
--Publicly play using the same standards that you adhere to within your relationship.
--If either of you would like to play publicly with another in a manner that is out of the limits for what you may do together publicly,  it had should be discussed first amoung yourselves.
--To rephrase:  Do not play with the third in ways that you have agreed to keep private within your own relationship.
--If your agreement is truly based on  "Don’t Ask,  Don’t tell, I don't want to know", Don’t f’kn do it in front of the other!
--
If either of you would like to play with another, with or without the presence or inclusion of the other, discuss all the rules and guidelines that are to be followed in advance.   AGREE TO THE RULES AND DO NOT BREAK THEM.
Advice for the third party that has been invited, allowed or encouraged to play with a member of a primary relationship.
--If you are encouraged to play with a couple as a third, but recognize some hesitation from one member,  Don’t Go There! Unless the scene is all about humility and you are ok with that.
--Understand the agreements and rules set between the couple.  
--Understand their relationship and expectations of each other.   This can NOT be done thru conversations with ½ of the primary couple.
--If you are playing as a bottom, slave, slut or submissive,  seek approval from the bottom, slave, slut or submissive in the primary relationship.  (I would think that most Dom/tops would require that of both.)  If there isn’t one clearly identified, my suggestion would  be to get on your knees for both of them.
--DO not play with anyone that insists that the other is aware of  and accepts bdsm or sexual play outside the relationship.   If that is indeed the case it is YOUR responsibility to confirm it with the other.
--If you are told that the other 1/2 knows and approves of play outside the relationship,  confirm that with the other.  In a truly honest relationship there should be know problem with that.   At least,   thank the other for sharing!
--If it is suggested that you venture into play areas that you have not seen the other couple participate in,  question why.  It may be so that you can provide pleasure in ways the partner,  you may also be and experimental rat. 
--If you are playing as a Master, Dominant, Top or switch, do not cross play limits set by either your or the others parther.   If you are playing with one that has crosses your own/partners limits  crossing them should be discussed with your partner FIRST. 
exception:  you are one of those Master/Dom that believes you can do what/where/when with whom anything you desire and that your partner must accept it or scoot.
Bottom line is Truth, honesty and communication are important in all relationships.  Lies, deciept, manipulation will tear it apart.
I am open to listening to any comments,  both those that disagree or agree with any statements I have made above.    If I do not reply,  please do not feel ignored,  I am just absorbing!
Thanks for listening!

The actions of those that surround me,   are a reflection of myself.    

It is my choice to decide who I stand shoulder to shoulder with,  who i stand above and who i get on my knees for.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Playing outside your primary relationship - 4/6/2008 6:03:37 AM   
jmslilbytch


Posts: 26
Joined: 3/12/2007
Status: offline 		Fantastic post. I can't add anything to this, as it is how I think also. To me, being open and honest, especially in dealing with the situations that you are discussing is what really counts. Without it, I don't feel that anything else could exist, as I would be left feeling not only betrayed, but that everything I felt or believed between us was a lie.
I hope that the LTR you were talking about can be mended. I have been there before, wouldn't ever want to be there again.

(in reply to Hisfurandfeather)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Playing outside your primary relationship - 4/6/2008 6:35:31 AM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Nice to see that you "Get it." Having an open relationship does not mean you can do whatever you like: it just means the rules are different. Not that they are absent.

(in reply to jmslilbytch)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Playing outside your primary relationship - 4/6/2008 7:54:11 AM   
twistedtight1


Posts: 24
Joined: 4/16/2005
Status: offline 		This was a past  relationship for me..it will be truly amazing  how many people will be faced  with this same  issue..and i  thank  the creator that the Master  with the "black  hat"  rode  in for the rescue..i like the part  of the considered "other" out  of protocol  contacts the  other sub...and  all are included...this thread should be  a   creed to those true to the lifestyle..and to those who are living the lifestyle with smoke in  the eyes....good luck  and walk in beauty....slub  t...ps..great  job on this thread

(in reply to Hisfurandfeather)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Playing outside your primary relationship - 4/6/2008 8:14:46 AM   
atursvcMaam


Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline 		Great post.  thank you for sharing it.

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to twistedtight1)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Playing outside your primary relationship - 4/6/2008 8:40:14 AM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		When i was very new at being my Sirs primary, it made me a bit uncomfortable to have my Sir play with other girls. My Sir and i did considerable talking about this situation , and as i became more secure in my Sirs regard and love, i became more comfortable with my Sir playing with other girls. Of course it did help that my Sir had rules - no playing when i wasn't there, unless i was comfortable with it.

My Sir is honorable, so i have no problem with him playing with other girls. He has played with girls that i personally didn't care for, and i have become close to a couple of his girls that in vanilla life, i probably wouldn't have.

Great post - especially the part about everyone in the relationship should be aware of the proposed liason.

