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Real_Trouble -> RE: The culture of Distrust (3/30/2008 5:25:17 PM)
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Where to begin?
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If someone wanted to study the causes for the disintegration of social cohesion in western society, one would need to travel no further than this place.
Could you point me to where the integration of this occurred in the first place? Was it during the imperialist period in Europe when we were stepping all over non-Europeans across the globe? Perhaps around WWII when we firebombed Dresden and dropped two nukes on Japan? How about the crusades, when we failed to even pretend to coexist peacefully with any major religion not named Catholicism?
We've never played nice with others, and if you look at things like the villification of german and Japanese Americans, or discrimination against blacks, or the inability of political parties to get along from the outset of this country, and so on, you'd find we have never played nice internally either.
It's the same shit, different day.
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It is rather obvious the vast majority support and encourage a culture of fraud and deceit in pursuit of selfish goals.
Point at a country that doesn't; deceit is a human trait. Most children learn to lie quite well by age 8. This is not a result of any particular culture, it is a result of having humans involved at all.
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As it is the vast majority who approve of this paradigm, it follows that as they behave here, so do they behave in a like manner whenever they can get away with it: whenever they are anonymous enough to take advantage of another's trust.
And thus they further the erosion of trust in our society.
Again, see my comments above - we are no more or less trusting or trustworthy than we have ever been. Which is to say too trusting, and not trustworthy at all. Or, to quote Reagan, the smart strategy is "Trust but Verify".
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I don't suppose anyone considers the consequences: how trust is essential to any society and that the betrayal of that trust through deceit and fraud merely makes it harder to find trusting and trustworthy people in the future.
I disagree; some level of trust (such as that we aren't going to murder everyone tomorrow, and fuck, there are examples of people even screwing that up repeatedly) is necessary, but not much, and it gets breached sometimes. Society moves on. Trust is not essential beyond a basic few agreements. I mean, China is still in one piece, and their government is murdering dissenters in Tibet, picking fights with Taiwan, and screening their populace from the vast majority of content on the internet while serving explicit pornographic websites off government servers! In terms of trust, I think the U.S. and Canada are doing pretty well, compared to others.
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For as each trusting individual is betrayed, that person learns not to trust others in the future.
See my point about children learning to lie at an early age. Anyone who trusts blindly is a fool.
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For it is not just one betrayal. The vast majority are participating in a culture of deceit and fraud and there are many betrayals waiting for each of us who participate in places like this.
And always have been. And always will be. This is human nature.
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It takes a strong person to be betrayed and not join in the culture of deceipt and fraud...
Or someone incapable of learning.
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...and as the vast majority demonstrate, our society does not believe in raising citizens with the strength of character needed to resist that temptation.
No, our society encourages a culture of deceit and begins indoctrination at a young age.
Name me a society that has. Seriously, go back through history, and find me a society where the vast majority of citizens never (or very rarely) lied, were not engaged in deceit, and were completely up front and honest with each other at all times.
I'll be waiting.
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And that is why so many adults practice deceit and fraud whenever they believe it is to their advantage.
And as they practice deceit and fraud, so their example encourages others to participate in a culture of deceit and fraud.
Just keep in mind that it is not just this site, or just the internet where these 'qualities' can be found.
Correct, it is anywhere humans exist. Partially, this is a result of something like the Prisoners' Dilemma (of game theory fame). It's almost always the case that we encounter situations where trusting each other is the best option mutually, but that when someone breaks that trust, it is to their advantage. Thus, rational players are forced into a defensive posture, which is non-optimal from a group perspective, but prevents them from constantly being fucked over by others and being far and away screwed, instead of just average, in terms of how well off they are.
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Yes, we all like to bitch about corrupt and deceitful politicians. But keep in mind that these politicians are only displaying the same qualities the vast majority hold to be true: trust exists so you can take advantage of it and betray it when you are in a position to exploit it to your profit.
Caveat Emptor.
On this, we both agree. What I would suggest, however, is that rather than ranting about how bad the world is, accept it. People are not going to change on some macro level - this just does not happen. Rather, learn how the world works, and learn to function within it as best you can in a way that makes you happy. I find that truly understanding people tends to be incredibly advantageous; I don't expect trust, and finding people who are honest is a pleasant surprise for me.
I feel like you are angry in particular at a situation that is, actually, universal. This is just how things are, and they could be a hell of a lot worse, all things considered.
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