(in reply to atursvcMaam)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Playing outside your primary relationship - 4/6/2008 11:45:21 AM   
softpjOS


Posts: 398
Joined: 6/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hisfurandfeather

A while back, personal disrespect for many members off a group I belonged to caused me to reconsider my own position within that group.  Due to the nature of conversations and actions taken by some,  I made the choice to withdraw, rather than to be associated with a group that was beginning to display attitudes and values (or lack of) that were conflicting with my own.  I live comfortably thru the term “acceptance”.  
Acceptance does not mean I a should participate and it does not mean that I need approve.
It DOES mean that when others choose to participate in any activity that I do not approve of,  I expect the right and opportunity to not only leave,  but it should be expected that I may choose to never return.


The actions of those that surround me,   are a reflection of myself.    

It is my choice to decide who I stand shoulder to shoulder with,  who i stand above and who i get on my knees for.


A most excellent post!  One many people could stand to read over and over until they GET IT. 
 
It all boils down to one thing,  frequently forgotten, respect for ALL parties within a relationship. 
 
I found myself in a somewhat similar situation not too long ago.  Mistress and i were invited to an event at a friends home.  The event included activity that dangerously came close to crossing a limit for me.  When it came out that this particular activity would be occuring, I expressed my concerns to Mistress.  She acknowledged them and yet the person that was hosting the event kept (as i saw it) contacting Mistress about the event and went as far as to tell Her that maybe She could tell me we were going somewhere else and just "show up" there.... also suggested out and out lying to me about "having" to go because She promised to take care of something for them.  Excuse me?? 
 
No, this person did not know it was a limit for me; however, They DID know i had expressed an extreme discomfort at events that would be going on and instead of dropping it, continued to (again as i saw it) badger both of us about attending. 
 
Knowing our relationship, knowing the subject/activity in question was creating extreme discomfort (and not the good kind), to continue to try to persuade one party to "force" the other party to attend was down right disrespectful, in my opinion, to both of us. 
 
All of this occured during a serious bout of sub drop, it created a very serious mental conflict within me and caused me to question not only myself, my limits but my Mistress's acceptance of my limits and how She "saw" me.  Please note i said I questioned how She saw me, as She in no way felt the same way.  
 
Those wishing to include others in activities should be very upfront about the details, and respect the wishes of everyone involved because dishonesty, badgering, and scoffing at limits of others only proves you lack any honor and are due NO respect yourself. 

The thoughts you expressed concerning playing with others goes much further then play, and i thank you for posting!

pj 
 
 

(in reply to Hisfurandfeather)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Playing outside your primary relationship - 4/6/2008 11:49:07 AM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		my advice to the people in the primary relationship playing outside...

--don't lie to eachother, i have seen this happen hundred's of different ways, from thegirl saying she was going to play with another Dom in one manner and doing something completely different and it coming back to biting them in the butt to the Dom say he was going to meet a potential playmate and end up playing with them and thinking this was ok because "he's the Dom"...
--don't lie to playmates, this is more in the expectation realms...it is hard being the "other person" even when your playmate's partner knows about you, it is infinately harder if you do not know what to expect or when to expect it...
--playmate does not equal escort service, just because you play with someone on ocassion does not mean that they are available at the drop of a hat when your primary does not want to do something...
--"playmates" have need's too...and if they choose to get them met elsewhere, unless there is a specific agreement that they not (and it should be said at the begining if there is), they shouldn't be "punished" or "denied" for having their needs met...afterall they are playmates not people in a relationship with ya'll...that is something different...
--even if there is a "you can do whatever you want to do, i just don't want to see it" policy...if it is going to be an on going thing, it is helpful for the playmate to meet the primary partner in a vanilla situation and hear it from their mouth...

take care
chelle, who has been "the other woman, with permission" quite a few times...


_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to kiwisub12)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Playing outside your primary relationship - 4/6/2008 2:39:47 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Not bad.

To me it all boils down to respect- respect the people you make commitments with, respect the commitments you make for yourself, and respect others by informing them fully.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Playing outside your primary relationship - 4/6/2008 2:42:25 PM   
littlebitxxx


Posts: 732
Status: offline 		I agree with all the posters thus far...and great topic, OP!  Having an open relationship MUST be built on trust and communication, and mutual respect for the other.  It's all well and fun to play outside but your primary partner is the one you come home to.  You don't piss in your own backyard, so to speak.  They are your PRIMARY partner for a reason.  Casual partners are just that, casual, but like chellekitty says they are not backups or an escort service to be available at the drop of a hat.  Not very respectful that.  People are people and are deserving of the communication and honesty that should go with playing outside.

_____________________________

There is no such thing as can't unless it is followed by yet

It is the meaningless little acts that become meaningful in the doing.

The people that mind don't matter and the people that matter don't mind.

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Playing outside your primary relationship - 4/6/2008 2:59:55 PM   
Sirsinini


Posts: 172
Joined: 11/13/2007
Status: offline 		Great post!! 
 
Sir and I are in a primary relationship which plays with others.
It is his rules or their is nothing. He can detect (his radar is exquistie) the hint of dishonest from miles away

Prior to meeting him, he used to set up meetings for others...to meet their kinks and fantasies with several of his friends in the "lifestyle" in the area.
It was there he learned to weed through the folk who were sincere and knew how to follow the rules. He refined his radar well.

I am grateful neither he nor I play away from each other.  It is together or not at all. He made those rules based on my past and his standards of ownership. 
 
one happy inini  ~~~~~~~~ >>> 
 
 

_____________________________


The man who always seeks to be the best for you is
the only man truly worthy of being called Sir.


~~ Sir's devoted property
~~ whose profile is hidden on purpose



(in reply to littlebitxxx)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Playing outside your primary relationship - 4/6/2008 3:14:09 PM   
Hiswifeon7707


Posts: 23
Joined: 3/10/2008
Status: offline 		OP - thank you, thank you - excellent post. my husband and i are just wadding into the "play with others" waters.
your offering is appreciated greatly.

(in reply to Sirsinini)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Playing outside your primary relationship - 4/6/2008 3:33:06 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		I think so too... you know, it's almsot a "Cliffs Notes" on Dossie Easton's "The Ethical Slut."


(in reply to Hiswifeon7707)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Playing outside your primary relationship - 4/6/2008 4:13:37 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Breaching trust and respect is easy and like the mother of some Scotish chapo once commented to her son as he was planning to wage war on the English, "It takes very little tpo set the heather a fire, but it takes a long, long time to put it out." So it is trying to rebuild trust and respect if it even can be rebuilt.

Iron Bear
Master of Bruin Cottage
(A Victorian Lifestyle poly home)

"I judge a Man by what I see him do and not by what others tell me he does." (Captain Sir Edward Pellew of the HMS Indefatigable to Midshipman Hornblower ~ C.S. Forrester)


(in reply to bipolarber)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Playing outside your primary relationship - 4/6/2008 6:08:08 PM   
smilezz


Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline 		...and being that I have run into this numerous times: Just because one primary partner plays outside of the relationship does not mean the other one does.

No matter how up front and honest you may be......unfortunately there are people that just assume.



~smilezz~

_____________________________

=It's not my fault that when I was a baby I was dropped in a box of Glitter & I have been shinin' ever since=

�*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,-:* �

(in reply to Hisfurandfeather)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Playing outside your primary relationship - 4/6/2008 6:48:12 PM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

I think so too... you know, it's almsot a "Cliffs Notes" on Dossie Easton's "The Ethical Slut."




she's a pretty smart lady, i have read The Ethical Slut, and totally recomend it to anyone looking to get into and already into, or even just wanting to know more about consensual non-monogamy...it helps a lot...so does talking to others who have been through what you are going through, thats why these boards are so popular...so, make buddies with the poly people - there is a board just for that...

and btw, Dossie is not the only author of the book, Catherine A Liszt is the co-author (who i just leared is a pseudonym of Janet Hardy...woohoo wikipedia...i couldn't remember how to spell her last name...)

anywho...take care
chelle


_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to bipolarber)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Playing outside your primary relationship - 4/6/2008 9:00:11 PM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I read this on the other site last week. I still wonder what caused this. Could you email me and let me know? I don't think this is something that you just 'happened' to think about.

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Playing outside your primary relationship - 4/7/2008 1:53:50 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

It is my choice to decide who I stand shoulder to shoulder with, who i stand above and who i get on my knees for.


His,

I had to read this post twice to get the feel of what your saying. It needed to be said and hope many take the time to ponder your words.

CP

(in reply to Hisfurandfeather)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Playing outside your primary relationship - 4/7/2008 5:41:00 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I happened to think the post, and the additional comments that followed, were rather good.  It sounded very much like the things that My husband and I came up with when we started talking about the possibility that we might want to engage in actiivties that would involve other people.  We came up with the simple term of 'house rules'.  In other words, our house, our rules for how we would handle things in our primary relationship.  The agreements that we made with each other of what was acceptable, what wasn't, and how we would deal with each other and with others. 

Of course, everyone's 'house rules' will vary a bit, due to the people involved and certain particulars that they want to include.  Still, I think it's a smart move to discuss this between the primary partners before including someone else, and then again when that someone else enters the picture.  Since it's how we did things, and it's worked well, I would highly recommend it to anyone.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to CelticPrince)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Playing outside your primary relationship - 4/7/2008 6:43:20 AM   
onthenosetone


Posts: 118
Joined: 7/22/2006
Status: offline 		My Ma'am has had other partners more or less from day 1, about 10 years ish ago I was working away from home, feeling a little left out and insecure, we were on the phone she was humiliating me and telling me about what they'd got up to that day, I guess she could tell from the tone of my voice I was feeling funny, she put the phone down on me, ten minutes later she called back, she had immediately finished the other relationship, from that day to this i've known 100% I'm No1, I've never been insecure again, humiliated yes,god yes, jealous but in a good way yes, denied, yes again, but never again frightened/scared/worried......it's about love, trust, security and understanding......well for us it is.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 20
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